One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags

**kcmoxtractor** · 02-23-11

I hate soaking grain. It wastes water during the soak
and rinse and takes a good bit of effort to shake the water
out of a 5g bucket full of hydrated wbs. This thread is
intended to be a guide for quick prep of wbs for jar or
mycobags.

First, you should take into account that all wbs is not created
equal. There are probably hundreds of different mixes, some
of which have more starchy grains, some do not. I buy my wbs
from walshit,

Thirty lbs of finch seed

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbsfinch.jpg

to forty lbs of premium year round bird food.

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbsyearround.jpg

When I was using jars, 365 turned me onto the "magic ratio"
for jars, which is 1 cup wbs, 1/2 cup water. no soak, no strain
no rinse, no problem!

It works with either the year
round bird food or finch seed. Be sure to shake the jars as soon
as you can after the pressure on your PC drops, the pieces of
grain on the bottom of the jar have more moisture and will burst
if left overnight without a shake.

With bags, the shake isn't necessary. The shape of a bag makes
it so that almost all of the grain sits in water during cooking.

Here is a shot of how much wbs to water-

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbsh20.jpg

Here's a couple shots of what they look like when they come out of the cooker-

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbs0hour.jpg

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbs0hourmacro.jpg

And after 24 hours-

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbs24hour.jpg

This bag was inoculated with WBS slurry and here they are after
five days. On the left is a one step prep bag, on the right is a bag
prepared by soak/rinse.

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbssidebyside.jpg

One step prep bag

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbs1step.jpg

Soak/rinse bag

One step WBS prep for jars and mycobags-wbssoak.jpg

**dfar** · 02-23-11

I like the soak because theoretically it gives a chance for endospores to germinate (right environment/enough time) therefore, in theory, lowering contam rates.

However you can't argue with your results and this looks like a very nice way to get WBS ready in a pinch. Similar to the old school Rye grain techs.

I might even try this tonight!!

nice post

**Nobody** · 02-23-11

So you just add the water, mix well and PC? You don't even rinse the grain? I've heard this is possible, it is even mentioned in the MMGG. But I've never heard how it works. This is as easy as it gets!

**Ben Dover** · 02-23-11

Now this makes me want to go out and find some WBS. Been wanting to try something besides corn and this looks like the ticket

Thanks kc

Nobody, all you should need to do is load and PC. No need to mix well until after the PC run.

**mojo** · 02-23-11

I tried this today...seems to be a good tek...and soooo simple...I like simple...

)

mojo

**usagolden** · 02-23-11

way to innovate...again!

have you tried anything like this with corn yet?

**mydarling** · 02-24-11

nice easy method kc, thanks for sharing!

btw do you want this in magic fungi? it's in edibles.

**kcmoxtractor** · 02-24-11

i guess it could be used for either

i have not tried it with corn yet, last bag
of feed corn i bought was infested with pests.

@nobody- no rinse at all, just load it up and go!

**Mike-420** · 02-24-11

Have these bags produced shrooms yet or are these bags still growing?

**kcmoxtractor** · 02-24-11

Originally Posted by Mike-420

Have these bags produced shrooms yet or are these bags still growing?

These bags are just grain spawn
I don't fruit from straight grain.

**extrememetal43** · 02-24-11

Very cool man!

**Mike-420** · 02-24-11

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

These bags are just grain spawn
I don't fruit from straight grain.

I guess what i ment is have u mixed the grain with anything else and produced shrooms ? or are they still colonizing the Grain?

**Nobody** · 02-24-11

I'm pretty sure this couldn't be replicated w/ corn. There is way too much starch that has to be removed by rinsing. The water content would also be tough to nail down, and I don't think the kernels would soften up enough anyway w/o soaking or simmering.

This tek makes popcorn prep look like rocket science!

**Freaky** · 02-27-11

I'm glad to see others using a no soak wbs prep method. It's the only way I do my wbs jars:

http://mycotopia.net/forums/wild-bir...bird-seed.html

**Ben Dover** · 02-27-11

Made some jars and bags last night and they turned out awesome!

One piece of advice, don't use more than 1.5 cups of dry WBS per quart jar.

A few I tried 2 cups and there was no room left in the jar after PCing

**StheNC** · 02-28-11

When using oven roaster bags, should I wrap it in a towel to PC or will it be OK just sitting on the supplied rack? And given that I'll be using oven bags, can I just bake the bag in the oven or will it loose too much moisture?

**roc** · 02-28-11

Originally Posted by dfar

I like the soak because theoretically it gives a chance for endospores to germinate (right environment/enough time) therefore, in theory, lowering contam rates.

However you can't argue with your results and this looks like a very nice way to get WBS ready in a pinch. Similar to the old school Rye grain techs.

I might even try this tonight!!

nice post

I must be getting old... but I still soak to germinate the nasties and many years of experience has shown me little on no contams. I do see 4-6 flushes on the average.

I tried the mix with proper ratio of water years back and I got way too many contams.

Good luck!
Numbers tell all... please report back how many jars go foul (bacteria smell) during incubation and how many flushes you get before they contam out.

**usagolden** · 03-01-11

i made up a few bags last night
worked seemingly well
will report back with the numbers, roc

**kcmoxtractor** · 03-01-11

Originally Posted by roc

I must be getting old... but I still soak to germinate the nasties and many years of experience has shown me little on no contams. I do see 4-6 flushes on the average.

I tried the mix with proper ratio of water years back and I got way too many contams.

Good luck!
Numbers tell all... please report back how many jars go foul (bacteria smell) during incubation and how many flushes you get before they contam out.

I've been using this method for over a year with jars, and
if you follow proper sterilization procedure there are no
problems. (Don't put the weight on the PC as soon as
it makes steam, give it 5-7 minutes of solidly escaping steam)

I haven't had any jars that went bacterial other than the
random contam, which seems unavoidable. As for how many
flushes, I'm not particularly keen on keeping records (evidence),
sorry, but I have gotten multiple flushes from projects spawned
with this grain. I think ambient conditions such as the house
and area that you live in play a role as well.

**warriorsoul** · 03-01-11

Originally Posted by usagolden

way to innovate...again!

have you tried anything like this with corn yet?

Yes, it works fine with whole corn as long as you get the moisture level correct.

You can do it right in the jar, just fill the jar slightly less than halfway with corn than add water until it you have only about one layer of kernels still above the water, than pc. don't forget to shake well. Adding a pinch of sawdust or coir/verm beforehand can help suck up any extra moisture.

**roc** · 03-01-11

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

I've been using this method for over a year with jars, and
if you follow proper sterilization procedure there are no
problems. (Don't put the weight on the PC as soon as
it makes steam, give it 5-7 minutes of solidly escaping steam)

I haven't had any jars that went bacterial other than the
random contam, which seems unavoidable. As for how many
flushes, I'm not particularly keen on keeping records (evidence),
sorry, but I have gotten multiple flushes from projects spawned
with this grain. I think ambient conditions such as the house
and area that you live in play a role as well.

I am glad to hear of your success!

From a purely scientific approach it is a well known fact that most all grains are loaded with endospores that are not destroyed by the heat of being pc'd. These little guys must be germinated and then they are destroyed by the pc process.
Ambient conditions need be applied to source of grains and how they have been stored and shipped. Most of the nasties come from the field the grain was grown in and the open air exposure of harvest.

Not to say I want try your method in the future...

**kocos** · 03-02-11

Ill have to give this a go. Iam used to the soak, simmer, rinse, strain, and dry method which literally takes hours to acomplish not to mention all the wasted water from the rinsing process.
Thanks KC!!

**Ethical** · 03-13-11

Thanks for this awesome writeup, shall be doing some no-soak WBS bags following your tutorial today!

Do you PC for 2 hours?

**5-MeO-DMT** · 03-15-11

KC great write up!

I was wondering what do you do for your lids? poly fill hole? tyvek? silicone port?

**kcmoxtractor** · 04-05-11

Originally Posted by roc

I must be getting old... but I still soak to germinate the nasties and many years of experience has shown me little on no contams. I do see 4-6 flushes on the average.

Still no contams (and several hundred experiments since posting),
and I have realized something else as well...
Since the moisture ratio is right, why not just soak in the jar
or bag? If you want to soak, just add the wbs/water to your
jar/bag and let it sit overnight to germinate nasties. It's really
just about the ratio of grain to water being proper for cube growth.

Originally Posted by roc

I am glad to hear of your success!

From a purely scientific approach it is a well known fact that most all grains are loaded with endospores that are not destroyed by the heat of being pc'd. These little guys must be germinated and then they are destroyed by the pc process.
Ambient conditions need be applied to source of grains and how they have been stored and shipped. Most of the nasties come from the field the grain was grown in and the open air exposure of harvest.

Not to say I want try your method in the future...

I would say (and scientific literature agrees) that is inaccurate from a vocabulary standpoint.
PCing grains is sterilizing, which kills endospores if given proper
time and temperature. Time can vary, but according to all published
media (and my experience) reguarding the subject 15 PSI is sufficient
to kill bacterial endospores. I believe (and have seen since I got an
AA sterilizer that doesn't spit water out the weight) that if you let your
sterilizer/PC run for long enough, those spores would be killed.
Reference page 11 from Ron Atlas' Handbook of Microbiological Media.

IMO, an overnight soak is employing one of the principles of tyndallization
along with sterilization temperatures.

Originally Posted by 5-MeO-DMT

I was wondering what do you do for your lids? poly fill hole? tyvek? silicone port?

Poly

Originally Posted by Ethical

Do you PC for 2 hours?

Yes, for grain jars I pc for 2hrs @ 15psi, 90 mins @ 20psi. For bags, 2hrs @ 20.

**roc** · 04-05-11

Thanks for the update... I think you have this figured out and will try your technique.

Sounds good to me!

**isynesthesiai** · 04-10-11

just to add something...on pg 45 of the stamets mushroom cultivator he talks about adding the water to the grain then autoclaving. no soaking of the grain prior.

**roc** · 04-10-11

Originally Posted by isynesthesiai

just to add something...on pg 45 of the stamets mushroom cultivator he talks about adding the water to the grain then autoclaving. no soaking of the grain prior.

I don't compare my pressure cooker to his autoclave...