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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 761
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:01 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use rue when I do not have caapi. Rue is cheaper too. But I like caapi better.

I usually reduce the whole thing down to 100-200 ml. I can take that down in 1 or 2 gulps.

Being sick is a part of the experience, but not always. I have found that you have to work your way up to a "strong" dose over time. Its also not a good idea to drink much water before you drink its also. I usually stop all fluids 2 hours before drinking the brew. I keep some OJ or pedialite handy for the second half of the experience. I only drink fluids then. And even then I sip very slowly. If you get a case of the backdoor/frountdoor purges you should dry to rehydrate yourself very slowly after things slow down, just be careful to follow the MOAI precautions. Dont drink coffee afterwards, I did it once and got a splitting headache.

Just take your time. You will get there. I have had better luck with vinegar than lemon juice also. The vinegar seems to boil off during the final reduction. The stuff I made with lemon juice made me sicker. I use 25 ml white vinegar per 500ml of distilled water during the extraction. It works for me.


"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 14113
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:11 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think you'll find everyone is quite different but all roads lead to the same destination.
leprachaun swore by eating buttered toast to kick his trip into high gear,
roo likes to cut his fluids back,
me i sip apple juice constantly.
eating anything makes me hurl.
i can't stand vinegar, roo prefers it.
etc.
you'll have to find your own way by trial-and-error, too.
i think caapi has a warmer, pleasantness to it that rue lacks, proly a few extra chemicals in there subtly altering the trip
but rue will still deliver the DMT trip ,
just with a bit more of an edge.
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:56 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right-o. I still have a lot of reading to do as well. First brew will be with 3 grams rue, 5 grams mimosa to test the waters. I'll stick to the original lemon juice formula and from there we will see. If I acquire a digi cam before then(hopefully will) I'm going to try and document the process, both for mycotopia and my own reference. Off to the archives I go. ;)
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 763
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:57 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats true. Its your medicine and only yours! If you went to S.America you would find that every shaman does it different. Some will use chaliponga some avoid it like the plague, some just use caapi etc. I have been doing some serious digging on the varios admixtures added to the caapi and its endless.

The bread thing helps to keep my stomach calm. I eat a single slice after chugging Mimosa and it helps.

Here is a good read on admixtures...




Biodynamic Constituents in Ayahuasca Admixture Plants: An Uninvestigated Folk Pharmacopoeia

DENNIS J. MCKENNA, L. E. LUNA, AND G. N. TOWERS

From Ethnobotany Evolution of a Discipline. ISBN 0-931146-28-3. Copyright 1995 by Dioscorides Press.


From 1960 to 1990 scientific knowledge of the botany and chemistry of plant hallucinogens has expanded enormously. This has been accomplished through the co-operative efforts of ethnobotanists, working to collect and identify the source-plants utilized by aboriginal peoples, and phytochemists, who have isolated and characterised the biodynamic constituents responsible for these properties (Schultes 1970; Schultes and Hofmann 1980). The number of higher plant species is estimated at between 400,000 and 800,000; of these, only an insignificant number-somewhat fewer than 100-are known to be exploited as hallucinogens, and fewer than 20 of these species may be described as major (Schultes and Hofmann 1980).

Nowhere else in the world has the knowledge and use of endemic hallucinogenic plants developed to the extent found in the western part of the Amazon basin of South America. And of various hallucinogens utilized by indigenous populations in that region, none is as interesting or as complex botanically, chemically, or ethnographically as the hallucinogenic beverage known variously as ayahuasca, caapi, or yage. Far from being simply" a hallucinogenic plant or preparation, ayahuasca (Quechua for "vine of the soul occupies an integral position in mestizo folk medicine.

Contemporary use of ayahuasca in Amazonian mestizo populations appears to be an amalgam of diverse tribal traditions. The large urban settlements have become melting pots; people of many different cultural backgrounds have migrated to these centres in search of employment in the lumber, petroleum, and other resource-based industries, bringing with them tribal traditions and belief systems (usually syncretically fused with Christianity due to prior contact with missionaries). The cultural background of these migrant labourers often extends to a knowledge of the medicinal plants valued in their own culture; over the years this drug-plant lore derived from diverse sources has gradually diffused through the larger mestizo society and become assimilated into mestizo folk medicine. This ethnomedical tradition is unique to the mestizo social class, although it incorporates elements of its diverse tribal origins.

This process of cultural assimilation has occurred over the same period of time in which the antecedents of mestizo folk medicine have disintegrated or disappeared from most tribal societies. As a result, mestizo folk medicine, as it is practiced in urban centres of the Amazon, is a living system of traditional medicine based on the ethnomedical lore of many cultures; in many cases these centres are the only places where such knowledge has been preserved. Hence it is important, even urgent, that mestizo folk medicine and the plants that form its basis be studied by investigators with backgrounds in medicine, pharmacology, phytochemistry, and botany while the opportunity still exists. This chapter presents phytochemical and ethnobotanical information on approximately fifty genera of medicinal plants utilized as ayahuasca admixtures in contemporary mestizo ethnomedicine.

Ethnomedical, Botanical, and Pharmacological Aspects of Ayahuasca

THE ROLE OF THE AYAHUASQUERO IN MESTIZO FOLK MEDICINE

In contemporary countercultural circles in Western society, hallucinogens are employed idiosyncratically; that is, they are usually self-prescribed and the individual consuming the drug does so outside the context of any magical, ritual, or metaphysical belief systems designed to accommodate the phenomenology of the drug experience. By contrast, the use of ayahuasca in mestizo folk medicine always takes place within a ritual and therapeutic context. Dispensation of the drug and the progress of the intoxication is under the control of the ayahuasquero, who uses various techniques, including singing, whistling, blowing of tobacco smoke, and making passes over the patient's body, to influence the content and course of his(1) patient's drug experience. By this means the set and setting of the ayahuasca experience is carefully controlled and manipulated by the ayahuasquero, and there is usually a specific purpose for consuming this drug-for divination, to discover the cause of an illness, or to communicate with the spirit world.

In traditional cultures, the boundaries between religion, magic, and medicine are not clearly delineated; the function of the ayahuasquero or traditional healer amalgamates the Western roles of priest, doctor, and psychotherapist; illness may be precipitated by physical, psychological, or supernatural causes, or a combination of these, and all are amenable to treatment with the methods available to the ayahuasquero. In this sense the trend in modern medicine toward "holistic" therapies is not that different from the therapeutic methods practiced by the traditional healer. Both proceed from the recognition that mind and body are an integrated unit, and that the most effective therapies are those directed at improving both physical and mental health. Thus it is not surprising that ayahuasca, which profoundly affects both the mind and the body, and affords access to and a certain degree of manipulation of [real or imagined] supernatural dimensions, should occupy such a prominent position in the pharmacopoeia of Indian and mestizo folk medicine.

The ayahuasquero employs ayahuasca as a diagnostic and therapeutic tool to uncover the causes of illness, rather than as a palliative for specific ailments. Through the interpretation of his own or his patient's visions, the ayahuasquero feels he is able to divine the source of the illness or misfortune which has precipitated the patient's visit; he is then able to recommend appropriate remedies. In some cases this may require the neutralisation of malevolent supernatural forces directed to the patient by a sorcerer or brujo, and in other instances it may entail pharmacological intervention involving the use of various medicinal plants. In most instances, both magical and medicinal remedies will be employed. This use of ayahuasca in contemporary mestizo folk medicine has been previously described (Dobkin de Rios 1970,1972).

Besides functioning as an important diagnostic tool in the medical practice of the ayahuasquero, use of the drug is also an intrinsic part of his shamanic training. As in most shamanic traditions, the apprentice ayahuasquero must undergo an initiatory period of training. During this time, which lasts for a minimum of six months but may extend for several years (depending on the degree of power he wishes to acquire), the ayahuasquero consumes ayahuasca frequently while adhering to a strict diet in which no salt, sugar, fat, alcoholic or cold beverages may be consumed; sexual abstinence is also a requirement. During this initiatory period the ayahuasquero acquires the magical songs, objects, and helping spirits which he will later use in curing ceremonies; he also learns the properties and uses of numerous medicinal plants, often by consuming them in the form of admixtures to ayahuasca. The assertion is nearly universal among ayahuasqueros that this shamanic knowledge is transmitted directly by ayahuasca and other "plant-teachers"; it is not acquired through instruction by an elder ayahuasquero or other human teacher. Luna (1984) has provided a detailed account of the initiatory training and practices of ayahuasqueros in Iquitos, Peru (Luna 1984,1986,1992).

The system of ethnomedicine practiced by the mestizo healer can in some sense be regarded as an alternative health-care system. The urban mestizo who is poor, barred by economic factors from all but the barest access to health-care based on Western medicine, looks to the ayahuasquero and his magical and botanical remedies for medical, psychiatric, and spiritual support. Although the health-care system of the ayahuasquero incorporates magical, religious, and psychotherapeutic elements, it also is largely based on pharmacology because of its reliance on numerous biodynamic plants. In that respect it is more akin to Western medicine than to other shamanic, quasi-medical systems of traditional healing.

BOTANY, CHEMlSTRY, AND PHARMACOLOGY OF AYAHUASCA

Botanical sources of ayahuasca. The liana Banisteriopsis caapi (Malpighiaceae) forms the basis of ayahuasca. Although B. caapi is used normally, B. inebriens, B. quitensis, and Tetrapterys rnetlzystica have all been reported as sources of the drink (Schultes 1957). On rare occasions ayahuasca is prepared from the boiled bark or stems of one of these malpighiaceous species without the addition of any other botanical ingredients. More commonly, however, the leaves or bark of various admixture plants are added to the brew to strengthen or modify the effect (Pinkley 1969). The admixtures used most frequently are Diplopterys cabrerana (Cuatrecasas) (formerly known as Banisteriopsis rusbyana) and the rubiaceous species Psychotria viridis and Psychotria carthaginensis. Solanaceous admixtures are also common, including tobacco (Nicotiana species), Brugmansia species, and Brunfelsia species.

Chemistry and pharmacology of ayahuasca. The most detailed chemical study to date of ayahuasca and its botanical ingredients is that of Rivier and Lindgren (19?2). Using GC/MS (gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer) analysis, these investigators found that the major active constituents of ayahuasca are the beta-carboline alkaloids harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT). The beta-carbolines are constituents of Banisteriopsis caapi (Rivier and Lindgren 1972), while DMT has been isolated as a constituent of Diplopterys carbrerana (Agurell et al.1968) and has also been detected in Psychotria viridis and P. carthaginensis. (Rivier and Lindgren 1972). The compound DMT is a potent hallucinogen and is probably responsible for the hallucinogenic activity of ayahuasca. A peculiarity of the pharmacology of DMT is that it is not orally active, possibly due to oxidative deamination in peripheral tissues by the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO). The beta-carbolines, although having some limited hallucinogenic activity themselves (Naranjo 1967), are extremely active, reversible inhibitors of MAO and thus may protect the DMT from degradation and render it orally active. This mechanism was postulated (Pinkley 1969; der Marderosian et al.1968; Schultes 1972) to underlie the oral activity of ayahuasca long before it was experimentally investigated (McKenna et a 1.1984).

Ayahuasca admixtures. The utilisation of admixture plants in conjunction with ayahuasca has reached a rather high degree of botanical and pharmacological sophistication. Besides the rubiaceous admixtures almost always included in ayahuasca, a virtual pharmacopoeia of admixtures is used occasionally, depending on the magical, ritual, or medical purposes for which the drug is being made and consumed (Schultes 1957; Pinkley 1969; der Marderosian et al.1968; Rivier and Lindgren 1972; Schultes 1972; Luna 1984; McKenna et al.1984). Many of these admixtures have not been botanically identified, much less chemically characterised, but of those identified, many of them are known to contain biodynamic constituents.

Phytochemical data on ayahuasca admixtures. The extant chemical information on plants in approximately fifty genera utilized as admixtures to ayahuasca has been compiled in Table 1 with its accompanying references (see end of chapter). This information was assembled from a computer search of the Biological Abstracts database and the American Chemical Society database, covering the years 1970 to the present. The references are not intended to be exhaustive but rather to be indicators of the existence or non-existence of information regarding biodynamic constituents in the genera listed. The chemistry of certain genera (e.g., Alchornea, Erythrina, Ficus, Maytenus, Ocimum, Tabebuia, Tabernaemontana, and Uncaria) has been extensively investigated, and the number of available references runs well into the thousands; in these instances only a limited number of key references are cited. In the many instances where phytochemical data are not available on a particular species used as an admixture to ayahuasca, the references cited refer to closely related species in the same genus.

The contribution of most of these admixtures to the pharmacological activity of ayahuasca is, at this time, a mystery and an area well deserving of further- investigation by ethnopharmacologists. Information can be found in the literature on the chemical or bio- dynamic properties of about half the genera listed in the table; the corollary to this is that virtually nothing is known about the pharmacologically active constituents in the remaining genera listed. These uninvestigated genera form part of a neglected folk pharmacopoeia that potentially is of great interest to Western science. Because many of these genera have long been valued as medicinal agents by the traditional mestizo healers who employ them, and because a high proportion of these traditional medicines has yielded biodynamic compounds of medicinal value, there seems a strong likelihood that further biochemical investigations of thes&127; admixtures will more than repay the efforts involved.

Uses of Admixture Plants in Mestizo Folk Medicine

The idea that certain plants, animals, and inanimate objects, such as mountains, lakes and rivers, have a spirit, is implicit in the cosmology of many Amazonian people, including that of mestizo practitioners of the Peruvian Amazonas. These spirits, sometimes called the madres ("mothers") of the corresponding plants, animals, or objects (Deltgen 1978-197H; Chevalier 1982; Chaumeil 1983) may be contacted for the purpose of acquiring from them knowledge or certain powers. Intelligence is not considered to be a prerogative of the human species. Being in constant contact with nature, local people have learned to respect and fear certain species of plants and animals as well as natural phenomena.

Reality for these people has a twofold character, a secular and a sacred one. These two aspects are not divorced from each other, however. Some of the qualities attributed to the "spirit" of certain plants or animals are in fact based on accurate observation and experimentation. Much can be learned about the Amazonian people's knowledge of the natural world by studying their cosmological and religious ideas.

There is no doubt that nonliterate people possess an impressively comprehensive, scientifically accurate knowledge of their environment. Taxonomic recognition of species may be extremely sophisticated (Berlin and Berlin 1983). Knowledge of the effect on the human organism of certain species of plants and animals seems to be at least as important as the recognition of morphological differentiation. In the context of an animistic world view, it is not strange that plants possessing biodynamic compounds are considered to have particularly strong mother spirits, and those with psychotomimetic constituents are regarded as powerful plant-teachers.

Dietary prescriptions, which might also have symbolic connotations (Chevalier 1982) probably reflect accurate observations of the incompatibility of ingesting specific foods together with certain plants. It is well known, for instance, that when ingesting chuchuhuasa, a beverage made of the bark of Maytenus ebenifolia and alcohol, one should avoid eating peccary (Gunther Schaper, pers. com.). The combination produces an intermittent high fever, similar to malaria. Compatibility and incompatibility of plants is often explained in terms of friendship or enmity between the spirits of the plants.

Access to the sacred dimension of reality happens through consumption of psychotropic plants and the dietary prescriptions mentioned above. The initiation occurs usually through the mastering of the use of tobacco and ayahuasca. The personal disposition of the individual and his ability to stand the hard training and the dangers involved in the shamanic initiation will determine the degree of his development. He may continue to add new additives to the basic ayahuasca brew or consume other plant-teachers to increase his knowledge and abilities. Each plant taken means entering a new dimension where the initiate encounters beings who give him new powers to manipulate the environment, often through magic melodies or icaros and incantations. Each plant has its cluster of zoomorphic and anthropomorphic spirits with which it is associated. By establishing contact with these beings, the shaman acquires more knowledge and power.

The use of these plants is not without dangers. The vegetalistas are aware that sometimes they are dealing with very powerful, even highly toxic compounds. Dosage is then of crucial importance. Another important factor is the strict observation of the diet, which seems to have at least two functions: to "cleanse" the organism so that the initiate is able fully to experience the effect of the plants, and to protect the initiate against the adverse effects of certain foods when consuming some of these plants.

Practitioners often claim that some of these plants are very "jealous" (Dobkin de Rios 1973). The sexual continence and the diet should not be broken, as the person may be "punished" by the spirits of the plants with sickness or even death. This is the case of such plants as Brunfelsia grandiflora subsp. schultesü (chiric sanango), Capirona decorticans (capirona negra), Chorisia speciosa (lupuna), Couroupita guianensis (ayahuma), Hura crepitans (catahua), Tabebuia species (tahuari) and others, although symbolic ideas are also important. Chevalier (1982), for example, claims that the reason for the strict diet is the ritual transformation of the patient into a plant spirit. Most probably, however, there are reasons of a biological nature for most of these prescriptions. The possibility that through the diet the initiate is capable of maintaining the effect of the psychotropic plants for a longer period of time should not be excluded a priori.

By ingesting these plants and keeping the prescribed diet, the initiate is supposed to be in the appropriate state of consciousness for learning the body of knowledge necessary for his future shamanistic practices. These plants "open the mind" of the initiate, so that he can effectively explore the flora, fauna, and geographical setting which surrounds him and will be able to remember it all in the future. Much of this learning process takes place in dreams, which are said to be especially vivid during the period of initiation.

At the same time, these plants strengthen the body of the initiate by giving him some of the physical qualities of the plants: for instance, the ability to withstand heavy rains, winds, and floods. Plant-teachers or doctores, as these plants are known, have a twofold aspect: they give both "strength and wisdom." Vegetalistas, when asked why they consume plant-teachers, say that they do it to "cure" (curarse) themselves. This implies that they consume plant-teachers not only to heal themselves of illness or to recover the energies of their youth, but also to "awaken" their minds.

Some of these plants, such as Couroupita guianensis (ayahuma), are also given to dogs, with the same aim: to make them stronger and to increase their hunting abilities. The idea that certain plants are teachers is even found in highly syncretic, modern rural-urban cults. In Brazil, in the state of Acre, there are groups that use the beverage prepared of Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis under the name Santo Daime (Monteiro 1983), because it is believed that these plants heal both the body and the soul and teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Adding admixtures to the ayahuasca beverage is a way of studying their properties, so that some ayahuasqueros continually are expanding their pharmacopoeia. Similar findings were made by Bristol (1966) among the Sibundoy Indians of southwestern Colombia and by Chaumeil (1983) among Yagua Indians. The latter use psychotropic plants with specific goals; some plants make you "see," others make you travel, teach you how to heal or to harm, give you strength, and so forth (Chaumeil 1983).

Our informants believe that the spirits of these admixtures present themselves either during the hallucinations elicited by the beverage or in the dreams following the intoxication, and that they disclose to the initiate their pharmacological properties. Our informants also recognise the synergistic effect that sometimes occurs when several plants are taken together. This concept is based on the idea that these plants "know each other" or "go well together," while other plants "do not like each other."

Each of the admixture plants is associated with a magic melody or icaro, which is individually revealed to the initiate when taking the ayahuasca beverage with that specific admixture. The number and quality of the magic chants increase when the diet is prolonged and new admixtures are added, one at a time, to the ayahuasca beverage. The madre spirit of these plants may be called by singing or whistling the appropriate icaro. New knowledge is first of all expressed through magic melodies (Luna 1992). A similar idea has been found among the Sharanahua (Siskind 1973).

NOTES

1. Although the masculine pronoun is used here, ayahuasqueros can be, and frequently are, women.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

This chapter was translated from the original "Ingredientes biodinamicos en las plantas que se mezclan al ayahuasca. Una farmacopea tradicional no investigada." America Indigena 46, no.1 (1986). Published with the permission of Interamerican Indian Institute, Mexico.

LITERATURE CITED

Agurell, S., B. Holmstedt, and J.-E. Lindgren.1968. Alkaloid content of Banisteriopsis Rusbyana. American Journal of Pharmacy 140:148-151.
Berlin, B., and E. A. Berlin.1983. Adaptation and ethnozoological classification: Theoretical implication of animal resources and diet of the Aguaruna and Huambiza. In Adaptive Responses of Native Amazonians. Eds. R. B. Hames and W. T. Vickers. New York: Academic Press. 65-111.
Bristol, M. L.1966. The psychotropic Banisteriopsis among the Sibundoy of Colombia. Botanical Museurn Le.aflets (Harvard University) 21:113-140
Chaumeil, J. P.1983. Voir, savoir, pouvoir. Le chamanisme chez les Yaguas du nordest peruvien. In Adaptive Responses of Native Amazoniarrs. Eds. R. B. Hames and W. T. Vickers. New York: Academic Press.
Chevalier, J. M.1982. Civilization and the Stolen Gift: Capitol, Kin, and Cult in Eastern Peru. University of Toronto Press.
Deltgen, F.1978-1979. Culture, drug and personality-a preliminary report about the results of a field research among the Yebasama Indians of Rio Piraparana in the Colombian Comisaria del Vaupes. Ethnomedicine V no.1 /2.
Dobkin de Rios, M.1970. Banisteriopsis used in witchcraft and folk healing in Iquitos, Peru. Ecorzomic Botany 24(35): 297-300.
------1971. Ayahuasca: the healing vine. International Jourrral of Social Psyclziatry 17: 256-269.
------.1972. Visionary Vine: Healing in the Peruz>ian Amazorz. San Francisco: Chandler.
------.1973. Curing with ayahuasca in an urban slum. In Hallucirrogens and Shamanism. Ed.
M. J. Harner. New York: Oxford University Press.
Deulofeu, V.1967. Chemical compounds isolated from Banisteriopsis and related species. In Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drtlgs. Eds. D. H. Efron, B. Holmstedt and N. S. Kline. U.S. Department of Health, Education and Welfare Publication no.1645. Washington, DC: Government Printing Office.
Friedberg, C.1965. Des Bcrnisteriopsis utilises comme drogue en Amerique du Sud. Journal d'Agrirulture tropicale et Botanique Appliquee. Vol.12: 403 550, 729.
Luna, L. E.1984. The concept of plants as teachers among four mestizo shamans of Iquitos, Peru. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 11:135-156.
------.1986. Vegetalismo: Shamanism arnong the Mestizo Populatiotl of the Peruvian Arnazorr. Stockholm: Almquist 8r Wiksell International.
------.1992. Function of the magic melodies or icaros of some mestizo shamans of Iquitos in the Peruvian Amazonas. In Portals of Pozuer: Shamanism in South America. Eds. J. M. Langdon and G. Baer. University of New Mexico Press. 231-253.
dei Marderosian, A., H. V. Pinkley, and M. F. Dobbins.1968. Native use and occurrence of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in the leaves of
Banisteriopsis rusbyarza. American Jorrrrral of Plznrrnory 140:137-147.
McKenna, D., G. H. N. Towers, and F. S. Abbott.1984. Monoamine oxidase inhibitors in South American hallucinogenic plants: Tryptamine and (3-carboline constituents of ayahuasca. Jorrrnal of Ethnopharmacoloqy 10:195-223.
Monteiro da Silva, C.1983. O Palacio de Juramidan. Santo Daime: LIm ritrrcrl de trnrrscerzdencia e despoluicao. Dissertacao de mestrado. Recife, Pernambuco. Marco 1983.
Naranjo, C.1967. Psychotropic properties of the harmala alkaloids. In Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactizre Drugs. Eds. D. H. Efron B. Holmstedt, and N. S. Kline. U.S. Department of Health, Education and Welfare Publication no.1645. Washington, DC: Government Printing Office.
Pinkley, H. V.1969. Plant admixtures to ayalzuasccr, the South American hallucinogenic drink. Lloydia 32: 305-31.4.
Rivier, L., and J. E. Lindgren.1972. Ayahuasca, the South American hallucinogenic drink: An ethnobotanical and chemical investigation. Economic Botany 29:101-129.
Schultes, R. E.1957. The identity of the Malpighiaceous narcotics of South America. Botczrricol Museum L.ea flets (Harvard University) 18:1-56.
------.1970. The botanical and chemical distribution of hallucinogens. Annual Review of Plant Physiology 21: 571-598.
------.1972. Ethnotoxicologica 1 significance of additives to New World hallucinogens. Plant Srience Btulletin 18: 34-41.
Schultes, R. E., and A. Hofmann.1980. Tl2e Botany nnd Chernistry of Hallucinogens. 2nd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas.
Siskind, J.1973. Visions and cures among the Sharanahua. In Hnllucirrogens nnd Slrnrnottisrrr. Ed. M. J. Ha rner. New York: Oxford University Press.
Soukup, J.1970. Vocabulario de los Nornbres Vrtl&127;qares de la Flora Perrlana. Lima: Colegio Salesiano
Tessmann, G.1930. Die Lndianer Nordost-Perus, Grrzrrdle&127;ende Forscllrrngerr fur eine Systematisclrer Kulturkunde. Hamburg: Friederichsen, De Gruyter 8r Company.
Williams, L.1936. Woods of Northeastern Peru. Field Museum of Natural History, vol.15, no. 377. Chica go.



"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Redmonk (Redmonk)
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Username: Redmonk

Post Number: 378
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"In the context of an animistic
world view, it is not strange that plants
possessing biodynamic compounds are
considered to have particularly strong mother
spirits, and those with psychotomimetic
constituents are regarded as powerful
plant-teachers. "
.......very interesting !
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Username: I_am_me

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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:59 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the read!

Did I miss something or was there a graph that goes with it? That would be interesting to see.
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 768
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 03:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never got the graph. The book it is from is here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0931146283/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref%3Dnosim/002-4626741-9384867

Its a collection of short papers etc.

Go here: http://www.biopark.org/peru/Amazon-library-ethnobotany.html

There is alot of good info here.

(Message edited by roo on February 24, 2004)

(Message edited by roo on February 24, 2004)
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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polly ester (Carcenogenic)
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Post Number: 250
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 04:45 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

could i use food grade plain gelatin or do i need to go the the wine store and get some from there?

i make my yage, i mix in the gelatin, and then keep the non jello part and throw away the gelatin correct? any ideas on measument of how much jello? i'm guessing not much. 10% maybe.

i thought yage was supposed to be horrible. i have only made mimosauasca. i'm glad it was just my recipe.

how far down can you boil the yage down percentage wise?

xoxo
polly
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polly ester (Carcenogenic)
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Username: Carcenogenic

Post Number: 251
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

also i've searched and cannot seem to find a dosage for caapi.

i have heard that using more than 3 grams of harmala seeds only increases the nausea and not the trip experience. how much caapi do i need to use for the same effect and is the above also true for caapi?

xoxo
polly

"this story ends with me still rowing" A.S.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 14285
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 02:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

could i use food grade plain gelatin or do i need to go the the wine store and get some from there?

i make my yage, i mix in the gelatin, and then keep the non jello part and throw away the gelatin correct? any ideas on measument of how much jello? i'm guessing not much. 10% maybe.



we are unsure on this approach yet, still very experimental in fact so don't try it unless you can afford to lose it.

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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 14286
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Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 02:32 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

while rue only needs about 3-4 grams,
caapi takes about 30 grams.
unlike rue, more caapi is good.

you can boil the brew down quite aways, but the more concentrated the fouler the taste.

try jell-o [gelatin] to remove the tannins,
or try adding powdered milk
let the sediment settle then syphon off the brew,
the magic should still be there but taste much improved.
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Username: I_am_me

Post Number: 912
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 04:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

i have only made mimosauasca.




Would you mind letting me know how much mimosa and rue(if thats what you had) you used and how well it worked for you? Thanks!
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 795
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:19 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3-4g rue and 10-20g mimosa seems to work well. I would start out with 10g mimosa and work my way up.

I have heard that some people can get away with less rue than 4g, some cannot. Anything less than 5g does little for me, anything over 8g is too much. I usualy stay around 5g.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Username: I_am_me

Post Number: 913
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I've read reports of anywhere from 6 grams mimosa to 20 grams. I was just curious as to what polly's experience was with it. ;) I'm just waiting for the time that is right to get my brew ready.
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Post Number: 801
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 06:04 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It all depends on the person, body weight etc. 10 grams at least for me is a good starting point. One cannot go wrong making 2 doses from 15 or 20 grams of mimosa. If one dose does not do the job than you can always drink the second or half the second.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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polly ester (Carcenogenic)
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Username: Carcenogenic

Post Number: 252
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 06:32 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hippie
should i just put in powdered milk or should i mix it with water first making a concentrated milk mixture. what about just using evaporated milk?

i use 3 grams of rue and 20 of mimosa. i use the hcl process and capsulate the powder. i would rather drink it though. it seems to have more power when you drink it. when i evaporate the mixture in the oven i tend to burn it. :-(

20 grams of mimosa is enough for me to watch the floor as if it were a television with bouncing jaguars and catydids. i have done allot of psychadelics in my time so this might be a big dose for some.

i read this thread last night and felt like i went to ayahuasca college.
xoxo
polly

and yes, make 2 doses because i have made yage probaly 30 times and it has worked 7.
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polly ester (Carcenogenic)
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Username: Carcenogenic

Post Number: 253
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 07:01 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one more question. a friend and i were talking and we thought maybe that the reason they use datura in yage(besides the obvious) is to reduce the nausea. isn't the chemical in dramamine the same as the one found in datura?


i know it's far fetched, but just thought i'd get your oppinions.

xoxo
polly
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 14308
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 09:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

just put in powdered milk



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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
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Post Number: 163
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 03:52 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok
second attempt has been set up
This time more than one dose is being prepared
also one brew will be made, not two
this time chacruna and chaliponga will be used
same phosphoric acid tek
Now does anyone have experience with chaliponga here? Specifically BB hawaiian chaliponga? Is it really strong? Is one ounce along with 20gms chacruna and 75 grms yage split between 2 doses too much?
So it goes...
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 14407
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Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 03:56 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nope, should be just about right.

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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 810
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 04:11 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hawaiian Chaliponga is of great quality. It seems more consistant to me than the others.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
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Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 164
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 04:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

alright then
3 day soak to be sure
then time to get a cooking
Hip, you use a crock pot right?
What's the best method with one?
Hi, Low, Covered, not covered?
So it goes...
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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
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Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 165
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 04:19 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good to hear that Roo!
the best way to start with a recipe for anything
is to start with quality ingredients
So it goes...
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 14412
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 11:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Hip, you use a crock pot right?
What's the best method with one?
Hi, Low, Covered, not covered?



low, covered is how i go.
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Natura (Natura)
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Username: Natura

Post Number: 322
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 12:07 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't wait trip report !

P.S. Hawaiian PV is always mo potent than peruvian.

N+
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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
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Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 170
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 08:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool
Low and covered it will be then
Actually the chacruna and chaliponga
being used are both hawaiian
So hopefully should make for good results
A few days will tell

So it goes...
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 831
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:21 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

grimble g grumble


Any progress? Grind the stuff as fine as you can get it. I find this has always worked best for me. This is about as fine as I can get my caapi.


Upload

"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
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Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 202
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:48 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, actually Roo I just finished the third extraction a moment ago.
Tomorrow I will do the reduction, then partake perhaps saturday.
I ground mine just a little bit finer than that with my coffee grinder. Lots of work!
Any advice on the reduction phase?
Last time it took a loooong time, but i'm sure that's how it is.


(Message edited by grimblegrumble on March 04, 2004)
So it goes...
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Redmonk (Redmonk)
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Username: Redmonk

Post Number: 407
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only tip I can give you on the reduction phase is : The further it boils down , the hotter it becomes....so keep turning down the heat slightly as you reduce it . Stir frequently . If you're a traditionalist , you may even want to lovingly blow some tobacco smoke over the brew while singing or whistling an icaro !
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 14812
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when it gets real low i take it off the stove and finish drying with hot air.
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 832
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes you have to watch it or it will burn fast.. I try to keep the temp high almost all the way to the end. It seems to help the "acid" used in the extraction boil off. I also try to boil it down to less than 100ml per dose.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Username: I_am_me

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:13 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I possibly have a friend visiting this weekend so I might try and brew. He is one of the few I would want around to sit for me.
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 837
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 01:39 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good! Remember to keep a bucket by the toilet just in case La Purga decides to "clean" you out back door and frount door.

I do not know if you use tobacco or not, but a good, mild all natural cigar might help you during the dream. As strange as it sounds I have found it to be very helpfull as have other people. A little herb 30 minutes before drinking the tea can be a big help also. Just a few hits to help you relax, nothing more.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"

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