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Mycotopia Web Archive ArchiveBotanicalsAYAHUASCALooking for advice on first ayahuaska experience � Archive through February 13, 2004 Previous Next

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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
Senior Member
Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 07:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, I have been reading and thinking about ayahuaska for a few months. I finally took the step, ordered from BB and have recieved materials. I have cappi, chaliponga and chacruna. I am going to start with what sounds like the standard about 1oz cappi and 1oz viridis. Now, there seem to be so many different methods of preparation and opinions about them. Please, from those with experience, what is your best method of preparation? What is the best acid for extraction? HCL, lemon juice? Any advice at all would be welcome, I want everything to go well.
So it goes...
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12780
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:45 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

first of all,
many brews are duds.
so i would mix up at least 2-3 doses per batch,
i.e. 2-3 ounces each of the yage & chacruna [caapi and viridis].
then you can drink 1/2 or 1/3,
see what you get
and up the dose if needed.
there are about as many ways as there are people.
but my best trip ever came from a brew
i made in my crock pot, using lemon juice.
i shredded everything real good,
added water to cover and a tablespoon or two of lemon juice and set the heat on low.
i let it brew a couple days,
strained it off and boiled off much of the water to concentrate it.
chug!



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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 603
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:25 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Distilled water seems a must for my dreamer friend. He used tap water once and it was a total flop. Using a coffee grinder for the "leaf" also helps, the finer the better. You should be ok with just about any food grade acid, I prefer to stick with lemon juice of vinager. Beware of HCl as it does not boil off as well as the others. One could end up concentrating the acid rather than boiling most of it off. Not good! A large PC with no lid works great to boil down the extraction.

Be mentaly and physicaly prepaired also! I have done strait DMT and it did not prepare me for Ayahuasca. It is a physical challenge as well as a mental one. I have found that if I eat lightly up to 3 hours before the dream, then just a glass of water over the next 3 hours I do not have as many stomach problems. Fasting seemed to make it worse. Keep a bucket near the toilet as I have seen the "purge" come out of both ends at once in some people.

My first trip years ago was a real rough one. The first 2 where actualy. I thought I was dead many times. No matter how intense the dream is I always feel better in the end, actualy much better than before the dream. I usualy plan a lazy day the day after. A day off from work etc.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12973
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 01:47 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Beware of HCl as it does not boil off as well as the others. One could end up concentrating the acid rather than boiling most of it off



smell the brew,
hcl is acrid and easily detected.
heat until the smell is gone.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12974
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 01:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

A large PC with no lid works great to boil down the extraction.



i try to avoid putting acidic solutions in aluminum and then concentrating and drinking the resulting brew.
i like a ceramic line pot,
and no metal utensils, just wood.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12975
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 01:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Keep a bucket near the toilet as I have seen the "purge" come out of both ends at once in some people



guilty as charged.

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Redmonk (Redmonk)
Senior Member
Username: Redmonk

Post Number: 370
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 02:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah , "guilty as charged" also !I use a few different sized stainless steel kettles for reducing the brew . A little herb on hand also helps keep the nausea at bay . Don't forget to check out Ayahuasca .com for tons of tips also . Good luck !
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12988
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 02:43 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and a word to the wise-be careful what you say over at www.ayahuasca.com
they tend to land on newbies who talk too plainly and explicitly
like a ton of bricks.

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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
Senior Member
Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 124
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 02:59 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea, I've been spending some time on ayhuaska.com. Now I'm not sure if one should go with phosphoric acid or HCL. I've read alot of good things about both, and alot of bad things about lemon juice. HCL does evaporate if the whole thing is taken down to a dry extract, then rehydrated. So you've had good results with 30/30 grams caapi/viridis? Alot of the people at ayahuaska.com seem to do alot more. Anyway, i appreciate the advice. I'm looking at next week as I need to get a couple more supplies and I plan on burning some dried pedro incense in a couple of days I got for a valentines gift. This too is the first pedro incense I will have ever burned. I got me a capsule machine to burn that incense good! Oh, and I'll keep that bucket handy from now on!
So it goes...
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grimble g grumble (Grimblegrumble)
Senior Member
Username: Grimblegrumble

Post Number: 125
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 03:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Hip, I noticed that. Reading some of the posts there made me want to do just that, read, and not register and post. This is a much more accepting place and I like it much more!
So it goes...
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 635
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 04:22 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use stainless for everything! Will not let an aluminium pot in the house.

I very little herb helps! But to much just makes the chunks fly at light speed for me! LOL! A single piece of bread helps alot.

Be carefull at Ayahuasca.com. Yes and dont even breath a word about shrooms there. Those guys are more paranoid than I am. They do not like people who use Aya just to get high and they have a process of weeding people out.

Just dont be afraid of the purge. The more you hold back, the worse it will be. Just let it go and be done with it. Its a soul/body clensing.

As far as incense goes. Some kinds give me bad dreams and others enhance the experiance. Some I can handle with shrooms and not Aya. Its strange!

(Message edited by roo on February 11, 2004)
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12994
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

So you've had good results with 30/30 grams caapi/viridis? Alot of the people at ayahuaska.com seem to do alot more.



i'd consider that about a minimum batch,
but as i said above-
it's wise to brew 2 or 3 times that much in case of low potency.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 12995
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:24 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

not sure if one should go with phosphoric acid or HCL. I've read alot of good things about both, and alot of bad things about lemon juice



i'd go with phosphoric over hcl
but i think lemon juice is ok too.
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Maliki (Maliki)
Intermediate Member
Username: Maliki

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 03:43 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well now for my 2 cents. I like you had done alot of reading and was in the procces of atempting a trade for the propper herbs when low and behold Hippie came to my aid. He set me up very nice with a manor to obtain what I needed.
I chose to go with the HCL method. It went perfect first shot out of the gates. I used 15 Grams chaliponga and 5 grams Rue. I used my mortar/pestal to grind everything nice and fine . For the chaliponga leaves I used a small handheld rotary cheses grader to get them super fine to begin with. As for the Rue it seemed to turn into a paste rather then a powder so I used Some of the Acicdified water to rinse my mortar and pestal clean.
Once I had all my materials preped I put distilled water in 2 /b{GLASS} pot's and acidified with the HCL . If I remeber correctly the ratio is 1 cup per dose with 10 droops HCI brings the water to a PH of 5 I checked mine and I was at 4.5 so that ratio is right. So no matter how big your batch if you use the ratio of 10 drops per 1 cup of water your ph is where it should be . And as long as you can cover all your plant matter your good to go with whatever amounts you use.
Bring the water to a boild and boil the contants for about a half hour or so a little longer is best. Now Pour contents of pot out into another glass or porcelean pot while straining the plat materieal so all you have in the new pot is the liquid. Now refill the pot with the plant matter with fresh clean acidified water and boil again for a half hour or so . Strain this again retaining your plant matter , and refill and boil for a half our again your plant matter , this being the final boil normaly. For simplicitys sake I went to the store and bought one of those permanent coffe fillters the plastic kind , it works great for filltering this type of thing.

Now that you have all the liquid saved in seperate pots or even better GLASS baking dishes turn your oven on as low as it will go and place them inside now is where it gets a little tricky . The idea here is to evaporate the liquid of completly . But you can burn it and that ruins the whole thing . Best ting to do is to reduce it down to a thick syrup in the oven and then let them finish with no heat or under a hot lamp that isnt to close as to burn the goodies.
The reason you evaporate the liquid compleltly is the HCI acid bonds to water once all the water is gone the HCL acid then turns into HCL gas and complelty evaporates. If the final substance is still at all gummy let it sit and drie some more as that gum is extreamly consantrate HCL. Once the dishes are compltly dry use a razor blade and scrape the residue into a powder. You can then jell cap the powder or reconstitute it in boiling water and sip slowly which is whats recommended for the dmt portion of the brew. its all in the archives my friend . go to botanicals then to ayahuasca then HCL method.
Word of cation the no metal thing is very serious.
Glass or porcelian is a must or the acid water will leach the metal out of the pots and you will wind up with heavy metal poisoning


When we share we all learn :-)
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 636
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will have to thank Leprachaun, Natura and Hippie for the info in the Archives regarding Ayahuasca. I see these names alot there.Many thanks to everyone here!

I will give the oven method a try, thanks.
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 13045
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 12:24 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Hippie came to my aid. He set me up very nice



never much cared for that expression 'set me up'
much better to say 'hooked me up',
imo.
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 642
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 05:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hippie,

I saw in the archives that people where going to use milk to cut the tannins in a Mimosa analog. I do not see any results or comments on this. Have you tried this? Does it effect potancy/absorbtion?
I have got more consistant results with mimosa but the stuff is so filled with tannins!
"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 13102
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 05:50 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not yet,
that was just another one of my many crack-pot ideas that neither i nor anyone else, to my knowledge, has gotten around to testing .
a pity, the theory behind it sounds pretty solid
but i just don't brew often enough these days so i never got around to it.

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Natura (Natura)
Senior Member
Username: Natura

Post Number: 296
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Advantage of jurema is only that you don't need to add Caapi or rue. It's active without MAOI. & also don't need real diet before drinking. Cold water extraction is working enough good.
Mimosahuasca doesn't have existed in traditional context. I don't know the reason why people want to use this ? wel,, PV + Caapi combos is absolut for mi.

Upload
N+
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 647
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will have to try it. I do worry about milk becouse of the meds given to cows. There is always some residue in milk. I might try a pure protein, non soy based, and see what happens.

I found this in regards to removing tannin and wine making:

"Tannin removal, for its part, is normally done by fining the wine with either unflavoured gelatin, or casein (milk). a quarter of a gram of gelatin, dissolved in 25 mls of warm water, will remove the same weight of tannin from a wine. Try this amount for each 5 litres of wine (or gallon, if you choose), as a starting point. We ourselves have not used milk, but it is an old remedy which many winemakers swear by. The
basic dosage is 2 to 3 drops per gallon as a starting dose.
Other "country wine" remedies include egg-white; one egg white, thoroughly beaten into 300 ml of wine, is reported to be suitable for up to 50 litres of wine. Of course, when using any
perishable organic agents such as milk or egg white, it is important to rack off the sediment without delay.

All of these approaches are based on the fact that tannins and proteins precipitate each other. Several commercial finings work on the same principle and combine tannins and proteins in their mix; however these are formulated to
balance each other, and therefore will not be particularly effective in removing excess tannin itself."


"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 13138
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see, so it makes sense, yes, to try this on 'huasca ?
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Tehuti (Roo)
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Username: Roo

Post Number: 648
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:15 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Natura

I may be wrong but I do think "Mimosahuasca" does have a context in eastern brazil. I have found a few references to it:

SCHULTES; HOFMANN
Indole alkaloids in plant hallucinogens.
Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Jan-Mar 1976 p 17
Anadenanthera peregrina, PHOTO:seeds collected in Puerto Rico; PHOTO:tree in Boa Vista, Territorio de Roraima, Brazil. Yopo Snuff:-Orinoco basin, Colombia & Venezuela, possibly isolated areas in the southern part of the Brazilian Amazon. The tree grows in open plain areas, not in tropical forests. It was early taken by invading Indians to the West Indies, where even today its distribution indicates its adventitious nature. Hispaniola. Mimosa hostilis: 'dry parts of Pernambuco, Brazil

I have seen the debate regarding Mimosa without a MAOI. I have seen much evidence both ways. There is a genetic defect that causes the bodies of some people not to produce MAO or very little. This may be the reason except that it has only been seen in whites and hardly ever in native peoples.

I also like working with PV and caapi best, but my mimosa experiments continue. I have actually only seen Ayahuasca brewed by 2 other people. One of those people included a handfull of what looked like Datura seeds to the mix. That experience was very different. I have done datura alone a few times and now I chose to leave it alone! The experience was not like those experiences. It was alot like seeing the dream with the%

I also like working with PV and caapi best, but my mimosa experiments continue. I have actualy only seen Ayahuasca brewed by 2 other people. One of those people included a handfull of what looked like Datura seeds to the mix. That experiance was very differant. I have done datura alone a few times and now I chose to leave it alone! The experiance was not like those experiances. It was alot like seeing the dream with the eyes open and closed. Intence, but not insane like pure datura.

You have fresh PV!? Wow! I could not imagine being that lucky... Great pic!




"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 649
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:26 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"see, so it makes sense, yes, to try this on 'huasca ?"

It does, after reading what I read in the archives I started digging. Gelatin seems like it might work better. It is in itself inert and one can easily obtain a medically pure source. I also know that it will not interact to much with the potency because many people load dry Ayahuasca into gelatin caps, at least that makes a good theory!




"You have to go out of your mind to use your head"
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Natura (Natura)
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Username: Natura

Post Number: 297
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 10:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Mimosahuasca = MHRB + Rue or Caapi or anyother MAOI, right ? Jurema is not Mimosahuasca. North Brazilian tribe use only Jurema (=MHRB cold water extraction) traditionally. I ve heard local shamans sometime use S. rue for burst effect since some years.

2. this pic is not from my own garden.
Tchek: http://releasethereality.com/tbl.html
N+
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PBeester (Pissybee)
Senior Member
Username: Pissybee

Post Number: 513
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:13 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, from what I can understand, they say the tribes that use only the Mimosa, do not actually trip, it is more for the ritual. All the scientific studies say DMT is not active without a MAOI. We discussed this a long time ago and I still haven't found anyone who says that it works, except Natura. Natura, have you tried it this way, or both, and what, if any, are the differences?
PB