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Fresh Mexicana StonesSoliverHippie325 1 03-17-04  12:30 am

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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13278
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 12:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psilocybe mexicana strain A is noted for its exceptional sclerotia forming abilities but it can be fruited under controlled conditions. Substrate is [rye]grass seed cased with sterile peat and calcium carbonate in a 4:1 ratio. Fruiting temperature is 75-78F with good air exchange
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One day later. Plenty of spores. Pure calcium carbonate was used in the casing instead of the less soluable crushed oystershell with better results. No cold shock, casing was applied and the tray was put immediately into the fruiting chamber with fruits forming 14 days later. Minimal sclerotia formation noticed in this particular casing.
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posted by workman, of sporeworks, at shrooomery.org
archive material


(Message edited by admin on February 15, 2004)
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who me? (Suckerfree)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 12:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool thanks!
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Post Number: 1736
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 01:51 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm suddenly very hungry. . .
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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grasshopper wilkins (Triked)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 05:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very VERY beautiful!
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harry m stevens (Rockawayrooms)
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Post Number: 482
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 06:21 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, they look awesome!!!
her face is cracked from smilin
all the tears that she's been hidin
and she wonders pretty soon if
everybody's gonna mellow!!!
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13365
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 02:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

printing
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seven (Mycosev)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 02:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for being A strain those are wonderfull fruits , i cant ever get mine to fruit like that .and those spore prints are great to. lucky you .=)
SeVeN
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 02:38 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not me,
workman.
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Post Number: 1750
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 02:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are these usually very slow to germinate? It's now day 17, and neither the agar nor the grain show any signs of mycelia growth yet.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13433
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 02:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Using Strain-B, Quarts of grass seed were fully colonized at 85F in 14 days.
from http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/11994.h tml
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Sharkie Jones (Rainbowfungus)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 03:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey what is calcium carbonate? Where can I get some.
God bless the Post Office, and tyvek.
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Pskovinsky (Pskov)
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Post Number: 482
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 05:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone tell soliver if he's still around... he had a ton he was trying to fruit a while ago.


Those are cool looking little mushrooms!
--Pskov(insky)
A multiclass lvl 1 psion, lvl 2 fighter, and lvl 6 auto mechanic.
Stats unknown.
(no, it's not my car, wish it was)
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13443
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 06:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Hey what is calcium carbonate? Where can I get some.



Calcium Antacid pills are nearly 100% calcium carbonate
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 06:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Limestone(or chalk) CaCO3 is a weak base.
If used in form of ground oyster shells, it will buffer the pH.
here's another source=
http://ebrew.com/wine/winemaking_acids.htm#CAL

(Message edited by admin on February 16, 2004)
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 08:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmm, 14 days. I inoculated ten agar dishes and five quarts of rye Jan 29th. Not one single strand of mycleia showing up yet on any of it. Has anyone else had this problem with that latest batch?
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 08:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you eat the fruits what is around a good dose dry?
Green is the colour of her kind.

-Pink Floyd
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 08:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i haven't tried my syringe out yet. i have been working too much to study up on the rye grass seed tek.
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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Soliver (Soliver)
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Post Number: 622
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 09:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still here -

I had no luck fruiting this strain, but then I'm
certainly no expert.

Rog - my jars took almost a month to colonize. They took
so long to show mycelial formation, I just about
threw them away, but when I finally got around to
actually chucking them, the mycelia had just begun.

It's an unusual species, that's for sure. I'm looking
forward to having some more time to experiment with the
fruits . . . so far I'm not sure if the slow colonization, etc.,
is worth it, as my stones weren't overly potent
(only tried them 2x thus far - 1g and 2.5g)

All the same, they're fun to grow & watch, and they're a
lazy man's dream come true. All you need is time
to forget that you ever 'nocced them and you're set!

:-)

sol
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
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Post Number: 337
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 03:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

hmmm, 14 days. I inoculated ten agar dishes and five quarts of rye Jan 29th. Not one single strand of mycleia showing up yet on any of it. Has anyone else had this problem with that latest batch?




did you soak that rye grass seed in coffee?
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 04:08 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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- - - - - (Redstorm)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 04:10 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really want to get a syringe of this, but I definitely don't feel like paying $28 for 1.

It's quite pricy.
~Peace

"Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win." -Jonathan Kozol
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
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Post Number: 338
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 04:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rodger could you tell me how you went about preparing the rye grass seed before inoculation? i tried preparing the seed before and it looked sorta mushie, and just soaking it, it smelled bad. i bought some from the store, it had green material also in it... (normal?) plus i'm not sure how much to buy.... my job has been taking up lots of my studying time, but the mexicana syringe has been calling for me... use me... use me...
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 04:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I inoculated ten petri dishes to grow out to inoculate rye grass seed. I had a few rye berry jars left from another experiment, so I put 2cc in each one. Rye grass is supposed to be better. I've never worked with it either, so I can't say.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Expert Contam Grower (Exprtcntamgrowr)
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Post Number: 94
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 04:36 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe that strain you have is a slow starter. here's a pic of one of a petri inoculated on the 8th with a one year old spore syringe. In tests so far every syringe (year old cold storage) is now doing poorly or dead. Most of them put out beautiful rhizo growth when new but now those that produce are all mostly cottony growth and slow to spread.Upload
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Upload BTW just produced sclerotia, never tried to fruit them, will have to try to fruit this batch.

I grow everything very well, Green mold exceptionaly well.
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 05:39 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

hmmm, 14 days. I inoculated ten agar dishes and five quarts of rye Jan 29th. Not one single strand of mycleia showing up yet on any of it. Has anyone else had this problem with that latest batch?




I had a syringe from a contest here a long time ago. Tried it with Rye, Corn, Rye Grass seed, and PDA. Never had a spot of germination on anything. Had to be the syringe.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 10:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

complain to sporeworks,
surely they'll replace it.
tell psilocyber i sent you,
if he gives no satisfaction
just let me know
and i'll get it fixed for ya.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13627
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 02:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

from our sponsor, MushMush's site
Cultivation of fruitbodies and sclerotia on sterilised grass seed

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

This document gives instructions on how to prepare substrate suitable for the cultivation of:

Psilocybe mexicana (mushrooms and sclerotia)
Psilocybe tampanensis (mushrooms and sclerotia)
Psilocybe cubensis (mushrooms; rye grain is preferred for this species)
Panaeolus subbalteatus (mushrooms)
Preparation of the substrate

The substrate is based on grass seed. The most commonly sold form is rye grass seed (Lolium perenne) but we have also used mixtures of different species with great succes. Make sure however that it is not treated with fungicides. If seed has been treated with fungicides it should say so on the packaging. You may have to look around a little bit to get some unexpensive seed (we buy ours from an animal feed store where it is sold as birdfeeding).

We use the following formula for 720 ml jars

110 grams grass seed
180 ml water
After the water and seed have been filled into the jars, the lids are put on but NOT screwed tight! The lids MUST remain loose! Then a double layer of tinfoil is crumpled over the lid and top part of the jar. Now the jars are ready for sterilisation.

NOTE: Different varieties of grass seed and even batches of the same variety can differ greatly in their ability to absorb water. Too much water results in a slimy clump of seed that cannot be shaken, too little results in substrate that is too dry and produces little or no mushrooms/sclerotia. You should experiment a little with these.

Alternatively you can soak the grass seed overnight in water and then fill the jars with soaked grass seed. This will produce a more homogenous substrate.


Sterilisation

The jars should be sterilised in a pressure cooker or autoclave, a normal pot will NOT suffice. First a layer of water is poured into the cooker. The jars are placed in the pressure cooker making sure that the lids are loose!Now sterilise the jars for one hour according to the directions supplied with your pressure cooker. If you are using bigger jars then the sterilisation time should be prolonged. (we sterilise 1.5 litre jars and spawnbags always for 2 full hours).Once the cooker is no longer under pressure the jars should be taken out and the grass seed in the jars should be shaken loose to mix the wet and dry kernels. The jars should then be allowed to cool in a clean place. Always check the jars for cracks before shaking! When the jars have cooled to room temperature inoculations can take place. As the jars are cooling down the lids should remain loose or else they will pull a vacuum.


Inoculation

When the jars have cooled down they are ready to be inoculated. Don't be hasty, be patient! If you inoculate the jars while they are still hot the spores or mycelium might get killed. You can use a spore syringe, mycelium syringe, agar squares or whatever kind of inoculant you want. The most important thing to remember is to WORK CLEAN! When using syringes always flame the needle before commencing inoculations. When using agar squares always flame the scalpel! Be careful! ALCOHOL AND SPRAY LYSOL ARE HIGHLY FLAMMABLE!!!

Even a simple hood made of a cardboard box prevents prevent drafts and subsequently contamination. Do not expose the sterilised grain to air longer then absolutely necessary. Open the lids of the jars just a crack and work swiftly. After inoculation the lids of the jars are closed and the jars are shaken. Then the lid is loosened again so the mycelium will be able to breathe.


Colonisation

After inoculation the jars are put in a clean and draft free location. We normally put our jars at room temperature (20C) or slightly higher. When mycelium starts to grow in only a few spots we shake the jars to redistribute the colonised kernels. This speeds up colonisation dramatically. Depending on the temperature, the species and the method of inoculation the grass seed can be completely colonised in 5-20 days.

When jars are incubated too long or at too high a temperature the mycelium will excrete yellowish metabolites. This situation is not good, these seed in these jars should be cased as soon as possible.


Casing (for the cultivation of mushrooms)

When the grass seed in the jars is completely colonised it needs to be cased. For this purposewe use 1-litre disposable plastic trays. The colonised grass seed of one jar is shakenloose are poured into a tray. If there are lumps within the seed these can bebroken up withthe clean rim of the jar. The surface of the grain is levelled evenly. Using a big spoon and afork the grain is now covered with a thin layer (1.5-2.0 cm) of casing soil. We always try to keep the casing surface even while at the same time keeping it rough (with small valleys and hills).The cased tray is then covered with tin foil and put in a clean location (20-25C). Within a few days you will notice the mycelium growing through the casing soil.Depending on the strain (some strains fruit earlier and easier then others) the casings are nowready to be exposed to air and light to start the fruiting cycle.


Recipe and Preparation of the casing soil

We use the following recipe:

10 parts of peat
5 parts of vermiculite
2 parts of limestone (Marl)

The ingredients are mixed in dry form and while stirring water is added. The amount of water of course depends on the moisture content of the peat. The object is to get as much water in the casing soil as possible without turning it into mud. If the casing gets too wet just add a little more dry ingredients. This casing soil is then filled into oven bags (made of nylon), autoclave bags (PP) or jars andthese are sterilised for one hour in the pressure cooker. When the soil has cooled down toroom temperature it's ready to use.

We know that some authors advise against sterilisation of casing soil because it would killall the beneficial organisms. We however have had only bad experiences with untreated orpasteurised casing soils. We just tell what works best for us!



Fruiting

Some cultivators use very elaborate set-ups with humidifiers, cool-mist devices and such. We have never found this necessary. The fruiting containers that we use consist of simple clear plastic bins that are covered with polyethylene sheeting. These bins are stackable and thus very space efficient. For air exchange some hole are melted in the sides of the bins.These holes can be covered with mesh to keep out flies. Basically, five cased trays are put in one bin and the evaporation from the casing surface is enough to maintain the proper moisture inside the bin. The holes provide some air exchange. We always cold-shock the harder-to-fruit strains (we put them in the fridge for one night beforeputting them in the bins). For easy fruiting strains (i.e. Ecuador cubensis) this is not necessary. Psilocybe mexicana, Psilocybe tampanensis and Panaeolus subbalteatus do not benefit from such a treatment.The casings are misted each day and the casing is never allowed to dry out. Directly after a flushis picked watering is increased because the maturing mushrooms pull a lot of moisture from the casing soil. It's very difficult to give explicit directions on a watering regime. You will have to develop a 'feeling' for it.Depending on the strain the first pinheads will appear 6-15 days after putting the casings in the bins. The mushrooms will mature in 5-7 days after which they can be picked. We normally let the casings produce 3 flushes, but they may (when watered properly) produce 5 or even 6 flushes. Psilocybe mexicana usually produces one big flush and a small second flush. Other mentioned species produce more constant.

Keep the surface of the casing as clean as possible by removing dead pinheads (aborts) as these can lead to moulds showing up on the casing surface.




Sclerotia

The mycelium of Psilocybe tampanensis and Psilocybe mexicana can produce sclerotia while still in the jar. Colonised grass seed need not be cased for this to happen. In our experience (with tampanensis) sclerotia will continue to enlarge until 4 months after inoculation. The jars should be put in a clean (preferably dark) location. Sclerotia of these species also form in the casing layer of cased trays.

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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13628
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 02:57 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a. Any grain will work, grass seed is the standard but rice and grass seed formulas seem to form sclerotia faster. Probably due to the greater moisture holding capacity of rice as compared to grass seed. Rice formulations tend to be unshakable masses, but since making spawn is not the point, it doesn't matter.

Grass seed:water 2:1 ratio. I use about a cup of seed to a quart and 1/2 cup water. I don't know a good rice ratio. I think Una posted one. A search might be in order.

b. Yes, you just innoculated the jars and leave them alone at room temperature. The sclerotia slowly forms and you can harvest when you see enough stones to satisfy you (2-4 months for mexicana, 3-6 months for tampanensis). The longer you leave them alone, the larger the stones get. One cup of grass seed = 30-40+ dry grams mexicana (A strain) in 3 months. Tampanesis is about 1/2 that.

c. Yes, you can case them. I use a peat/oystershell casing but anything used for cubensis should work fine. Vermiculite casings are not ideal since the verm sticks to the sclerotia tenaciously. You can't get large amounts of both sclerotia and fruits simultaneously. You either get lots of sclerotia and few mushrooms or visa versa. The mycelium is not as contamination resistant as cubensis, so if you have problems with mold when working with cubes, you will have more trouble with mex or tamp.

For the rice is used equal volumes of rice and water. For millet equal amounts by WEIGHT and for the grass seed about 2:1 in volume (grass seed/water).


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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Post Number: 13644
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 08:55 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

50:50 ratio of grass seed to water so 300ml each per quart is pretty close.

More prints, a mexicana fortune!!!


Oh, and that was the 3rd flush. They seem to print better after a few flushes.

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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Post Number: 1787
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 12:15 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's been twenty days now, with no sign of germination on agar or grain. Must just be a bad batch. Probably got stoned and forgot to mix the spores in. lol. I'll send off an email to 'em.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
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Post Number: 346
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 04:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Probably got stoned and forgot to mix the spores in




did you not see them in the syringe? there's a ton in mine.
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
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Post Number: 350
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 06:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


Grass seed:water 2:1 ratio. I use about a cup of seed to a quart and 1/2 cup water.




i see there's a ratio listed, why does this person only use a cup of seed and a 1/2 cup water per quart jar... am i reading that right?


"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Post Number: 1789
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 01:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, I couldn't see any spores in the syringe. But, seeing as it's first time with mex a, I didn't know if they could be seen or not. I sent him an email....Prob just got a bad one.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix

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