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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 14416
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 12:38 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

by Doc007

MycoBags

Acquire these things:

1) Pressure cooker - No way around it. If you want do it you need the right tools for grain. Get the biggest one you can afford, I have a 22Qt and wish I had a 30qt.

2) Large Soaking vessel - A Large stock pot, or bucket, whatever you have that is water tight.

3) LARGE wire strainer - Needs to be fine enough that your grain does not pass through mesh. This is a simple tool that makes things go easily. Too small of a strainer is ridiculous to work with, go buy a big one.

4) Medium Spawn Bags W/Filter patches* - Aprox 18" X 5.5" X 4" - Sporeworks.com, Mycobag.com.

* I use the ones with an injector port, you can use the ones without if you want to save a few bucks, but I figure what the heck.

5) Binder clips - You know those metal black paper clip type things that come in sizes ranging from silly small, to way big? Get one size up from tiny. Office depot has them cheap, and they work great, and last forever. You will be putting 3 on each bag. Clothes pins work just as well, but I like the metal clips.

6) Impulse sealer. An 8" sealer works perfectly for Medium sized bags.

7) Inoculant - Spore syringe OR Myc water works very well. Transfers from grain, or agar are also possible but will require a very clean prepared workspace, and hopefully a flow hood. Syringe innocs will be able to get by more readily using dodgy methods like mine. Figure 2-3 CC's of spore juice per bag prepped using this method, or 5-6 CC of Myc Suspension.

8 )Rye Whole Grain** - Organic preferred. Check your local markets bulk section. .59 a lb is a fair price at the market. 12 dry lbs will do 5 bags using this method.

**Finch Mix, and Soft White Wheat can be substituted for Rye, you will need to add about 1/2 quart of dry finch mix per jar to your soak. Soft white wheat can be straight substituted.

1
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9)Rubbing Alcohol - This is a handy instant sanitizer, just remember it kills everything. Good or bad, it will kill.

10) Paper towels. Duh

11) Rubber gloves - Clean sterile covers for those grubby hands of yours.


<<<<<<the>>>>>>


Step 1 - Prepare The Grain

Place 1.5 quarts of dry grain for each bag you want to fill into your soaking vessel. Toss in an extra quart to make sure you have a little extra.

3

QUOTE
Fun Grain Facts:
1 Quart Jar of Rye is 1.5Lbs of grain. - 1.5 Jars = 2.25Lbs of dry grain per bag. Use this to determine how much dry grain you need to start with for the qty of bags you are preparing.



Rinse the rye twice, this just gets rid of all the dust. Donít worry about draining it completely, thatís why you give it two rinses. Itís just a quick twice over.

Soak organic rye berries in water for 12-24 hours. Make sure there is plenty of water covering the rye. Cover with at least a few inches of water.***

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*** Alternately you can place your grain in the soaking vessel, and cover with boiling water, let soak 1.5 hours, then drain and use. You may get a few busted grains this way but not too many and it speeds things up.

Drain for 15 minutes. Shake strainer to remove any extra water being held by capillary action.

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Step 2 Fill The Bags


Fill medium size spawn bags with 2.5 to 3 Quarts of the pre-soaked, drained Rye. More will fit, but it wonít leave adequate room for mixing easily. You are still getting the equivalent of 4 or 5 Quart Jars worth of substrate into ONE bag so why over do it further. If you MUST fill the bag more, be sure to stay at least 3" below the filter patch.

8

Tap the bags a couple times on the counter and carefully fold over the bag at the top of the grain. You want to get as much of the air as you can out of the bag because it will expand in the PC. Donít mash your grain, but do squeeze out the air. The bag will fold nice and flat against the top of the grain.

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Once the bag is folded to one side, flip the bag over so the top rests on your folded over bag. This will keep air from rushing back in quickly.

10

Fold over the top 1" of the bag and crease it. Now place 3 clips along the edge.

Flip bag back upright, and fold the top down in a couple of folds.

11

QUOTE
Fun Fact: Pre-sealable bags are now available and you can skip the clips and post PC sealing and seal them using the sealing instructions below now and all but eliminate any chance of contams getting at your grain post PC. Worth the extra cash if you have it and are lazy like me.




Step 3 - Cook The Bags


Place your bags in the PC on the rack. You do not want them to touch the inside wall or the bottom of the PC. Use Lid Rings as spacers if you need to. Fill with water to just below the bags on the rack. A wet dish towel can be wrapped around the bags to protect them from the hot sides of the PC.

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QUOTE
Fun Fact: Props go out to Miko for turning me on to the rings for spacers, and Flatty for the wet towel trick. NEVER ever ever melted a bag.....ever.



Close the PC, Turn on the heat and wait till steam is escaping via the vent hole. Add the weight and wait till the PC reaches 15psi. Adjust heat to maintain 15psi.

PC the bags at 15psi for 2.5 hours.

Turn off the heat and let the PC pressure drop to zero.

Let the PC cool to a workable temperature.

16

Step 4 - Seal The Bags


Do this step in as clean an area as possible. I leave my bags in the PC overnight, then seal them on a preheated oven door.

Here are some tips on using a bag sealer:

1)Test your sealer and bags. Try it with an empty bag to determine the best setting. Cook the bag first if you want the most accurate results, they change.

2)Check that setting. The temp control on my sealer is easy to nudge in-between bags. Check it before you press it.

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3)Let it cool. If you try and make two seals too quickly the second one will be MUCH hotter than the first.

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4)Apply enough pressure. If you are getting the bag hot enough, but you are not getting that "perfect seal", try pressing a little harder. This is especially important when you are working on a "soft" or flexible surface, like an oven rack.

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Step 5 - Inoculation


Work in as clean an area as possible.

You can Inoculate the bags using a spore syringe, or Myc water, Grain or agar transfers could be done before sealing but will require a very clean work area.

I use the bags with injection ports, I donít have a super clean space and the success rate with these warrants the extra expense IMHO. If you have bags without ports, place a piece of scotch tape on the bag, swab with alcohol and once you inject though it, place a second piece over the hole.

20

QUOTE
Fun Fact: I over filled these bags... Oops.



Wipe the area over the port or tape with rubbing alcohol. Insert your sterile needle and inject the bag.

Use 2-3CC's of spore water or 5-6 of Myc Suspension per bag.

Mix the bag after injecting and place in a dark place. 75-80deg is ideal.


Step 6 - Colonization


5-7 days after inoculation you will see white growth from germinating spores.
Mix the bags well once you see good growth.
In 11-14 days the bags will be 100% colonized.

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archive material
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pshroom (Pshroom)
Senior Member
Username: Pshroom

Post Number: 285
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 06:33 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info hippie. This is going to be
my girl's next project to learn. Her first try
with grain and casings are starting to pin like
mad.
.~*Your eyes go funny but you can't place why*~.
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Cleanjar (Cleanjar)
Senior Member
Username: Cleanjar

Post Number: 575
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 04:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about for the people without a bag sealer? How are they supposed to do this?
Angels layed him away,
Angels layed him away,
Layed him six feet under, the clay,
Angels layed him away.
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Pskovinsky (Pskov)
Senior Member
Username: Pskov

Post Number: 618
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 04:08 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think sans bag sealer your stuck trying to do it with a hot knife or something(doubt it will work) or your out of luck... part of the reason i have yet to do any bag work :P


hopefully i'm wrong and missing some wonderful sealerless-bag-sealer tek in the archives.
--Pskov(insky)
A multiclass lvl 1 psion, lvl 2 fighter, and lvl 6 auto mechanic.
Stats unknown.
(no, it's not my car, wish it was)
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Cleanjar (Cleanjar)
Senior Member
Username: Cleanjar

Post Number: 579
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 04:58 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I successfully used some bags a couple years ago with cubensis, and i just crunched and wrapped the end up and stapled it a bunch of times, it worked, but man, those bag sealers are sweet.. the hot knife probably wouldn't work very good.. i have a few bags i'm getting ready to try out now, but don't have a stapler anymore..
Angels layed him away,
Angels layed him away,
Layed him six feet under, the clay,
Angels layed him away.
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Pskovinsky (Pskov)
Senior Member
Username: Pskov

Post Number: 624
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 05:12 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

staplers are a bit cheaper and easier to find then impulse sealers are :P

If stapling works, you might try twisting it and tieing a knot... or duct tape... ghetto growbag :P
--Pskov(insky)
A multiclass lvl 1 psion, lvl 2 fighter, and lvl 6 auto mechanic.
Stats unknown.
(no, it's not my car, wish it was)
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aldous schenk (Aldous)
Member
Username: Aldous

Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 06:42 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.C. for 2.5 hours? Isn't that overkill? I've done all kinds of grain in mycobags, P.C.'d for 45 minutes and never had a prob.

I also seal prior to P.C.ing using a Foodsaver vacuum sealer. This machine is a great investment, as you can also use it to vacuum seal mushies for long term storage.
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Moderator
Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 07:35 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

What about for the people without a bag sealer? How are they supposed to do this?




You can use some wide professional grade masking tape.


quote:

P.C. for 2.5 hours? Isn't that overkill? I've done all kinds of grain in mycobags, P.C.'d for 45 minutes and never had a prob.




I dont think its overkill. Quarts of rye should go for 90. Spawnbags for 2 hrs minimum is what id recommend.


"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 14953
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 07:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i saw a pretty nifty way to do bags
using a short section of pipe [plastic]
he just stuck the mouth of the bag thru the pipe,
folded it back and tied it on with a rubberband
then filled the tube/neck formed with polyfil

see http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/17123.h tml?1037151194
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David Drainman (Disturbed)
Member
Username: Disturbed

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 07:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very cool hip... i think i am going to try that w/the free autoclavable bags i got from www.associatedbag.com seing as how they don't have injection ports...

i'm not, not licking toads
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Matt (Soup)
New member
Username: Soup

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 09:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my first post on these boards. I'm new to growing, and I almost definitely going to use this bag tek. After reading through this guide, I only had one question...

Step 6 - Colonization


5-7 days after inoculation you will see white growth from germinating spores.
Mix the bags well once you see good growth.
In 11-14 days the bags will be 100% colonized.


What does mix the bags mean exactly? Can anyone give me a detailed description of this? Thanks.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 14964
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

knead the material up, to spead the myc. around faster
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soup (Soup)
New member
Username: Soup

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 08:04 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the response Hippie3. So mixing the bags doesn't harm the myc.? It just seems counterintuitive to me, since up to this point you have to be so careful and sterile, and now you just go and crush it all.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 15031
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 01:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ah, but it's sealed so it stays sterile,
all you are doing is to help it spred faster
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dat-jerk-from-triplehelix (Tyler_durden)
Senior Member
Username: Tyler_durden

Post Number: 293
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 03:56 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to Mycotopia soup....

"What about for the people without a bag sealer?"

Some people I know have used an iron insulated a little with a towel or cloth. You have to play around with it a bit but it will seal the bag.

"You are not your website"
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 15062
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 05:08 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Some people I know have used an iron insulated a little with a towel or cloth



nice tip


(Message edited by admin on March 07, 2004)
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soup (Soup)
New member
Username: Soup

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again for clearing that up. Do you think instead of mixing the bag, I could transfer it to a case and do a casing tek once the cake is 100% colonized? I think the strain I'm growing (Mazatapec) would do better if the cake was a solid block, since from the pictures I've seen the 'shrooms like to grow out the side as well as off the top. Or, if I mix the bag, will the grain re-solidify enough to case it?
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 15173
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 01:38 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

correct, the mycellia will re-grow to fill the entire bag faster. it's the same principle behind shaking jars of grain. casing it isn't a problem.
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Sweetness (Sweetness)
Moderator
Username: Sweetness

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 06:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doc007
*And without a thought of the consequence
I gave in to my decadence* Pink Floyd