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Billy (Billy_bob)
New member
Username: Billy_bob

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 07:17 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,
I am planning on growing some Mexican A sclerotia this summer....

They will be in rye grain and inside micro-filter bags (from a reputable source).

I will then put all the bags inside a large wooden box that I have with the lid slightly open (for air exchange)...I may have a heated cable that will keep the temp correct if it drops during the night.

I will keep a space between the heating cable and the bags...The cable is the same as is used for terriums and doesn't get very hot..Just warm..It will be connected to a thermostat...

Questions:

**Will the dry heat of summer dry out the grain or should the bag be able to hold the moisture?

**Is it OK that the bags are in a dry space, should they be somewhere humid?


The dryness is my concern even though they will be in sealed bags....

Can anyone confirm that it will be OK?

Thanks!
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myco domesticus (Mycophil)
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Username: Mycophil

Post Number: 963
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 11:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mine dried out last year but that was a heatwave if i remember correctly :-) sometimes hot is too hot i found out
if you put a layer of plastic inside the wooden box ,the humidity will keep better ,they seem to prefer darkness ,so a hole with polyfill would provide enough air exchange without bringing light in
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein
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Billy (Billy_bob)
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Username: Billy_bob

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:39 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Thanks for the reply...Do you know if there is a good level of humidity to have for grain in bags.

Obviously the grain will be pre-soaked etc but I am worried that they wil dry if their outside environment is too dry =(

Good thinking on the polyfill hole on the box...I may open it once a day too to allow fresh air in...I mean the bags have a patch so should keep out the nasties!

I was thinking of misting inside the box every so often but I don't want it to start growing mould inside the box....dear oh dear...

Has anyone else got any pointers?..or does anyone have a humidity reading for the area where the bags are to be kept?....Thanks a lot!



(Message edited by billy_bob on April 13, 2004)
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2065
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't worry about them drying out. Rye grass seed is the normal medium for sclerotia producers. I'd go with what we know works. Be sure to add a pinch of gypsum to each bag of grass seed before you add the water(I use coffee) to hydrate it. Use half as much water as rye grass seed. In other words, if you use two cups of grass seed, use one cup of weak coffee or water. Don't forget the gypsum. It will keep the grass seed from clumping up and being hard to shake later.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Billy (Billy_bob)
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Username: Billy_bob

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 06:32 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi SkyPilot,
Thanks for the re-assurance...have you has luck with the coffee then? I read about it but there seemed still to be some debate about it?

yep organic rye grass seed!
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Solly the Printman (Soliver)
Senior Member
Username: Soliver

Post Number: 788
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 08:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry about them drying up - what you want
is to CLOSE the air supply off as much as possible.
After the bags are fully colonized, just put them
in a box (pack them tightly to reduce air circulation)
put the box up in a closet, under a bed, etc., and
forget you ever put them there.
Many months later you'll have mucho potent sclerotia.

Unlike fruiting mushrooms, the sclerotia form best
in a non-fruit environment; no light, no fresh air,
etc.. it's how the fungus lies dormant for years,
so you want to force it into this stage - not
really hard; let it colonize - it'll run out of
fresh food and then decide to hibernate (form sclerotia)
until you pull it out, give it light, food, air,
etc.

Not sure I'd experiment with coffee yet w/ these,
as coffee hasn't been used with long-term stored
grains.

Everything I add coffee to seems to contam faster,
IME, so I'd probably avoid it for grains that you
want to let sit for a long time.

good luck,

Soliver

:-)
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Billy (Billy_bob)
Junior Member
Username: Billy_bob

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Soliver,
Thanks for the info! I guess they must need some air exchange tho? I mean they must "breath" a bit, if not as much as shrooms?

Thanks for the explanation. I find it often helps to think of what natural situation we are trying to recreate. Thanks that has made it clearer for me.

I will skip the coffee. I was going rinse well and then soak for 24 hours and then to PC for 2 hours as I have had contams before....

Then use some myc water to get em going...

Thanks everyone for the info....I will let you know when they are done =)
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Solly the Printman (Soliver)
Senior Member
Username: Soliver

Post Number: 795
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:10 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you use a polyfill lid, say 1cm hole filled with
the fluffy stuff, innoculate, let the myc grow,
then you can tape the shit out of that hole -
the little bit of air that gets through will be
enough - believe me, the largest stones will grow
the furthest from the air source (top of the jar).

The air that leaks in by accident is really all you'll need IME.

Post pics when they start to develop & later when they're
done - sclerotia are so beautiful . . . :-)

sol
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2085
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a picture of a couple of quart jars of rye grass seed, three weeks after inoculation by g2g. You can clearly see the sclerotia forming already. The rye grass seed was hydrated with weak coffee. Gypsum was added to prevent clumping and supply calcium. This was taken just before these jars were broken up and used for g2g into ten quarts of rye berries for fruiting, and ten quarts of rye grass seed for sclerotia. I'm a believer in using coffee.
Upload

I have some huge morel sclerotia forming in jars that have been incubating for only three months. I haven't had any problems using coffee with grains. They colonize very fast with coffee , and once colonized, it's very hard to get contamination. My morel spawn that was inoculated into coffee hydrated rye grass seed has ten times the sclerotia as the control jars that were hydrated with plain water, and inoculated on the same day.

"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
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Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 1729
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:34 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17073
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nice, rodger.
i'm still working on coffee
but so far i gotta say that rodger's results while impressive seem to be atypical.
that is we have not seen many able to duplicate rodger's results yet.
my own coffee tests so far seem perfectly normal in every way.
others have had great results while others have had dismal failures.
there's something complex involved that must be only valid in certain specific limited circumstances
and not obvious in all cases.
more study is warranted, imo.
i'm not certain i want to urge folks to use it yet unless they understand its' experimental nature.
but neither do i want to discourage more investigation into coffee when some have gotten good results.
and for sclerotia formation
we do KNOW that caffeine can boost it
so for mexA growers it might be more
worthwhile

(Message edited by admin on April 15, 2004)
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17074
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:55 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

archive material
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 691
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 03:29 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Use half as much water as rye grass seed. In other words, if you use two cups of grass seed, use one cup of weak coffee or water. Don't forget the gypsum




when hydrating it, are you putting the 2 cups seed, 1 cup weak coffee in the jar? is that after you've soaked 24 hours and boiled?
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2090
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 04:33 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No.
Don't try to soak or boil rye grass seed. For a quart jar, I put 1 1/4 cup of rye grass seed in the dry jar. Add a pinch of gypsum. Just reach into the bag of gypsum and get a pinch between your thumb and forefinger. That will be the right amount for each jar. Swirl the jar around a bit to mix the gypsum into the dry grass seed. Now, add 5/8 cup of weak coffee to the grass seed. Put a solid lid on the jar and shake the hell out of it. Next, after shaking, take the solid lid off, and place a lid with one or two small holes drilled in it, and either use polyfill or filter disks, as you usually would for jars. Cover the tops with foil and PC for an hour and a half at 15lbs.

When using coffee, I get best results by using a pinch of hydrated lime into the coffee before I add to the rye. Pour four cups of normal strength coffee into a pitcher. Add an equal amount of water. To these 8 cups of liquid in your pitcher, get one pinch of hydrated lime between your thumb and forefinger and drop it in. This will neutralize the ph of the coffee. Add this mix to your rye grass seed as described earlier.

The reason for shaking the grass seed with a solid lid is that the water has not yet soaked into the grass seed, and if there are holes in the lid, the water will splash out, and even worse, get your filter wet. A wet filter disk or polyfil is almost guaranteed to grow contamination, especially if it's wet with coffee. Filters must be kept dry, or contaminants will colonize right through the middle of them.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Jlo - Ben (Jloben)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jloben

Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 04:34 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's exactly the question I was thinking. How was the rye grass seed hydrated with one cup of weak coffee?
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. -Carl Sagan
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 695
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 04:42 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for clearing that up, good information!


"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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Solly the Printman (Soliver)
Senior Member
Username: Soliver

Post Number: 801
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 08:24 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never thought about adding the lime to the coffee...
that should take care of my contam problems when
experimenting w/ java, and after all,
I have a fucking 5 pound bag of lime that I'll
NEVER use up unless I start adding it to my food..

Thanks Rog & nice pics! Looking forward to seeing your
sclerotia when you're ready to harvest.
Wish I had a better cam - the mature sclerotia just
look so trippy up against the glass - like the
elephant man's ear or something...

sol
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17135
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 08:42 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

ten quarts of rye berries for fruiting, and ten quarts of rye grass seed for sclerotia.



sure hope you can get some pix of them fruiting.
i'd be interested if you get some prints.
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
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Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2095
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 03:57 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll save a print for ya hip. A correction to the above pic. That is three weeks since inoculation with an agar wedge, not g2g. I did a strain isolation on weak agar, which had them producing sclerotia on the agar plates after two weeks. The strain with the most sclerotia development was the one used to inoculate the grain masters.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17211
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 03:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here's that pic you posted at shroomery
of that agar with sclerotia
Upload
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Solly the Printman (Soliver)
Senior Member
Username: Soliver

Post Number: 821
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 05:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeez- that's wild!

I wonder if you could just pop a chunk of that
mycelium into an agar jar, or honey, karo, etc,
and get yeilds?

:-)

Soliver
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 735
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 01:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok guys, I PC'd last night following Rodger's directions.... everything looks good so far....
I tried to break up the grains as much as possible, the ones on the bottom seem to clump more, but i guess that'll be ok... i took care when trying to break up the clumps not to get the filter wet.
i did half coffee mix, and half just water so i can see a side by side if the coffee ones perform better.

"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2148
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 02:08 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's those same petri dishes from above, three weeks later. The petri on the right with the fewest sclerotia is forming the largest ones. Those are marble sized chunks in that dish. The other two dishes have sclerotia now a bit larger than popcorn, but more of them.

I have found this species to be excellent with grain to grain transfers. Quart jars will fully colonize in a week if you use rye grass seed as spawn. Don't forget the gypsum if you use rye grass seed. It keeps it from clumping up, as long as you remove the jars from the pc and shake them while still warm.
Upload
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17465
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 02:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

those were prep'd on 3/ 8 ?
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2149
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 02:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes. With liquid from a spore syringe.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17467
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 02:20 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it's a real pity we can't legally trade in cultures here.
that looks like a very promising set of substrains on the left.

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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 739
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 03:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


I have found this species to be excellent with grain to grain transfers. Quart jars will fully colonize in a week if you use rye grass seed as spawn. Don't forget the gypsum if you use rye grass seed. It keeps it from clumping up, as long as you remove the jars from the pc and shake them while still warm.




Douh, I PC'd them, and let them cool over-nite, in the morning they were already cool... next time I'll shake'em a bit while still warm. Thanks.
Good thing on the G2g's.... I only had 1 syringe, so I noc'd 7 jars, and plan on g2g'ng as many as I can.


"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2151
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 03:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you used rye grass seed, one jar will inoculate 15-20 additional jars for normal colonization speeds, or use it for ten jars and get colonization in a week. With popcorn, I only get five jars per jar of spawn, and with rye grain I get 10. This grass seed rocks!
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 742
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 03:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This grass seed rocks!




For strains other than Mex A?
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 2154
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 01:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, cubies love it. As do oyster and enoki.

When you used the mex a syringe, was that directly into grain? If so, did it germinate? I used six petri dishes, then with what was left, shot 2cc's into a grain jar. The petris germinated and three can be seen above. The jar of grain never did.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me while I kiss the sky". . .jimi hendrix
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 748
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 03:12 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

When you used the mex a syringe, was that directly into grain? If so, did it germinate? I used six petri dishes, then with what was left, shot 2cc's into a grain jar. The petris germinated and three can be seen above. The jar of grain never did.




I don't know yet, tomorrow will be day 3. I did something not so wise, i didn't check with the nursery if they used fungacide. I saved 1 1/2 cc's incase it never germinates, i'll have 1 shot at it left. Also I'm not sure if i had 1 of those syringes that were bad... only time will tell. (fingers crossed)

(Message edited by suckerfree on April 26, 2004)
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 17587
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 02:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why not use a .5 cc in some honey water
just in case ?
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Suckerfree (Suckerfree)
Senior Member
Username: Suckerfree

Post Number: 787
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 05:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i did, but i don't think i did it right... however... today is the first time i've noticed growth in one of my rye grass jars... it's only 1 jar mind you.... but it's a jar! i'll be g2g'ing that sucker! i'm glad i waited, it just took it some time i guess...
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll understand."
- Confucius