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Joe Dirt (Davros)
Advanced Member
Username: Davros

Post Number: 100
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 11:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would anyone care to explain the effects of Harmala alkaloids. I have researched the net and read up on them. I'm interested in trying them, mainly because Passiflora incarnata grows wild here like a weed. Its called a Maypop where I live. Just curious.
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Erebus (Debremus)
Senior Member
Username: Debremus

Post Number: 741
Registered: 09-2002
Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 02:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no personal experience, so this is the best info I can give:


MAOIs -- Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors.

They are antidepressants which are effictatious in the treatment of
atypical depression (vegitative symptoms, anxiety, initial insomnia,
etc), panic disorder, anxiety and (recently discovered) borderline
personality disorder.

MAO metabolizes serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine. By inhibiting
this, MAOIs increase levels of those neurotransmitters. Phenelzine (Nardil)
and tranycypromine (Parnate) are the two popular MAOIs. moclobemide
(Aurorex -- called something else in canada) is a recently introduced
MAOI which is slightly different and apparently not as effictatious, although
it eliminates the hazards associated with the earlier MAOIs.

Tyramine is an amino acid which is normally metabolized by MAO in the
gut. After taking tranylcypromine or phenelzine (but not, apparently,
moclobemide) this MAO is inhibited and any dietary Tyramine will not be
metabolized and will cause an increase in tyramine levels in blood. This
is bad due to tyramine's effect on norepinephrine and leads to a
hypertensive crisis. Blood pressure goes up to 180+ over something,
heartbeat goes to well over 100 bpm, and people who suffer one of these
typically report getting the most painful headache of their lives. Sometimes
a Ca-blocker like nifedipine is prescribed for the user of the MAOI to
take to combat this effect should it occur.

Tyramine is in cheese, wines, and anything aged or fermented. Also,
symptathomimetic drugs (MDMA, amphetamines, OTC cold meds like ephedrine,
dextromethorphan, etc) can cause a hypertensive crisis.

MDMDA, LSD, EtOH, chocolate, yohimbine, etc, etc, etc are *not* MAOIs. At
least they are not MAOIs in any way which would be useful to discuss in
this context without giving a thesis that i really don't feel like writing
tonight... For the purposes of 99.9% of the people reading this message,
and based on the description i've givin above of MAOIs, they are not MAOIs.
These are the chemicals to avoid when you are on a MAOI. People have
a tendency to confuse these two categories.

_____________________________

Well this was my first experience with psychedelics and I loved it! The taste was terrible but worth it. I prepared for the experience by not eating any tyramine high foods such as cheese for obvious reasons.

I started by grinding about 6 grams of the seeds in a coffee grinder.

9:30 PM: I put the powder in a glass of water and began to drink. The taste was awful but I managed to drink the whole thing in about 30 minutes.

10:00: I was feeling different, definitely not baseline but no visual changes were noticed.

10:30: A body buzz was noted but still no visual changes.

11:00: My mind was becoming more and more clouded and things appeared confusing at times. The buzzing would come in waves and with each progressive wave the clouding became more and more intense. Slight stomach discomfort was noticed but never a problem at all.

11:30: I noticed that when I turned my head or looked in a different direction, there were tracers. I was intrigued to say the least and I repeated this several times. When I moved my hands however this produced no tracers. Things appeared strange at times and full of life. Thoughts began to flow freely. Walking became somewhat of a challenge as balance was altered.

12:00: This was the peak. The body buzz was at it's highest point. It felt somewhat like very strong weed or 6 beers with visuals. Tracers continued when I turned my head, ect. Now things rippled as well. Moving my head caused things to appear warped. My mind was extremely clouded but at the same time thoughts flowed wildly with no control. Trying to control my thoughts caused slight fear. I was not tired at all and my heart was beating faster than normal. Sense of time was extremely altered. An hour passed in what I thought was 3 hours. Balance became even harder, like being drunk. Everything appeared strange and confusing but beautiful at the same time.

1:00: The body buzz was getting weaker but still noticeable. Visuals remained and thoughts continued to pour out. The confusion was dulling out and I entered a very peaceful state. I was feeling very content.

2:00: The body buzz continued getting weaker while the visuals also became less noticeable. Around 2:30 I decided to go to sleep. This was no problem.

Throughout the experience there was slight stomach discomfort. This however was not much of a problem because I was laying down most of the time. Moving caused more discomfort. I woke up with slight stomach discomfort. The smell of the seeds is sickening. The experience however was great and there is a slight afterglow.

Sources:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info5. shtml

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=29552
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Joe Dirt (Davros)
Senior Member
Username: Davros

Post Number: 106
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 05:25 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the info
i have searched through the vaults of Erowid and other sites
they sound interesting but i'm afraid of all the possible side effects with foods

Any thoughts Roo?
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JackpotMonkey (Jackpotmonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Jackpotmonkey

Post Number: 246
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally I plan to do a liquid only fast for 12 hours before and after the experience, that will pretty much eliminate any MAOI interactions that could occur. It will also help with the purge (since I would be doing a Ayahuasca brew).
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Joe Dirt (Davros)
Senior Member
Username: Davros

Post Number: 112
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 01:18 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

12 hours is all that is required?
that's not too bad i was assuming a longer time
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 147
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 02:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just eat fresh unprocessed foods that are not on the list. Dont overdo the fast or you will be very weak during the Ayahuasca experiance.

Things that will REALY get you are cheese, cured meats, etc. Oranges, brown rice, fresh fruits and veg's are your best bet. Avoid soy sauce, miso etc. Keep it light..
They're trained to believe, not to know. Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous.

-Frank Herbert, Dune Messiah
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Tehuti (Roo)
Senior Member
Username: Roo

Post Number: 148
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 02:28 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Passiflora incarnata is a very weak MOAI. It is not strong enough to use for Ayahuasca. It does have some very interesting antidepresent/anxiety effects..
They're trained to believe, not to know. Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous.

-Frank Herbert, Dune Messiah