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Topic Author Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
You guys rule!Brad mills Rio 3 1 10-16-04  05:26 pm

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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 224
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 03:55 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, my Monkey's Brother decided to step back to basics and do simple PF jars now that he finally found some at Walmart. This is not any new tek, other than using Visions elixer in some of the jars and excess documentation so that maybe the experts might catch any mistakes.

So...The Elixer came yesterday.

Very clever packaging Visions!

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So snip the top off the balloon carefully:

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And dump the contents into a fresh clean quart jar:

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Carefully fill the ballon with clean water and dump into the jar to get more of the residue. Repeat several times.

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Top off to make 32 ounces (pretty much a quart at 960 ml. Pretty murkey stuff. It didn't smell too bad when it was dilute like this.
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The full jar. Pretty murkey stuff.

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Next post, simple PF standard tek done the monkey way
ShedTheMonkey

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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 225
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 04:07 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, here is using visions elixer in the PF tek for the illiterate. Hopefully the right way. Yell out if it is screwed up.

Ok, its just like on Emerol! BAM! Get your shit together. We got basic brown rice flower, nice small vermiculite, and visions elixer for some jars and water for others.

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OK 1/4 cup of BRF. Yummy!!

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Toss it in the bowl. Yeah, I know, picture happy monkeys. sigh.

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Same 1/4 cup measure of vermiculite.

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Times 2 to make a half cup of verm.

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Pour it all in the bowl. Silly monkey.

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1/4 cup of visions dilute magic elixer. 60 ml to those with nice measuring beakers.

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pour it into the bowl:

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Mix it around with a spoon real well:

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And it should look something like this:

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After our commercial break, we will be making a jar!!
ShedTheMonkey

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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 226
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 04:29 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, simple half pint jars. New to me is where the Tyvek goes but here is how it was done.

Again, get your poop in a group:

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Spoon the BRF and Verm mix into the jar loosely. I like to put it up to the top rim very loose and then knock the bottom a couple times to settle it in a little. Not packed, just taking out the big air spaces and leaving a nice 3/8 inch or so for the dry verm layer.

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Clean the jar where the verm dry layer will be so you don't have sneeky pathways for contams.

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Fill with dry vermiculite to the top:

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Like this:

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Add your pre-drilled lid upside down like so:

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Then a double layer of good old USA Tyvek. I used to put this under the lid but in grains it causes problems so I am trying it out on top in all jars. Hope this isn't a screwup.

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Screw the metal ring down. Hrmmmm...first noticing that the inoc ports are now stealth. That will be a challenge.

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Here it is. A PF style 1/2 pint in the wide jar.

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Add foil to the top for the PC:

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Put it in the 22 Qt capacity PC unit:

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Repeat 11 more times with visions elixer and 12 times with plain water. Lordy Monkey! What the heck are you gonna do with so many jars??

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Here is the PC top showing the current (as of right now) pressure of 15psi. Got another 8 minutes or so...

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So that is all for tonight. Hope this isn't too much obvious stuff. Not sure now how he's gonna noc clean with current Tyvek configuration in the flow hood with live PF classic Karo culture.

Update maybe tomorrow when more to say.

ShedTheMonkey

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grasshopper wilkins (Triked)
Senior Member
Username: Triked

Post Number: 604
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 05:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nice write up.
im gonna use my elixer to grow some sclerotia.
"They are holding weapons of mass destruction"
-George "Dubya" Bush
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pscillypj (Pcsillypj)
Senior Member
Username: Pcsillypj

Post Number: 134
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 05:45 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nice work job well done with the write up.
"I hear colors and see sounds"
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Ramen Cowboy (Synth)
Advanced Member
Username: Synth

Post Number: 91
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 06:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

those pictures were really nice.
its really nice on the eyes.

to me, the more pictures, [obviously] the more i can
envision it. this also means that i can picture
myself doing what you did. it really makes me want
to kinda follow along =D
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 23895
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 12:58 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

archive material


Namaste


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Joe Dirt (Davros)
Senior Member
Username: Davros

Post Number: 157
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 06:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


nice pictorial Shed
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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 234
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, today's update is text only because the following stuff needed to be done as quickly and cleanly as possible and a camera would not have helped but likely caused problems. Thanks to all the kind words of enocouragement from members. Glad others like pix as much as my monkey!

So noticing one major omitted detail from last post the 15PSI PCing went on for about 65 minutes and then the stove was turned off and it come down naturally all night.

So the jars come out and get put in a box to head to the clean area with the flow hood. Having tried to dream up a good way to do the liquid innoculation with the current lid configuration, my monkey's brother decided on a courageous (read foolish) plan.

Here is how it went down:
Everything was sprayed down with this very nice smelling got-it-at-Sam's-Club OdoBan which says "kills 99.99% of Germs" Says right on the bottle kills E. coli, Staph, Salmonella, Strep, Influenza and Hong Kong Influenza, and Trichophyton mentagrophytes.
So what the hell.

Eight freshly pc'd syringes with needles were opened in the freshly spotless flow hood.

Anyway, the first syringe is put into the now topless karo jar in the back of the flowhood and the nice sneezeball is sucked in and expelled several times untill the solution is milky. 12ccs is pulled up, and then repeated 7 more times for 8 full syringes. This is more of TLG PFC which is the only thing he has been able to get to grow well, at least mycellia wise. Second generation Karo jar from original multispore.

So the plan is to just unscrew the lids in the flow hood enough to just fit the freshly made syringe into the tiny gap of a tipped lid and to do this at 4 corners with 0.5 cc of Karo liquid innoc. The verm barrier is there and the flowhood is nice and sterile (tested with uncovered agar with no contams) the monkey is wearing fresh laytex gloves and a surgical mask (tho nothing else as he just got out of the shower).

He used up 4 syringes on the 24 jars. 12 are Elixated and 12 regular. They are incubating at about 84 degrees in a cupboard in the dark.

If these go bad he will change the lid design and do this again a more usual way. There is still enough visions elixer left to do another 4 or so jars so this may get somewhat repeated in a week or two when the newest karo jars (hopefully) of some other strains show some sneezy goodness. Hrmmm...gotta use those 4 other syringes soon...they will sit in the fridge until a plan becomes clear.

Anyway, the monkey thanks you for your kind words and attention. More updates when the magical super-duper elixer growth knocks our lower hands out from under us!

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ShedTheMonkey

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mindless vesscular (Mindless)
Member
Username: Mindless

Post Number: 47
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 02:26 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tell your monkey this:

my monkey does tyvek just like you, but he cuts the tyvek into disks. he noticed the jars are a bitch to screw shut with all that tyvek in the threads. (tip: trace a lid and cut slightly oversized)
when he innocs what he does is unscrews the bands and removes the bands + tyvek and innocs thru the holes on the inner lid; then replace. of course he uses a glovebox for all of this, and takes special care where the band/tyvek goes. (i think he usually just holds em)

i'm sure your monkey knows what he's doing but my monkey insisted i tell you.
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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 247
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 01:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mindless, thank your monkey for us. Good info. The flow hood seems to be really clean so he may have gotten away with it. Definately need to modify the lids a bit more next time.

Anyway, an update for 4 days from noc-up of karoized PFC for both sets:

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The ones on the left are standard PF tek with water, the right 6 are elixerized. Not much difference yet. These are the best 6 jars (out of 12) of each. The standard jars do have some slow or very thinly growing stripes, but the elixer jars are pretty much all like shown. We will see how quickly the jars colinize and fruit! FUN FUN FUN!
ShedTheMonkey

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faht (Fahtphish)
Moderator
Username: Fahtphish

Post Number: 1583
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 05:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sweet.. nice write up. :-) i'm about to start my elixer experiments as well. this is definately fun fun fun!

fahtster
Yo. :-)
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Visions (Visions)
Senior Member
Username: Visions

Post Number: 176
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 06:47 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would definately use more liquid culture to be able to spread it around... more like 1/2 syringe or more... Also a nice way to make sure a jar colonizes correctly is to make a hole in the center and make sure it gets down to the bottom in that hole,,, this will also give it more air supply...

On a side note: I prefer Grains w/manure over the standard PF tek

This was a great write up... Thanks!

Visions
Look around---The answers are right infront of you---You only have to notice...
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pscillypj (Pcsillypj)
Senior Member
Username: Pcsillypj

Post Number: 152
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 04:22 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

visions can you describe the tek you use for your jars or direct me to the right place. thanks.
pcsillypj

(Message edited by pcsillypj on July 31, 2004)
"I hear colors and see sounds"
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Nilla (Nilla)
Senior Member
Username: Nilla

Post Number: 768
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 03:34 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So whats the verdict?
They seem about the same to me from what i see in your pics.
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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 332
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:36 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

So whats the verdict?
They seem about the same to me from what i see in your pics.




Ah...Patience Nilla Grasshoppa.

Here is an update.
First up:
Standard PF with water, innoc with PFC in karo (my slow but plentious strain)
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Visions Elixer in PF jars, innoc with PFC in karo (same jar used for all 24 and all nocked up on 7-24-04):
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Multispore nox with several strains on 8/01 most with water and 2 bottom left corner with V on them for Visions Elixerated models:
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Here are the 8/01 jars that are done and now in front of light for invitro. One is Elixer, 6 are water. 5 missing because of bad EQ syringe grew awesome green blooom:
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So this newbie is seeing very little difference using liquid innoc from same jar, brf from the same source, water from the tap with filter and then a second set with multispore several cubie strains. Inconclusive at best.

Some will be done invitro to continue with the test, others will be cased.

Just hangin and waitin.


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ShedTheMonkey

"The acceptance of indeterminancy is the beginning of wisdom," -- from Mindswap by Robert Sheckley
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The Messiah (Philanthropist)
Member
Username: Philanthropist

Post Number: 21
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 05:07 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey you guys have monkeys too?!!
I never put my lids upside down, does it really make a difference??? Then again i also never use a pressure cooker...
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paradox (Paradox00)
Intermediate Member
Username: Paradox00

Post Number: 74
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 08:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lids upside down = more air circulation = faster colonization... maybe... the choice is yours
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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 359
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:36 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, first the pix then some preliminary conclusions.

Here are the last 6 not fully colinized. One is a visions elixer jar.
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Here are the SporeWorks GT (nice dark syringe) jars that are pinning. The center one is the best out of all the jars. The left jar is the only elixer jar out of 15 to have pins yet and they are not huge.
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Here is The Little Guy's GT (clear syringe but still very nice growth for no visible clumps in the injection)
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These are the freebie Allen strain from The Little Guy. Never heard of it but it sure likes to pin on top of that one jar! Look at that biggie!!
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And these are Hawiian, also from TLG.
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And here is a pic of EVERYTHING! Even my extra big PF type jars from a month earlier (still no pins...) and popcorn most of the way colinized. Under the plastic you might just make out a nice Hawaiian shroomie growing off a casing...

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OK, here are the findings so far.

1) The elixer did not help the particular slow PFC strain that most of the first set of jars were made from. The karo mycelia grew equally slow in all the 24 jars above from that early batch. NONE of these jars show pins yet although they were injected a full week before the multispore in all the closeups above. No difference from filtered tap water was observed in this mycelia or in timing of full colinization. Water and Elixer worked the same on that batch. Still waiting on ANY pins from this particular set.

2) For all the Multispore strains tried on the second batch of 24 jars, there does not seem to be any difference from Water and Elixer on colinization times, pinning times, pinning density (numbers of pins per jar), or any characteristic of growth so far. The Elixer did not seem to make the jars more or less prone to the green meany as the lost 5 jars were all from a single bad syringe and one was Elixer. It contammed at exactly the same rate as all the water jars. No discernable differences at all from this test.

All that is left is final size of fruit on flushes, growth time to broken veil, and perceived potency of the fruit. More updates when there is data on any of that.




(Message edited by shedthemonkey on August 27, 2004)

(Message edited by shedthemonkey on August 27, 2004)
ShedTheMonkey

"The acceptance of indeterminancy is the beginning of wisdom," -- from Mindswap by Robert Sheckley
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mycolord (Mycolord)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mycolord

Post Number: 58
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very nice writeup, very informative and unbiased. keep us posted ya funkymonkey
-unto them i offered a place to grow, and unto me they bestowed a truthful vision-
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technogeek (Technogeek)
Senior Member
Username: Technogeek

Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 06:30 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome. Science is essential. Learning is what makes each generation able to stand of the shoulders of previous ones. Keep experimenting and recording your experiments.. great stuff.

have to admit I had high hopes for that elixer, maybe someone needs to do another side by side with a different strain.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 25353
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 03:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so this was multi-spore in karo,
not closed tissue ?
if so then there's too much genetic variation going to to draw any firm conclusions yet.


Namaste


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fucgubarn fucgubarnov (Fucgubarn)
Senior Member
Username: Fucgubarn

Post Number: 356
Registered: 09-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 03:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

was thinking the same
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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 375
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 06:37 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

so this was multi-spore in karo,
not closed tissue ?
if so then there's too much genetic variation going to to draw any firm conclusions yet.




Correct. All 24 original PFC half-pints were from multi spore karo--all the same karo jar but there is some variance in genetics for sure. It kind of feels like a strain because of the uniformity of slowness and such but definately multispore.

And the second set of 24 jars were direct multi-spore innoculant from professional-made syringes, just the way you would want a newbie to do it. There was only enough elixer for 4 jars so I did one each of TLG (Hawiaan, EQ, Allen), (Sporeworks) GT and a the bulk of the jars were with water. It's kind of cool that the EQ all went Trick-y because it adds another level of data, that of contamination speed. Again the elixer neither helped or hindered. Less data points for this of course but it does not contradict any of the rest of this study.
Oh and nobody should think I was dissatisfied with TLG just because the EQ went green because their customer service was awesome and they were very generous with replacements when things went wrong and ALL the other syringes I have had from them have been clean. It was likely a fluke, a statistical blip in their very professional syringes. Ok commercial over...

What it does show is that for the above cases of multispore innoculant, and multispore karo that there are enough data points here to indicate NO DIFFERENCE in mycellia growth from water to elixer. Not conclusive by any means but 43 jars ain't insignificant either.

In the future when I have a couple of really nice strains cloned then I will have to see if Visions will want me to run another test. But until then I am convinced that multispore has enough variance to it that the elixer does not add any boost to PF style brf/verm half pints of cubensis as for growth.

The conclusions say NOTHING about fruit quality, because I don't have data on that yet. That may be where this shines. Especially if there were some trace triptimines or something that the mushies could convert into Psilli indoles. Wouldn't that be something if they doubled the potency? This test ain't over buckaroos.
ShedTheMonkey

"The acceptance of indeterminancy is the beginning of wisdom," -- from Mindswap by Robert Sheckley
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 25373
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 08:19 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

There was only enough elixer for 4 jars



that's a pretty small test batch


Namaste


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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 376
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 01:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

that's a pretty small test batch




True. 12 Elixer jars for first test and 4 Elixer jars for second. Very limited in scope due to the total of 32 ounces of Elixer to be made from a pretty small balloon. :-)

Hopefully others will have better results. Didn't Visions send out bunches of these test balloons? Been a lot of quiet from all these monkeys on this...we need more logs. :-)
ShedTheMonkey

"The acceptance of indeterminancy is the beginning of wisdom," -- from Mindswap by Robert Sheckley
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 26002
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 06:14 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'd like to hear more
as to anyone's experiences with
the Elixer so far,
any conclusions ?

Namaste


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ShedTheMonkey (Shedthemonkey)
Senior Member
Username: Shedthemonkey

Post Number: 457
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 06:39 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Hip, After a nice first flush on the invitro and birthed jars averaging just under a quarter ounce per cake, they were dunked in the fridge and now he is losing several cakes a day to trich. Sigh. The trich load in his house is pretty heavy right now. Needs a massive cleanup and the return to slightly cooler weather.

The elixer fruits were no bigger or smaller than the water fruits.

This is a big ol inconclusive test. All I can really comment is that the elixer does no harm to the multispore PF cakes as done above. Not a glowing recommendation true but hopefully others will have better and more obvious results.

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ShedTheMonkey

"The acceptance of indeterminancy is the beginning of wisdom," -- from Mindswap by Robert Sheckley
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 26010
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 06:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

frankly that matches my conclusions,
the Elixer effects are small, barely noticable
on cubensis, the most pronounced consistent feature i've noticed is thicker mycellia
i think i'm going to begin to tweak the formula
a bit with some of my own ideas...

Namaste


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Xochi (Xoch)
Senior Member
Username: Xoch

Post Number: 218
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 08:06 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully others will have better results. Didn't Visions send out bunches of these test balloons?

Yes I had some, too bad the entire batch got contamed because of a bad syringe :-(

X

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