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Junior Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:12 pm: | 
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So I noticed how alot of people here have excellent flushes with casings, cakes and such and most of the stuff Ive seen has been related to cloning/strain isolation/substrain/etc. I recently started with spores and to say the least my flushes havent been that well but every now and then Ill get a decent sized fruit. Now is it safe to say that if I were to cut out a peice of tissue from the stem from one my decent fruits and put it in say karo then let mycelium grow out from that and shoot up some jars using that cloned karo then the fruits that come off those cakes will be decently sized? Is getting a print the same thing as cloning? Im kinda confused about the whole deal and cant find much in the archives so if someone could just explain it to me here that would be great. Thanks
Peace
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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paradox (Paradox00)
Senior Member
Username: Paradox00
Post Number: 251
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:27 pm: |
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Yes if you drop tissue from a good size fruit into Karo it will grow and you will get an exact clone of the fruit. Inject that myc into some jars and boom, you got urself some cloned myc.
If you get a print you only get spores, which starts the entire reproductive cycle over and thus gives you different DNA than the mushy you took the spores from. So no, its not the same thing as cloning.
-=Take the blue shroom, and see how deep the rabbit hole goes=-
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juschillin (Lemonhead)
Junior Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:45 pm: |
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thanks alot paradox, ill be giving this a try sometime this week or next
Peace
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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I_am_me (I_am_me)
Moderator
Username: I_am_me
Post Number: 2707
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:47 pm: |
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Make sure you perform the process in a glovebox and follow one of the teks in the archives.
http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2571.ht ml?1085106418
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."
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pscillypj (Pcsillypj)
Senior Member
Username: Pcsillypj
Post Number: 357
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:57 pm: |
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karo is awsome IMO....
try it see how it
works out...
pcsillypj
"I hear colors and see sounds"
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alkie Lloyd (Spdrcer987)
Intermediate Member
Username: Spdrcer987
Post Number: 59
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:25 pm: |
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I haven't read anything about karo. Does karo do the same thing as agar? Do you do karo in petri dishes? Also, I've read older cloning teks that mention slants or slanted test tubes. Do you need to do those? Can't you just use petri dishes? Thanks. |
GOLLY (Golly)
Senior Member
Username: Golly
Post Number: 120
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 10:54 pm: |
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The Karo/water solution in a jar is commonly used as the second step in expanding the mycelial mass ...The first step would b to isolate a vigorously growing section of mycelium from the Petri dish,which would be harder to do in slant tube...I found that working with Agar takes practice and coordination in a very sterile environment.... |
rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Moderator
Username: Skyypilot
Post Number: 3857
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:20 pm: |
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Bear in mind, if you take a clone from a crappy producing substrain, you'll get nothing but crappy producing mycelium.
Strain isolation must be done in the two dimensional space of agar. A single drop of spore solution from a syringe can be isolated into a hundred or more strains. Once you have a good fruiting substrain isolated, use grain to grain transfers to multiply the mycelium.
"Whatever it is, that girl put a spell on me". . .jimi hendrix
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john p dillinger (Dillinger)
Intermediate Member
Username: Dillinger
Post Number: 52
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
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how easy is it to get a carpeting of relatively large zooms via cloning? Say you just clone a large zoom, will that just assure you get all big zooms? If so, is it a lot of trial and error to get what i wanted from the first question?
I have some GC on agar that is isolated. I understand, that if it isn't a clone, then its a shot in the dark. It could just be a strong mycelium grower. Are the odds still in my favor that it will be descent yeilder? (or wouldn't they be just the same % odds as a spore needle, you would just get faster spawn colonization since it doesn't have to compete with other mycelium colonies)
what the hell is a microscope? is it a part of your digestive system?
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GOLLY (Golly)
Senior Member
Username: Golly
Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:22 am: |
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I think if U clone your best mush then spawn to multiple casings,then again clone the best shroom from the most prolific of those casings--then u should be on your way towards your goal....At some point though i have read that the life force begins to weaken,but not sure if this occurs after 50 or 5000 times around.... |
paradox (Paradox00)
Senior Member
Username: Paradox00
Post Number: 252
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:49 am: |
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I've heard a rough estimate of how long you can use it is 1 year.
-=Take the blue shroom, and see how deep the rabbit hole goes=-
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juschillin (Lemonhead)
Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 03:32 pm: |
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Well see I had this cake I dunked and is on its 2nd flush and I only got 1 big shroom off it and nothing else and was thinking about using that to clone but since it was only one shroom does this mean its not a great fruiter. Like if I cloned that tissue for casings would I get like one or two big shrooms on that whole casing or would the whole casing be a bunch of big shrooms or is it all just a game of chance. thanks for the info.
Peace
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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GOLLY (Golly)
Senior Member
Username: Golly
Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 09:50 pm: |
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I would not clone any thing that was'nt Outstanding in ALL the traits your looking for...but maybe worthwhile as a test subject,so u can get your procedure down for when that day comes... |
alkie Lloyd (Spdrcer987)
Intermediate Member
Username: Spdrcer987
Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
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From what I understand about cloning, even if there was only one shroom on the cake, if that shroom was big you should be fine. Put some of that tissue on agar and isolate it. What you will get is flushes of the original shroom not the original flush. Each shroom from a regular inoculated cake has different DNA, thus you may get one awesome fruit and the rest might suck, but that one awesome fruit is definately worth isolation. |
juschillin (Lemonhead)
Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:55 am: |
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great, thanks for the help
Peace
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Moderator
Username: Skyypilot
Post Number: 3883
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 02:44 am: |
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If you're not going to isolate on agar, then just keep making cakes via multispore until you get a very nice yielder, that gives lots of large fruits, then clone fruits from that cake to grow again.
"Whatever it is, that girl put a spell on me". . .jimi hendrix
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juschillin (Lemonhead)
Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:59 am: |
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whats multispore?
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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batteriesnotincluded (Panic)
Advanced Member
Username: Panic
Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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spore syringes, or scraping spores off a print. |
Greenthumb (Greenthumb300)
Senior Member
Username: Greenthumb300
Post Number: 102
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:28 am: |
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this question mainly for rodger. can you take pint jars fill them say a quarter full br or pf style cake. noc them up, let them fruit, and clone the best substrain this way(it is my understanding that the dominant myc will take over such a small medium,thus isolating itself). just an idea i had until i can get a flow hood.
93
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1792
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:43 am: |
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quote:can you take pint jars fill them say a quarter full br or pf style cake. noc them up, let them fruit, and clone the best substrain this way
That is what Roger was talking about.
Link:Cloning A way to select the shrooms that do the best with your tek/environment/way of growing(combine with Liquid Culture to massively increase your production)
Link:Liquid Culture: Karo/Honey/Dextrose Q&A Ways to increase the amount of inoculate available(grow solution) without buying more syringes or prints(can also be combined with Cloning).
Hope this helps
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1793
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:44 am: |
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quote:whats multispore?
Link:Glossary If you don't understand a term look it up here.
Link:Archives Has all of the collected wisdom, and information needed to be successful in this hobby(there is alot of info there, check the archives out yourself, updated often).
Hope this helps
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1794
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:49 am: |
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quote:I recently started with spores and to say the least my flushes haven't been that well but every now and then Ill get a decent sized fruit
Additional ways of getting large/plentiful fruit, besides
cloning the biggest shroom, is to make sure you have your
tek down and you optimize your growing conditions to give
the spores the best chance to be their best.
Hope this helps
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1795
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:57 am: |
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quote:Is getting a print the same thing as cloning?
A print has multiple different spores so it is called
a multi-spore inoculation.
Sort of having several brothers and sisters all being
dropped in the same location.
They all have the same parent and so have similar characteristics
but some will do better, and some worse, in the new environment,
than the others will.
A clone is like having identical twins/triplets/etc that
have been raised exactly the same way and each one can
be expected to do just about exactly as well or as poorly
as the others given that everything else is the same.
Hope this helps
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1796
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 04:03 am: |
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quote:At some point though i have read that the life force begins to weaken,but not sure if this occurs after 50 or 5000 times around....
Three generations are about the furthest you want to
clone a clone of a clone before you go back to a print.
Otherwise you risk the shrooms getting weak and not producing.
But you can then take a clone of the best of the print
and start over cloning your three generations.
With liquid culture you can make up a lot of solution even so.
Hope this helps
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juschillin (Lemonhead)
Member
Username: Lemonhead
Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:42 pm: |
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wow, every question ive ever had about cloning was answered right here. thanks for the excellent input.
Peace
Why do we do it? Because we choose to live the dream instead of choosing to live the life.
-Darren Aronofsky
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Imok Urok2 (Imok)
Moderator
Username: Imok
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:53 pm: |
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Pretty good conversation if I do say so myself 
archive material to clones
Hope this helps
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