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Scrape between Flushes? - 1

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Cabal (Cabal)
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am just about finished with my first flush on a PF cake. I dunked the cake at birth and so I wasn't going to dunk again. I wanted to know how to clean the cake so it can flush again. I am afraid to touch it for fear that I will bruise the hell out of it. Will it recover? What should I do?
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

take a sharp knife, and cut away all Aborts and fungal tissue. I gently scrape the surface of the cake, cutting into the skin. You will bruise it a little, but it's a tough little dude, don't worry. Dunk it for six hours or more, then rebirth. It'll flush and be ready for cleaning and dunking again in a couple weeks.

Alternate: take a fork and scrape the cake with the tines until it's all roughed up...it stimulates new mycelium, the fuzzy kind.

Also, dunking has its drawbacks, too. Some cakes don't seem to like being dunked. So take a drill and a straw-sized bit, drill a hole in the top of the cake, and insert a straw. Fill the straw with water. Or you can inject the cakes with clean water from a syringe, too. Or you can take a spoon, scoop out the center of the cake, and fill with vermiculite, and water it. The verm holds lots of moisture. Then add the core to a 'wafertek' style tray.

All these methods work similarly for me. The basic idea is cakes get dry and stop fruiting. They need water, so you have to keep them hydrated somehow.
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Cabal (Cabal)
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Lichen. I will take advice from you anytime.
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adam m! (Dankboy)
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:28 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have found that taking a spoon and scraping it up...like lichen said with a fork...works great...i just scrape the crap out of the outside edges and top/bottom, dunk overnight and rebirth with the double-ended casing tek...works great every time so far :)
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Tripitydoodah (Tripitydoodah)
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:40 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hello ,
first, thanx for all the info., you people are real people, lol. if someone could answer for me a question. can H2O2 and H2O be sprayed onto a contaminated cake ? What effects does H2O2 have on mycelium?
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Vitticeps (Admin)
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:52 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In lower concentrations peroxide will not harm mycelium. Peroxide however doesn't seem to have too profound an effect on most contams. It does well agianst cobweb mold but pretty much any other contam is fairly resistant to 'mycelium safe' concentrations of h2o2. I used about 4 capfuls of h2o2 per liter of water in my sprayer as a preventative measure. Never encountered any contams so I can't really say if it worked or if I was lucky.
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Saluras (Saluras)
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 12:56 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use a sharp knife and flick the primordia/shrooms when cleaning. I wouldn't recommend peeling it like an apple.
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Cabal (Cabal)
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 02:20 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took the cakes and cleaned them as best I could. I did not peel them or scrape them gently with a fork. I just removed the abhorts and dunked them. Then I double end cased them in my terrarium. Do you think I will still get a second flush? Maybe next time I should scrape them with a fork?
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 01:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you see, if you do not scrape or scratch or peel the outside, it sometimes has a hard 'shell' or 'matting' that is impervious to water and can slowly turn yellow and become susceptible to contams.

When you scrape them, they spring back and become fuzzy right away. It seems to stimulate them.`
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Saluras (Saluras)
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 11:36 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you should get a 2nd flush. scraping or scratching will help water to get in and can increase yields (it works great on straw beds)
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 12:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I Dunk after I clean.

Dunking
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 06:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr Bug, it's usually good practice to, in fanaticus' words, 'peel the cake like an apple with a VERY sharp knife'. This after a Flush. I stress it should be an extremely thin peeling.

It's unnessesary to put h2o2 in the Perlite, usually, but if you're worried about Contams, it can't hurt. I use tap water, no more or less, but my tap water is really good. Distilled water would be about the best, I suppose.
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 07:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When PF says, "peel like an apple," do they mean the entire surface of the cake? I always just did the top and bottom with my Wustoff bread knife. The slice always comes out a bit thicker than I intended.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 08:08 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the whole idea is to clean off aborts and tissue that might have stayed on the cake when you pulled the shrooms off it. You can also scrape/roughen the cake with a fork, it works for me. Rinse under running water.
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 08:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always remove all the aborts and loose vermiculite before I slice. If I carefully remove all that stuff and scrape with my finger or something, should I still use a knife? Also, I've never heard of rinsing the cakes afterwards. Why do this? Should I dry them off afterwards?

Sorry for all the third degree, but if you never ask questions, how will you learn!

Black Star
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 12:12 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, if you are dunking after you rinse there's no point in drying them, eh?

It sounds like you know what you're doing. If you understand the principle that you must clean all carpophoric tissue off the cake, you're ok. It doesn't matter how you do it or how much time you spend on it, as long as it gets done.

Personally, I use a serrated steak knife to clean my cakes...especially the ones with hundreds of aborts. I just cut the bottom (top)off, scrape the verm off the top, (bottom) and scrape around the sides to make sure it's all rough. Then dunk, and in 2-3 days they're fuzzing up, and within a week or so I have new shrooms popping up.
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 02:44 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Muchas gracias. Actually, I've never dunked before, but I will soon!

I'm trying to keep a video diary of the whole experience. Should make for some VERY interesting viewing. I'll let you know in about two months when it should be done!
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littlebro (Littlebro)
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

after a pf tek terrarium flush, i clean the cakes off and scratch them with a fork and dunk them for about twelve hours. instead of putting them back into the terrariums, can i put them into their half pint jars to recover? then in a couple weeks they could go into the terrariums to flush again.
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You could put the cakes back in big jars to fruit after a dunk if you want, (if that is what you are asking) a little wet perlite in the bottom might help if the jar is very big like a quart or larger.

I would caution against scratching though and here is why....

The reason a cake is so resistant to contamination is that all the available food is covered by mycellium. When you scratch a cake, you expose uncolonized food to the air where contams can get to it and get a foothold in your cake.

In other words... a scratched cake is much more succeptable to contamination than a fully colonized unscratched cake.

I'd just clean of all mushroom tissue... dunk 'em and fruit them like you normally would
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relic (Relic)
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 08:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you put them back in the jar, i'd make sure to have polyfil vent in the lid.
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Saney (Saney)
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I scartched my cakes then dunked them for 16 hours.. worked great.
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:38 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That may be true... but a scratched cake is indeed more succeptable to contaminants from the open air
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littlebro (Littlebro)
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 08:34 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks guys, from myself and the babies who are soon to be.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't worry, it will be fine and you don't need to do anything to it. You can peel them, scrape them with a fork, scratch them with your fingernails, rub them, gouge them, cut them into pieces, and they still fruit. Think about wafer tek and the crumble tek and blending them up and mixing them with other substrates etc.
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:09 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate to disagree Lichen.... but when you expose available food to the air and leave it at fruiting temperatures you do risk the possibility of something besides the mycellium using it for food.

With a colonized cake... we are just trying to get it fruit again so we don't expose it to the vegetative growth type of heat that the methods (casing and running spawn) mentioned by Lichen are exposed to.

Since the cake is not in a vegetaative growth type of mode when we are trying to fruit it..... other things, like mold, have a better chance of getting a foothold on our babies(cakes).

The first time I ever cleaned my cakes (after their first flush) i scraped the shit out of the outside of 'em and like half of them got green mold on 'em.

I've gotten the green mold with the sliced up or crumbled cake casings prior to first flush also.

It is a good idea to try not to expose any more uncolonized rice particles to the air than you have to.

Trippysmurf.... Lichen is right in that you'll probably be just fine.... but if it makes you feel any better, you could always give the spot a little zap of 10 to 1 water to hydrogen peroxide spray without any ill effects.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 02:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no arguement there. Uncolonized food particles are vulnerable.

Usually cakes won't mold or rot until they are old and when this happens it's more old age than other factors.

Shroom Glossary