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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 02:52 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had the following dream:

I cooked up 50g caapi and 50g viridis seperately. I used no acidification at all, just loads of straight purified water. The 1st extraction was 6hrs. The second was 2hr, overnight soak, and another 2 hours the following morning. Temperatures were a bit higher than my first brew, ranging up to 90*C. I filtered the same way.

Alarm bells rang when there didn't seem to be half as much white crystals in the sediment as were expected. Drank viridis 1 hr after caapi. Had to eat some fatty food after a while to make it kick in. Didn't puke anything up. Only got mild trippy effects, a brief and very weak aya vibe, and a minor squirt of diahorrea for all my trouble.

My first brew was mega with shitloads of white crystals. I used lemon juice and I cold-soaked overnight. I will be doing this next time.

The brews were quite bitter and nauseating even without lemon juice. I have a big problem with the bitterness and that was why I was hoping an acid-free extraction would work. Unfortunately, the brews taste quite bad regardless. Next time, I have the idea of decanting the final brews, reconstituting the sediment, and just drinking that. It should get rid of the vast majority of those damn bitter tannins and lemon juice. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all, of the alkaloids are in the sediment. I will be letting you know soon if I am right.

I was discussing using no acidification at the end of my other aya thread, and I am posting this message now as a warning not to try it.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep.
next time,
use lemon juice
and just hold your nose until you rinse.
i have ulcers/acid reflux so i'm pretty used to that taste.
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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 12:27 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll try holding my nose. I know it works very well with shrooms. I took loads of notes and learned many new things, so I see it more as a learning experience rather than a total disaster. Spending a couple of days brewing a dud is far better than spending a month or more growing cakes and getting a crap yield.

I noticed that holding the brew in the mouth for a few mins greatly reduces the sense of bitterness and makes it easier to swallow with much less gagging.

The viridis had lots of horrible lumpy scummy bits in it. They must have formed after filtering when the brew cooled, because they were too big to get through the filter. Maybe the higher cooking temp extracted gums or waxes from the herb, or maybe the lack of lemon juice allowed them to form.

The sediment seems to taste more bitter than the liquid part. I don't know if this is due to the concentration of alkaloids there, or tannins, or both.

Gagging seems to be caused by taste buds at the back of the tongue. I can hold the brew in the front of my mouth ok, but if I swirl it towards the back of my tongue I can taste it sharply and feel nauseated.

Drinking the brew warm would make it more quickly absorbed in the stomach, but probably increases the sense of taste too.

Being in a smoky, stuffy room increases nausea. Cool air outside greatly reduces it. Also, unbuttoning my jeans seem to reduce nausea too, apparently by simply reducing pressure on the stomach.

Eating a bit of straight table sugar after dosing reduces nausea. Unfortunately, a strong sweet taste can cause some nausea too. It is best to wash it down with a bit of water.

When eating food, my sense of taste was greatly reduced. I don't know if this was due to the aya effect or the astringency of the brew on the tongue. I ate 2 slices of toast which tasted like cardboard. After half and hour they only boosted the trip slightly. I then ate 2 potato waffles with lots of tomato sauce. I could taste these much better and enjoyed eating them, unlike the toast. Half an hour later I had a weak bona-fide aya buzz, much stronger than what the toast produced. I doubt if there was any more fat in the waffles than in the toast. I think it was the tomato sauce that stimulated my digestion and released the DMT.

Lots of important lessons..........
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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 12:33 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with the tannins is that they irritate the stomach, so even if you get the brew down the hatch ok, you can still puke purely due to stomach irritation.

I am praying that the decanting method will work. At least I can save and drink the liquid part later if it doesn't.
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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 03:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hippie3,
In my experience, acid stomach is caused by eating lots of high protein, fatty foods. The gluten in bread seems to be a culprit too. Reflux seems to be caused by eating too much, too fast, especially with lots of liquids, causing the stomach to become over-full. I can't say I've gotten used to the taste of it.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:21 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol
thx, doc.



Quote:

I noticed that holding the brew in the mouth for a few mins greatly reduces the sense of bitterness and makes it easier to swallow with much less gagging.




damn, you are one crazy bad ass mf.
i could never try that,
i'd blow chunks across the room in mere seconds.
next time i'm thinking to coat my mouth/tongue with peanut butter to help shield it from the brew.
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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 08:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mere thought of eating peanut butter alone makes me want to hurl. I can't stand even the smell of it! I heard that technique being mentioned before. Maybe it is the coating of fat on the tongue that stops the taste buds being able to taste much. You would want to make sure to swallow some so that the very back of the tongue is coated too. The gag reflex to bitterness seems to start there. Maybe ordinary butter would work too.

At aya.com, I read about various methods of masking the taste. One that sounded like it might work was putting a few drops of menthol on the tongue, before and after dosing. Maybe sucking an extra-strong mint would help too. Minty stuff seems to reduce the sense of taste.

Other people said that if you try to mask the brew by mixing with any kind of nice drink or food, you will most likely be turned off that food/drink for the rest of your life.

Regardless of what people do, they always seem to end up puking sooner or later. I think maybe adding lots of sugar would work better than most methods. It is pure sweetness with no characteristic flavour. I wouldn't even risk using honey as a substitute. Sugar masks the tannins in bitter tea and coffee and makes them pleasant to drink. I tried adding lots of glucose to the viridis last time, and it made SOME improvement, but not much.
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Leprachaun (Leprachaun)
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 02:14 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a book on medicines which says that scopolamine (hyoscine) is used to treat nausea, vertigo, vomiting, and diahorrea. I also read that the next most common admixtures after viridis are Solanaceae plants which contain scopolamine. If that isn't the reason why Solanaceae plants are used, then I don't know what is. Scopolamine is contra-indicated for use with MAOIs, but a small dose would maybe be ok. A safe source of scopolamine is Kwells travel sickness tablets. I will be experimenting with them after I dream of getting a proper dose of aya into me and seeing what this purge is like first.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 09:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'd be leary of that personally.
proly best to keep the drug mixture simple and let it come up and out if you just can't help yourself.
i often feel nauseous but rarely actually vomit unless i try to eat.

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