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Casing Overview - 1
GypsumKrashMrt4 2 11-02-01  09:27 am
Pelletized Hydrated LimeFishy1Nan5 1 11-01-01  09:18 am
OYSTER SHELLSSYDYSTYKplinkerdink4208 1 01-05-02  05:43 pm
Importance of gypsum with rye grass seedsleepwalker sleepwalker 13 1 07-11-04  05:28 pm

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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 11:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently purchased 6kg of "Agricultural Lime" it is a fine limestone powder..

anyway, i was wondering if this was the correct stuff, as last time i accidently bought Dolomic Lime...

the Calcium is 55% and the Magnesium is 5%
in this stuff.. is that too much magnesium? (as i know it tends to kill myc.)

anyone?
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 03:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

approx. how much would i add to a 1' square bed (1" casing)

kai
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 04:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are so many "limes" out there that there is no way really to standardize the use of lime without going to brand specific teks.

Magnesium inhibits fruiting, you really don't want any at all. Lime high in magnesium is great for cacti, poor for shrooming... I think memory states that over 2% magnesium was very bad, but my memory tain't what it used to be.

In my casings I am using slaked, chemical grade, lime: CaOH It don't take much, a couple of tablespoons, to do a one square foot bed... But this lime is really strong (and pure, no magnesium). Hydrated lime is a little weaker, powdered stone is the weakest. I would use 1/2-3/4 cup of powdered stone mixed with casing on a one square foot bed.

I used about 1/3-1/2 cup of the slaked lime per sq foot in the casing on some beds when I first got it. It slaked the mycellia right off the straw :)
The beds fruited finally, mycellia crawling up the side walls and fruiting everywhere but on the casing, mostly fruiting right off the plastic walls (anything to get away from that limed casing...) Three flushes, not a single contam (nothing could grow on that casing).

There is a happy medium there, a lot less of the slaked chemical grade stuff, more pure CaCO3 & Oyster Shell :)

Nan

See: Oldtimer's Straw Tek
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 07:10 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks nanook...

do you think 5% magnesium will still be too much for the casing? or just use a smaller amount.. (2 tbl spoons?)


kai
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 07:44 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tell you what I would do, honestly...

Use a few tablespoons mixed in with the casing. Then dust off with a few tablespoons on top after the casing is laid down. The tablespoons of powdered rock dusted on the very top of the casing will not inhibit fruiting, and it may well cut down on contams.

Just an idea mind you, I never tried it, but I can't see as how it could hurt.

Nan
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 05:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last time I sprinkled Baking Soda onto pins, they all started rotting (turning black) and Aborting.
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Skippy420 (Skippy420)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 08:37 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where can you buy Hydrated Lime at all I can find anywhere is Dolomite sheeit.
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Karna (Karna)
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 08:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got some hydrated lime yesterday at a building and garden supply store supply store.It has a bit of magnesium in it but not a whole lot. Strangely enough it has a touch of an ammonia smell to it. I sprinkled some over my straw tub per OT and also onto some casings. Hope this was not the absolute wrong thing to do.
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Skippy420 (Skippy420)
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 09:24 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does pure calcium carbonate that you buy in a health store have any Magnesium? Do you have to grind it or do you like shake/sprinkle powder out or what.
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 10:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pure Calcium Carbonate is ideal. It contains no Magnesium, or only trace amounts. You want to purchase a fine powder and mix it into your Casing.
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Marx2k (Marx2k)
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 03:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can get pure hydrated lime at any supermarket in the canning section... it's pickling lime... ingredients: Hydrated Lime
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Saney (Saney)
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 04:21 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<-- got 4 pound bag of hydrated lime (baseball chalck :] ) for $2 at home depot. i love philly.
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monkeyod (Monkeyod)
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:19 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just found this post on the FF thought it might clear up a few things about lime/chalk etc.

Posted by Anno

buffer solution: a solution of definite pH made up in such a way that the pH alters only gradually with the addition of an acid or a base.

buffer (solution): a mixture of substances in solution that resists a change in the acidity or alkalinity of the solution when small amounts of an acid or alkali are added.

buffer: A system capable of resisting changes in pH even when acid or base is added, consisting of a conjugate acid-base pair in which the ratio of proton acceptor to proton donor is near unity.

LIME: CALCIUM OXIDE -- CaO is a strong base and will higher the pH strong.

Limestone(or chalk) CaCO3 is a week base.
If used in form of ground oyster shells, it will buffer the pH.

Gypsum and pH
In most situations gypsum has little effect on soil pH. Use limestone to raise pH of acid soils, and elemental sulfur to lower pH of alkaline soils. However, if soils is alkaline because of high bicarbonate ions, or if irrigation waters contains bicarbonate, the soluble calcium in gypsum reacts with the bicarbonate to form insoluble calcium carbonate. The pH of the soil is decreased to the rage of 7.5 to 7.8 when bicarbonate is reduced. Also (as noted in "Gypsum as fertilizer", limestone does not move through the soil to lower depths. Gypsum is the best way to supply calcium to soil and roots below cultivation depth

Gypsum Decreases pH of Sodic Soils - Gypsum immediately decreases the pH of sodic soils or near sodic soils from values often over 9 but usually over 8 to values from 7.5 to 7.8. these values are in the range of acceptability for growth of most crop plants.

Gypsum Increases the pH of Acidic Soils - One mechanism in which gypsum can increase soil pH enough in some acid soils to sufficiently decrease the level of soluble aluminum to grow crops satisfactorily is replacement of hydroxyl ions from some clay lattices by sulfate ions.
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Vitticeps (Admin)
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:33 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool, good info. Thanks monkey.
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Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:02 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

alright I have to ask this quiestion because I don't understand how to use pickling lime at all.

you say lime is to ajust the PH??? whatever that is??? I've heard of PH in fish tanks and stuff but I dont understand how to use this stuff will someone fill me in please?
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An guy (Boomer)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:01 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, i'll take a stab at it- likely someone'll beat me to it and I'll just be repeating, but anyways...

You know what acid is, right? Not lsd-type acid, but the kinds of acid that eat shit- hydrochloric, citric, etcric....[Foghorn Leghorn] thassa joke, boy, thassa joke[/Foghorn]-

Anyways, so that's one end of a scale, the ph scale. Pure acid is like 1, I think.

The other end of the ph scale is called 'basic', and your lime type materials come in on this end- they're the opposite of acids.

If you have a material that is acidic, it will be in the lower ranges of the ph scale- nuetral is 7-that is neither acidic nor basic.

Ok, so peat is somewhat naturally acidic. And to boot, as mushrooms flush, they use nutrients and create some little changes in what they're growing in, and what happens is, they make the casing even more acidic by some little bit...

But the thing is, they dont' really care so much for an acidic environment- they like a more nuetral growing medium. So, the more they grow, the less they'll grow over time, if you see what I mean- they'll 'poison' their own future growth.

To boot, contams *do* seem to be ok with, and even like the acidity- it's why you're more likely to get a contammed casing the more flushs you have- the little capos is making the casing more acidic all the time- which means they're making the casing more receptive to contamination all the time.

So....Lime, being a basic base, it'll counteract that acid- it'll nuetralize the acidity.

It'll bring things back up to nuetral, shade acidic, shade basic, according to how much you add.

Now here's the part you want to hear from one of the elders- I *think* you're shooting for 7 to 7.5 on the ph scale, which is nuetral to just a touch basic. I could be wrong there on the numbers....

But anyways, so you get this lime, and you toss a bit in and mix it up with your casing material- it's a powder, and it's like adding brf to verm, sort of. (I'm not sure about picling lime either- if it's a powder or liquid, but I think powder, IIRC)

I dont' know how much to add off hand, the pros could say 'a pinch, for this much/type of casing', 'a handful for running a big batch of bulk' etc...

I can't say that, no experience yet. But I *can* say, get thee to a spa/hot tub store, they sell ph strips, with which you can measure some of the moisture from your casing before and after adding a *little* lime, mixing well. See how much you added and how much that took the casing mixture up towards 7- ph paper strips have instructions right on the pack, very easy color matching system.

Add lime till you get the color you want, and voila! You're ready to go.

One question to elders:

Does one need to sterilize this casing, and if so, before or after ph balancing?


Thank you.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there are two sides to the ph balance. acid, and alkali. The reason that trichoderma thrives in casing is that the casing, being warm and moist and in a controlled environment, begins to 'sour', or turn acidic. Trichoderma and other contams like the acidic side of the scale, so if you 'sweeten' the casing by adding lime, it tips the scale back to the alkali side, which retards its chances of getting a foothold.

Green Mold, Trich : Shroom Glossary : Troubleshooting Casings
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Tripitydoodah (Tripitydoodah)
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 01:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

would it be safe to add a little lime to the surface of a flat cake that has mycelium patches. had some contamination that I sprayed with h2o2 and would like to do more. thanx for the help in advance team.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 02:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mycelium is resiliant to lime, and you can apply it with good results. Apply it carefully, from a spray bottle, with a strong solution
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Ryan Waters (Zerogravity)
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2002 - 05:28 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been finding in my research that the two substances being used (with greatest succes) to lower casing acidity are Slaked lime (CaOH) and Calcium Carbonate (Please correct me if I am wrong). If they were both easily attainable and comparable in price, which would you reccommend, and how much to add to casings/sqare foot? (I will say I am leaning towards calcium carbonate)
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2002 - 02:17 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TMC recommends calcium carbonate, in the form of chalk or limestone flour.
exactly how much to use depends on what else is in the casing, and it's ph.
TMC gives 2 basic formulas.
1. 4 parts coarse peat moss
2. 1 part limestone flour
3. 1/2 part limestone grit
4. 2-2.25 parts water
or--
1. 2 parts coarse peat
2. 1 part chalk
3. 1-1.25 parts water

1/2-1 part coarse vermiculite can be added to either formula to improve water retention and fruiting performance.
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Sysyphus (Sysyphus)
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2002 - 07:44 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont want to go out and buy any lime and have some Calcium Antacid pills that are nearly 100% calcium carbonate other than that they just have a little bit of sodium and a little bit of sugar I think. These should work fine right? since the whole point of the lime is to neutralize the casing and this is an antacid pill...
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relic (Relic)
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2002 - 09:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well get your ph strips out and add the pills and tells us a good mix. otherwise your fishing in the dark and better go to lowes or wherever and get a $4 near lifetime supply of lime