Archive through July 17, 2003 Return To Archives | Search

Please Visit Our New Forums at Mycotopia
Please visit our Sponsors

Mycotopia Web Archive ArchiveContams.Trichoderma, Banrot 40wp [t.methyl] & rhodo leaves � Archive through July 17, 2003 Previous Next

Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:43 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trich plagues most of us. I've been in contact with several researchers in this field, and also doing my own work. I've found something that helps. Dried and ground Rhododendron leaves. Use them not only in casings, but also in with your rye/corn. Trich hates Rhodondendron, but mushroom mycelia doesn't seem to mind it. Use it dried and mixed in with the rye at the rate of 90% rye and 10% Rhodondendron leaves by volume. Mix it together before sterilization. The same mix seems to work well for casings. I haven't tried it with straw yet, but I see no reason it wouldn't work. I also see no reason why it wouldn't work with pf style cakes as well. I just wanted to pass this along.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

fahtphish (Fahtphish)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome info Rabbit, where would one go about getting these leaves?

faht
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Soliver (Soliver)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon Rabbit . . .

Git on out that hole . ..

"Heeeey, doc. . . whacha doin down there?"

Why you . . . . Rabbit!

{K-POW}


Do tell . ..

Soliver
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:05 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The genus (group) Rhododendron includes more than 850 species.
which ones work ?
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The kind that grow in the local Rhodondendron garden in the city park. They're unguarded at night.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:29 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure the caretakers are busy trying to figure out what kind of 'pests' are stripping the leaves off. I just get a few leaves from each bush, dry them, then chop em up in a blender before rehydrating them and adding to the rye prior to placing in the PC. For casings, I mix them in with the coir/verm before pasteurization. 'So far' I haven't had any trich on any substrates that have been treated with the rhodondendron. Most nurseries sell them. It might do folks well to have a bush or two in their backyards. Besides. . .In this area at least, most of the Azurescens I've found are growing in Rhodondendron gardens.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 01:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol
i'm not going to go out prowling at night to steal flowers.
gotta be a better way.
any way to figure out what in the plant is actually responsible ?
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 02:28 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mycologist I spoke with at Penn State who is working on this stated they tried extracts and it didn't work. However, the bushes can be found everywhere. Just go buy a few and plant them in your yard. The condos I live in have them everywhere, and they're in all the local parks as well. Here is a copy of the e-mail I received from the researcher a couple of months ago, after I let him know of my successes with lawn grass on casings.

Greetings,
We have been looking at various botanicals that may be effective against Trichoderma but that would not harm the mushroom (in this case Agaricus bisporus). We have found that ground, curly dock seeds and rhododendron leaves are effective in vitro against Trich but do not inhibit the mushroom. We have taken this a step further and tried extracts of these two plants, in full crop tests. The results were disappointing in that the materials did not control Trich as well as chemical fungicides. On the other hand, we do not know the effective rates to use so we are still experimenting.
Thanks for the up date on the work with the lawn grass. It sounds interesting and I would like for you to keep me informed. Most of the industry's problems with Trichoderma (Th4) are associated with the spores of Th4 getting on the spawn. Growers currently control the Th4 by treating the spawn with thiophanate methyl. I am not sure how we could use regular lawn grass to control Th4 associated with the spawn. Any ideas?

Thanks,

This is the letter that got me started experimenting with rhododendron, and so far my results have been encouraging. I haven't tried the Curly dock seeds yet, so anyone with access to these should give them a try. This is cutting edge stuff folks, and I hope some of you will pick up the ball and run with it. So far, I've had good luck using 10% rhodedendron leaves, both in grain spawn, and mixed in with the casing. If we can find a way to treat the grain spawn so it won't grow trich, it's a MAJOR breakthrough.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 02:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Curly dock
Scientific Name: Rumex crispus (Family Polygonace}
DESCRIPTION:
Curly dock, a perennial weed, usually grows in wet areas and is frequently associated with overwatering or standing water in low areas. A member of the buckwheat family, it has characteristic jointed stems, a membranous sheath at the leaf base, and usually swollen nodes. The mature plant has stout stems and can be 2 to 5 feet (0.6 to 1.6 m) tall. Succulent cotyledons are 3 times long as they are broad. Young seedlings vary in color, from entirely green to being red tinged in the cooler months. The long, loosely branched inflorescence has green flowers that are not showy. The stem dies back in the fall while a basal rosette of leaves forms. Curly dock can grow from cuttings of its thick and fleshy taproot. Seeds may be dispersed by wind and water.


curly dock
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 03:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i see those all over.
it's a common weed 'round here.
i'll get a friend to test it.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 03:01 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

archive material
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

polly ester (Carcenogenic)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

curly dock grows wild here, i'll have to try that, i have some pop corn that needs popping.


xoxo
polly
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep us all posted. Put enough intelligent minds to work on something, and mountains can be moved. I really do believe that.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

polly ester (Carcenogenic)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:50 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have never had a problem with trich, anybody have any good ideas for testing the curly dock theory. i am planning on casing some popcorn with coir and then manually fanning the casing. what could be my controle? should i leave one without a lid on it? hmm, being a mad scientist is hard work.

xoxo
polly
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 04:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No problems with trich? Can I move in with you?
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

myco domesticus (Mycophil)
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:22 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

another usefull link on rumex crispus is at 'plants for a future'
http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/cgi-bin/pfaf/arr_html?Rumex+crispus&CAN=COMIND
also interesting medicinally :

Alterative; Antiscorbutic; Astringent; Cancer; Cholagogue; Depurative; Homeopathy; Laxative; Poultice; Salve; Tonic.

Curled dock has a long history of domestic herbal use. It is a gentle and safe laxative, less powerful than rhubarb in its action so it is particularly useful in the treatment of mild constipation[254]. The plant has valuable cleansing properties and is useful for treating a wide range of skin problems[254]. All parts of the plant can be used, though the root is most active medicinally.

The root is alterative, antiscorbutic, astringent, cholagogue, depurative, laxative and mildly tonic[4, 21, 46, 94, 165]. It used to be sold as a tonic and laxative[212]. It can cause or relieve diarrhoea according to the dose, harvest time and relative concentrations of tannin(astringent) and anthraquinones (laxative) that are present[222]. It is used internally in the treatment of constipation, diarrhoea, piles, bleeding of the lungs, various blood complaints and also chronic skin diseases[4, 238, 257]. Externally, the root can be mashed and used as a poultice and salve, or dried and used as a dusting powder, on sores, ulcers, wounds and various other skin problems[257].

The root has been used with positive effect to restrain the inroads made by cancer, being used as an alterative and tonic[4]. The root is harvested in early spring and dried for later use[4]. Some caution is advised in its use since excess doses can cause gastric disturbance, nausea and dermatitis[222, 238].

The seed is used in the treatment of diarrhoea[4, 218].

A homeopathic remedy is made from the fresh root, harvested in the autumn before frost has touched the plant[232]. It is only used in the treatment of a specific type of cough[232].

and also other uses :

Other Uses
Compost; Dye.
Yellow, dark green to brown and dark grey dyes can be obtained from the roots. They do not need a mordant[168].

An alternative ingredient of 'QR' herbal compost activator[32]. (is it the flowers?) This is a dried and powdered mixture of several herbs that can be added to a compost heap in order to speed up bacterial activity and thus shorten the time needed to make the compost[K].
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Smerdly Warplash (Smerd)
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 05:12 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those who've not seen many rhododendrons, here are a few pics from the park nextdoors. They're common in the wild as well in much of the eastern U.S.
rhodo01
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Smerdly Warplash (Smerd)
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 05:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a close-up.
rhodo02
It's interesting that trich doesn't care much for rhodo leaves. I've noticed that this park has ample rhodos and mushrooms. The fat squirrels get most of the edible shroomies.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

THE MULE (Freddyfish)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:08 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't had much of a problem with trich myself.
After reading this thread I thought about one of the main things I do to control contams (I spray a peroxide water solution and lysol in the air and on the walls like a freak).
I was wondering if maybe one put the rhodo leaves and some sterile water in a blender and made a liquid solution out of them to spray in the air would have the same effect on the spores in the air in the room?
Or possibly using the solution along with the leaves in the substrate itself.

I'm going to test this theory, I don't know how accurate my test would be since I don't have much of a problem with the trich. Maybe I'll cut back some on my compulsive lysol spraying disorder to get a definate result.

I read once that Curly dock was part of the buckwheat family, just curious if buckwheat might have some of the same lich fighting properties of curly dock. It's probably already been tried, just an idea as a possible lich fighting substrate material.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:58 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Quote:

I was wondering if maybe one put the rhodo leaves and some sterile water in a blender and made a liquid solution out of them to spray in the air would have the same effect on the spores in the air in the room?
Or possibly using the solution along with the leaves in the substrate itself.



interesting line of research, plz let us now how it grows.


Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

lyqwyd (Lyqwyd44)
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 03:38 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If ne1 cant find rhodie leaves and wants to try this out I got ya... 1/2 my garden is full of giant rhodies... just drop me a line at [email protected] and we can werk out trades... oh 1 question about this breakthrough: should the leaves be dried or used fresh... im assuming fresh but i have no idea... peace all
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

subterra (Subterra)
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 05:03 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't have problems with trich in your area, and your area is also covered in the rhodo's maybe that is some small indication.

Very interesting, any way you look at it. This summer's been bad with the trich here. Would love to have an actual preventative! Please let us know what you come up with, would ya'?

-subterra
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 03:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an experiment going to test the rhodo leaves. I used 2 oz (50G) of dried and ground leaves, mixed with ten jars of rye grain. I boiled the leaves in a pot with the rye, before pc'ing the mixture. It's colonizing normally. On two of the jars, I left them exposed with no lids to normal household air for ten minutes before innoculating with mycelia. I should know by day ten if trich has begun to form. It's now day five, and no sign of trich. (yet) I'll post an update if this works. I have a second experiment going with thiophanate methyl (Scotts Banrot 40), which is what the commercial farms use to control trich.
I seriously doubt that spraying a mixture of rhodo leaves in the air would help. It has just been noticed that rhododendron seems to be resistant to rust, downy mildew, and other fungus infections, even though it's native to moist, cool climates.
Yes, curly dock is related to buckwheat.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:06 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

an idea occurs to me.
i was wondering about how the rhodo could be effective just by being in close proximity to the grain, it occured to me that unless there's a chemical that somehow seeps out into the surrounding grain, then trich could perhaps still grow in there, just avoiding the rhodo parts and going for the grain instead.
so just for the sake of argument,
let's assume for a minute that there is indeed some chemical being emitted that inhibits trich not only on the rhodo itself but also on adjacent grains.
if that's true,
and since we know extracts have proved ineffective,
could the chemical actually be a gas ?
that would explain the evidence so far.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who knows? Good point.
I boiled the leaves in with the rye while hydrating the ryeberries. If it's a water soulable 'chemical' in the rhodo leaves, that should have put some into the rye. I'll know within a week. The other experiments I did with the rhodo leaves didn't involve deliberately exposing the rye grain to open air. With the obscene trich level in my area, ten minutes might have been too long. Time will tell.
Top of pageBottom of pageLink to this message

Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:30 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but one would think that if were water soluable,
the mycologists at Penn State would have found it .