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Mycotopia Web Archive Archive Jars, Bags and Containers- Lids & Filters Polyfil & Tyvek Comparison....Installment #1 Previous Next

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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 05:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a quick comparison of 4 jars containing popcorn. Two of the jars contained tyvek lids, while the other two contained a polyfil lid. The tyvek lid had no tape on the top, just a double layer of polyfil and the ring band.

The jars also contained two types of popcorn, wet and dry. Popcorn marked "Wet" was allowed to strain for 10 minutes before loading the jars. The jars marked "Dry" were dried off thoroughly with a towel before being loaded in the jar.

All jars were innoculated on the same day. They were all shaken at about 5 days in and at about 30% colonization. This picture was taken on day 10.

Pic

As can be seen by the picture, the jars with tyvek have completely stalled out. They grew out fine for the first five days, and only stalled after the shake. Apparently too much moisture was allowed to escape through the tyvek. A layer of tape over at least half of the tyvek is strongly recommended.

With the polyfil lids...the popcorn that was dried before the final pc has grown much faster than the wet corn.

Since the popcorn with the tyvek lids stalled, it was impossible to make a comparison between the growth rates for these types of filtered lids. More tests with alot more jars will be coming in the following days.

Strain in the picture is Texas.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 02:50 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'm beginning to suspect that tyvek 'leaks' over time. i keep seeing green mold on the top layer of my jars after they have already colonized and are just sitting there, waiting to be used.
even with a double layer.
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Dunno Yet (Dunnoyet)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 03:35 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well that explains my friend's first and only failure with popcorn. he never got past 10-20% colonization using tyvek/wet popcorn in qts. he was quite surprised to see how dry the popcorn was after a week or so. the qts. eventually got contam'ed. however, using tyvek/wet popcorn with pints were successful. he's never used polyfill.

awesome experiment, hf!
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new_shroomin_guynyc (Jay)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 05:34 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep. I haven't seen it "leak" hip. I use pint jars. are you seeing this occur in qts? perhaps it has something to do with the initial shaking of the jars and maybe some nutes getting on the tyvek. I no longer just use tyvek and the band, since so many ppl have reported problems with it, I'd like to avoid them all together. I use PF Style lids and bands over the tyvek and basically it acts just as a vermiculite barrier does in the PF Tek. I use the post office stuff and only one layer of it. Nice experiment HF, but it's kind of hard to formulate much of a conclusion on only 4 jars. Do you have more jars in ur experiment? I say this because spores are microscopic so you may be adding more spores into a jar than in others even though ur using the same amount of solution. Or is this myc sollution?
-Jay
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 06:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of just using the band to hold the tyvek in place, why not use the disk that comes with it? Take your drill and drill 1/4 inch holes in the lid. I use 4 holes. It stops the rapid escape of all the moisture the mycelia needs.
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 07:05 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is part of the next installment Rodger.

It is a spore solution Jay. All jars were given roughly the same amount, and yes, there will be alot more jars in the next post.
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john q. public (Jqpindahouse)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 08:03 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would suggest you also do a few jars with closed lids and no air exchange and see how well the popcorn does. Perhaps with as much 'air' in a popcorn jar since the kernels are so big, air exchange might not even be needed.
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Soliver (Soliver)
Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 09:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use the aquarium heater/pickle jar in my cooler
but leave the lid off the jar.
It stays pretty humid in the cooler & I put a dab
of bleach in the water. I have about 25% contams
in my corn jars overall - because of the tyvek,
cooler, moisture, or my methods - who knows?
but this seems to work for me, more or less...

I'm no perfectionist!
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Lifeform (Lifeform)
Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:06 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ive beeen thinking about useing a brand of dish cloth called "spontex" for a filter...they have a antibacterial agent "triclosan" and there about 3mm thick.
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petri dish (Petri)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:58 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love my synthetic filter disks from mushroompeople.com.I bought 100 and haven't used 50 in 4 years of fairly regular use. They are autoclavable and reuseable. I also got some plastic lids from ball and drilled 3/8" holes in them, also autoclavable and reuseable. I use this combo on everything from pf cakes to wide mouth spawn jars. you can make and birth large cakes with tapered wide mouth jars. These disks have not failed me yet! I am not doing anything special and consistently have well below 10% contamination.
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 05:25 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed, filter disks are the way to go. A word to the wise though, if you get bacteria contamination, throw away the ENTIRE thing. Jar, substrate, lid AND filter disk. It's simply not worth opening one up. Better off to lose the jar and filter than unleash that nasty stuff in your house. Besides, I've spread bacterial contamination by using the filter disks over again. I've found that bacteria endospores can easily withstand 90 minutes of PC at 15lbs., so better to just throw them away if that happens. If trich is in your jars, no problem to clean em out and reuse the filter. The pc will easily kill the trich spores dead.
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loosid (Loosid)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Foaf has used the hepa filterdisks from Micron Magic, and maybe it's just their disks, but foaf finds that they seem to wear out.
that said, here's why.
during some early invitro dunking foaf tried a batch that had brand new filterdisks and they wouldn't let the water into the jar at all! now foaf didn't mind because they were doing their job, also when he took off the lid and filled with bleach dunk solution he replaced the filter and the water wouldn't come out either (pointing this out because the water inside the jar had more weight and put more pressure on the filterdisk) and still only a single drop would form and maybe drip once in a while. good.

but after pc'ing them to reuse foaf found that now water will flow right through them and just spraying a little water on them will just run right into the jar like it were just a screen.
seeing this, foaf tried to breath through the disk and sure enough he could now breath right through it whereas before they became defunked it was very laborious to breath through. (as hard as the tyvek filters)

foaf has since thrown away most of the 100 he had and is now using only double tyvek w/tape. the tyvek is easy to get, free, and totally inconspicuous, though hippie's post that they 'leak' comtams once in a while does worry foaf. he is wondering if there is anything he can do to help.

foaf has been thinking along the lines of lifeform's post, to use some type of antimicrobial treatment that works when dry and still allows air to exchange. he has been thinking about microban or something similar. -or- foaf forgot what company offers them, but there are hepa furnace filters (sold in packs of 4 he thinks) that are lysol treated, and these can be cut, used and tossed if necessary.

and so the perfect filter disk quest continues...

thaaaanks!
loosid
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know how many manufacturers are making them, but the filter disks from fungi.com work great.
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loosid (Loosid)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:46 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.flanderscorp.com/Retail/proddetail.asp?prod=11-88753

these are the ones foaf had mentioned

loosid
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Cleanjar (Cleanjar)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 01:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent experiment Highflyer!

Thank you for sharing
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 04:11 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There will not be a second part to the experiment after all. The growth rates were not similar enough between jars to be able to draw any conclusions.

Hip, 2 out of the 4 jars, with tyvek only tops, got green on the top. I am believing that tyvek leaks as well. At least over time. None of the jars with taped tyvek lids, or tyvek over the original jar lids got contams however.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 12:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep, that's what i'm seeing.
if one goes with tyvek,
one needs to use the jar as soon as it colonizes.
to delay is to invite contams.

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