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Mycotopia Web Archive Archive Contams. Trichoderma, Banrot 40wp [t.methyl] & rhodo leaves Archive through August 26, 2003 Previous Next

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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:05 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see my post in general about a myco co-op store here to split the costs.
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Soliver (Soliver)
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think these will work Rog?

Azalea Classifications
Azaleas are grouped together as one species of the genus Rhododendron are therefore members of the heath family (Ericaceae). This could cause some confusion, because of number of related plants referred to by the common name of rhododendron. This publication refers only to those plants which are true azaleas.

Botanically, azaleas are separated from rhododendron based upon floral structure. Azaleas have 5 to 7 stamens per flower, while rhododendrons have 7 to 10 stamens per flower. Currently, there are between 70 and 80 species of azaleas and several thousand cultivars. Our modern-day azaleas which nurserymen grow and sell can be a species or a hybrid. Species are grown from the native environment or possibly grown from seed collected from a particular cultivated plant. Hybrids are developed through a controlled breeding process and are propagated asexually and distributed as a specific variety or, more correctly, a cultivar. Thus, the Pinxterbloom Azalea or Wild Honeysuckle (R. nudiflorum) is a species while George L. Taber is a hybrid. Species will come true to type from seed while hybrids will not.

thx,

Soliver
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:55 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, the ones I pick at work, at home, and at the park all seem to work. I ground up the dried leaves and mixed them in with the grain by 'eyeball' at about 10%. There's no trich on any of the casings. It's too early to tell if it's due to the rhododendron leaves, or if I just got lucky. Prior to this, I threw everything I was working on away. 100% of my projects got trich.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 01:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.atlanticfec.com
BANROT 40WP
A broad spectrum soil fungicide for nursery and ornamental use. It is a combination of the active ingredient of Turban for the control of Pythium and Phytopthora plus a material with systemic action for the control of Rhizoctonia, Thielaviopsis, Sclerotinia and Fusarium. Use separately as a soil drench for damping off and stem rot.

Stock #6026343 2 Pound Bag $57.65
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 03:18 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's less than half what I paid!
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Soliver (Soliver)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 10:24 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rog -

What made you pick Rhodo over, say, marigolds, maple leaf,
etc?

Just curious as to your thinking before I get caught
filching from the botanical gardens here in town...



soliver
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 10:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to take credit for the 'discovery' but a personal contact directed me to some research on mushrooms by mycologists at Penn State University. I had been having some luck controling trich in casinig material by using lawn grass seed, so was passing that information along to them, and asked if they knew anything that might be effective against trich in straw projects. I received this reply to an email.

"Greetings,
We have been looking at various botanicals that may be effective against Trichoderma but that would not harm the mushroom (in this case Agaricus bisporus). We have found that ground, curly dock seeds and rhododendron leaves are effective in vitro against Trich but do not inhibit the mushroom. We have taken this a step further and tried extracts of these two plants, in full crop tests. The results were disappointing in that the materials did not control Trich as well as chemical fungicides. On the other hand, we do not know the effective rates to use so we are still experimenting.
Thanks for the up date on the work with the lawn grass. It sounds interesting and I would like for you to keep me informed. Most of the industry's problems with Trichoderma (Th4) are associated with the spores of Th4 getting on the spawn. Growers currently control the Th4 by treating the spawn with thiophanate methyl. I am not sure how we could use regular lawn grass to control Th4 associated with the spawn. Any ideas?

Thanks,"

I went to work on my own experiments, and have been posting the results here. The rhododendron leaves seem to slow down colonization by a day or two, in quart jars of rye. The thiophanate methyl slows down colonization by two to three days vs. untreated grain. However in my own 'controlled' tests, both the rhododendron treated grain, and the thiophanate methyl treated grain began producing fruitbodies invitro within three weeks of spawning into the treated quarts via grain to grain transfer.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 12:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok, i just called the guys at http://www.atlanticfec.com ,
and ordered a bag of it.
it'll be here tommorow.
we'll see how good it is.
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 01:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hip,
Cool, I was just getting ready to go to the post office to send you some. Now I can have that after work shot of tequila instead!! I can pick and send you some rhododendron leaves if you don't have any growing in your area. Ever find any curly dock seeds? I'd like to try all options. The t. methyl definitely works. When I left that jar open for half an hour, I wish I'd left a second control jar that wasn't treated with t. methyl open for half an hour right beside it. It's been over three weeks, and that jar treated with t.methyl that was left open, and not inoculated, still has NO contams growing in it, but the treated jars that were inoculated with mycelium are fruiting invitro! I'm curious if the t. methyl is more or less toxic than the rhododendron leaves. As a long time organic gardener, I have 'issues' with using chemicals. However, just because it's 'natural' doesn't make it safe. After all, arsenic is a natural, organic substance, but deadly.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 03:47 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very true.
'natural' means very little in many cases.
no need for sending any leaves right now,
i'm strictly small time and tend to focus on
one thing at a time until i get it right so for now i'll play with the t.methyl
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loosid (Loosid)
Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

foaf's feelings of the toxicity of t. methyl are this: if comercial growers are cleared for people to consume a normal amount
(they have to be approved for a high amount i think) of your fav. store bought mushies
(let's say at least 2 pounds of wet mushies) with your steak or at the diner of whereever. then, if a person were to take homegrown mushies grown with the same amount or less, they should be able to eat the same amount of cumulative product, be they store or homegrown.

do you think it's bad karma to add chems to mushies?

thaaaaanks!
loosid
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:28 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not bad karma, but one has to be careful when showing something like this. There are folks out there who will think "if a tablespoon of t. methyl is good, then a whole cup must be better" Those same folks would mix insect spray at ten times its recommended level also, as if you could kill a bug ten times as dead.

But, I agree with the reasoning. If it's cleared for food use, then it should be safe to use on a few mushies. Just don't overdo it.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:56 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so how much t.methyl in a gallon of water would you recommend ?
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 10:05 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering the same thing the other day hip.
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 01:21 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would recommend you start with no more than a teaspoon per gallon. Use that mixture to soak your grain or corn for 24 hours. Then boil the rye or corn in the same liquid to make it absorb into the kernals. After the rye or corn reaches the proper moisture content, PC as normal. It may work ok with less, but I can vouch that a teaspoon per gallon will stop trich dead in its tracks. Good luck, and keep us all informed of your progress. Do a control jar without any t. methyl and one with. Leave em both exposed to the air for a few minutes after you pc. See which one gets the trich!!
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Erebus (Debremus)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 05:35 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very cool, thanks so much for the info rabbit. I'll be chasing your kind down the rabbit hole soon ;)
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drugiedugie (Dugzup)
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 03:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did some rhodo jars of corn and a couple of rhodo pf jars
we shall see what doesn't develop
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 04:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

any updates ?
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:25 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As of today, the Banrot 40WP treated grain is passing the rhododendron treated grain by a mile. The rhododendron treated grain 'began' to fruit first, but has been fruiting really slowly. The t. methyl treated grain got a 'bit' slower start, but is fruiting like crazy. The t. methyl treated blank that was left exposed to the open air still has no trich after more than a month.. The blank is in the middle, the two jars of t. methyl treated grain is on the left, and the two jars on the right are of the rhododendron treated grain. You decide.
b40wp
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:40 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

looks pretty good.
thx for the update