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Miraclet (Miraclet)
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 04:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Subject: grrrr

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<@fahtster> -GLOVEBOXES-
<@fahtster> I will periodically break for Questions
<@fahtster> Links to mycotopia are not available at this time although they will be soon.-
<@fahtster> What is a glovebox?
<@fahtster> A glovebox is a chamber where a sterile environment is created for the purpose of conducting tissue transfers (cloning), grain to grain mycelia transfers, spore printing, making a syringe from print or anything requiring a sterile environment.
<@fahtster> Personally i do all my hands on activities in my glovebox. Including innoculating etc.
<@fahtster> -what is the importance of a glovebox?
<@fahtster> Before I had a glovebox, I did all my printing, innoc., etc. in open air with around a 10 % failiure rate, at least! Bah!
<@fahtster> Now that I have a reliable glovebox, that rate is down to about 2 % give or take a couple.
<@fahtster> I think making the investment of building a glovebox is key in ensuring success in this hobby. Esp. for strain isolation and bulk substrate growth.
<@fahtster> -Three types of Gloveboxes I've encountered in my quest for know how.<@fahtster> SEALED GLOVEBOX- This is usually a clear plastic container of sorts that is modified to allow no air in or out of the inside chamber by way of plastic, plexiglass or any material that will allow for a temporary seal.
<@fahtster> Be sure it's not permanent, as you will need to add/remove items from the box before and after use.
<@fahtster> This design calls for rubber gloves to be attached to the outside of the container and sealed.
<@fahtster> The gloves are then pushed thru two holes on the sides of the glovebox.
<@fahtster> Here are some examples:
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/5245.html?1007582944)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/5245.html?1007582944
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/29655.html?1059173055)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/29655.html?1059173055
<@fahtster> (Link: http://oscill8.homestead.com/)http://oscill8.homestead.com/
<@fahtster> dealy you want the gloves to be long enough to reach every inch of the glovebox for cleaning.
<@fahtster> Lysol or disinfectant is used to clean the air/surfaces within the glovebox. CAREFUL you don't not make a lysol bomb out of your glovebox!!!
<@fahtster> Be sure to let the lysol settle before flaming.
<@fahtster> Couple bads things with this design are:
<@fahtster> !. the mobility is limited to your project size as all materials that are to be used need to be placed inside the glovebox prior to cleaning.
<@fahtster> This causes clutter.
<@fahtster> 2.you may not get all the air clean, and may ruin your projects.
<@fahtster> For smaller projects this design works great.
<@fahtster> Here is an examples of a cardboard glovebox...
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/1399.html?998567608)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/1399.html?998567608
<@mt> any questions guys
<sweetness> when I spray with lysol it causes my skin to temp breakout
<@fahtster> hmm
<sweetness> just wanted to say it's a good idea to cover your skin
<@fahtster> cool
<sweetness> I spray my gloves and sleeves
<@fahtster> how long do you wait until you can flame sweet?
<@fahtster> after spraying?
<sweetness> I keep the gb on for 30
<@fahtster> cool
<@fahtster> anything else?
<sweetness> well mine has holes cut out then hung with duct tape
<sweetness> in their original position
<@mt> anyone else???
<@fahtster> -Type II Glovebox: Postive Pressure
<@fahtster> this is a glovebox that forces filtered air through the chamber pushing 'dirty' air out the two arm holes on the side of the container.
<@fahtster> Hepas are what you want for this type of box. They remove the most contams. From the air.
<@fahtster> Carbon filters are not good for this application as they mainly remove odor.
<@fahtster> Dust masks nor coffee filters are designed for this purpose so i wouldn't recommend using them in this instance.
<@fahtster> And you definitely do not want to be blowing contaminated air onto your projects.
<@fahtster> An example:
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/3162.html?1004069790)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/3162.html?1004069790
<@fahtster> it's a good idea to wear gloves while using this design, the longer the better, as dead skin cells are constantly falling off our hands and arms. Keeping them covered as much as possible is a definate plus.
<@fahtster> A couple good things about this design...
<@fahtster> 1.they offer a lot more mobility in and out of the glovebox. (through the arm holes)
<@fahtster> 2.they keep comtaminated air out through pressurized air
<@fahtster> downfalls...
<@fahtster> 1.Contams. Will swirl around inside the box until exiting the box or landing on something inside the box i.e. Your work.
<@fahtster> 2.The smallest hole in the air purifier could let in more contamination than is needed to destroy a project.
*** Mode change "-m" for channel #mycology101 by MT
<@fahtster> k ready for Q
<@mt> any questions peeps?
<sweetness> cleaning the fan
<sweetness> suggestion first?
<@fahtster> sure whateva you feel like saying
<@fahtster> it all helps
<sweetness> I have pets so lot's of stuff in the air. I need to protect the outside of the ffan in the interum
<sweetness> so a plastic baggie or something over the outside <@fahtster> yes that is what i do also
<sweetness> also, it does need cleaning
<@fahtster> during storage
<@fahtster> an alcohol mister is handy
<@mt> I have tyvek shoe covers with elastic I use for that
<@fahtster> nice
<sweetness> oh great idea
<@mt> and a small alcohol mister
<sweetness> and yes I do need one of those
<sweetness> cheap at the dollar store
<@mt> the misters are like 25 cents at wally world
<sweetness> like...a dollar
<sweetness> great
<@mt> anyone else, or any other questions?
<starflyer> should I feel a breeze coming out of the arm holes?
<@fahtster> yes
<starflyer> k
<@fahtster> im going to cover that a lil later
<@fahtster> just describing the various type
<@fahtster> s
<@fahtster> right now
<sweetness> so that's why mine has the holes cut just a tad smaller after they were originally cut
<sweetness> to let air out
<sweetness> :-)
<@fahtster> Type III Glovebox: Possi Pressure/sealed glovebox hybrid
<@fahtster> this is my favorite
<@fahtster> Pretty self-explanatory, incorporates the idea of blowing filtered air through the glovebox with the idea of using sealed gloves for handling your project.
<@fahtster> This design is setup most like a flow hood of any of the designs.
<@fahtster> As the air intake hole is on one end and there is a hole on the other end for outtake
<@fahtster> items can also be added/removed from this hole. While your bare hands nor arms touch your work or work space
<@fahtster> his is the glovebox i am going to convert mine to, soon.
<@fahtster> Sterility and mobility are a big plus with this design
<@fahtster> although the flaws are the same as the positive pressure box.
<@fahtster> I chose to make a posi-pressure box. I like having the mobility it provides.
<@fahtster> I lean toward larger projects so the ability to mult-task is important.
*** Mode change "-m" for channel #mycology101 by MT
<@mt> questions?
<blodwen> so is that 2 out of 3 types?
<blodwen> of gloveboxes
<@fahtster> well the sealed
<@fahtster> posi press
<@fahtster> and then the two mixed
<blodwen> mines a little different, sort of a hybrid, it may not be efficient
<@fahtster> taking the better of the two and ingegrating them into one
<sweetness> so if I add large gloves and seal them so they are perm
<sweetness> I can call it a flow hood?
<sweetness> no
<sweetness> I need an air hole
<sweetness> converting?
<@fahtster> correct
<sweetness> suggestions?
<@fahtster> the air hole is at the opposite end of the chamber<@fahtster> so the filtered air runs straight across your work
<@fahtster> like a flow hood
<@fahtster> and you don't touch anything inside
<blodwen> I have a sealed box, with dryer sleeves, and gloves non attached, I load through the dryer tubes, and once it's all in I spray the inside.
<sweetness> I have a rectanglular plastic storage bin
<blodwen> will this not work correctly? Will it work for prints and G2G?
<@mt> I have been seeking gloves called arm gloves, oa AI(artificial insemination) gloves for this type of box
<@fahtster> any type of glovebox can be used for those applications
<starflyer> so you need two hepa's, one for intake and one for exhaust?
<@fahtster> not for exhaust
<@fahtster> just the intake
<starflyer> good
<sweetness> and what about the out?
<@fahtster> the exhaust would be on the opposite end
<sweetness> what to use for the exhaust?
<sweetness> hole
<@fahtster> yeah
<sweetness> no filter?
<@fahtster> make sure it's big enough to fit your tools through
<@mt> a hole with a thin filter would be fine
<sweetness> what material
<@fahtster> about a little bigger than a qt
<sweetness> right ok
<sweetness> no cover?
<@fahtster> you could use tyvek
<@fahtster> if you like
<sweetness> wow that's pretty tight
<@fahtster> make sure air can pass through tho
<sweetness> yes<sweetness> I would think you would need something less dense
<@fahtster> yeah probably
<@mt> I know from recently making one of these boxes
<@fahtster> common sense would kick in
<sweetness> oh sure but not here
<@mt> that testing the air flow shows you everything
<@fahtster> a dust mask
<sweetness> yes that would work
<@mt> there is a wind powder sold at hunting suppliers that works great for this
<@fahtster> yeah doing a smoke test is very beneficial in find problems with air flow
<@mt> ya
<@fahtster> btw you ever fix your problem MT?
<@mt> yes
<@mt> the HEPA filter was to thick for the fan
<@mt> so I had to use two thinner filters in place
<sweetness> faht thank you so much. I'm off to party.
<@fahtster> k sweetness thanx for comin
<@fahtster> :-)
<@mt> ok, lets get back to faht presentation
<@fahtster> Well Im going to run you through how I built my glovebox.
<@fahtster> Here is a link to pictures of my glovebox at 'topia.
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/7747/31268.html?1061753266)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/7747/31268.html?1061753266
<@fahtster> my friend is doing some hosting so here is the glovebox with the modifications i made to it since the topia post
<@fahtster> i will post these on topia once it's back up and running.<@fahtster> (Link: http://www.theunexplainedbakin.com/gbpix)http://www.theunexplainedbakin.com/gbpix
<@fahtster> topia is down right now so linking isn't possible but i will be posting new pix of my modified glovebox. Should be up when topia is.
<@fahtster> you can click on that second one
<@fahtster> -Materials-
<@fahtster> 54 qt. Sterlite container
<@fahtster> heavy duty plastic for bottom of box
<@fahtster> metal hanger
<@fahtster> tape (duct/masking) Although apoxy/sealant is recommended
<@fahtster> Air purifier- I used Family Care brand air purifier. I got mine at Walgreens
<@fahtster> First trash the plastic covering that goes over the hepa, this is hiding holes galore.
<@fahtster> You are going to need to modify your A.P.
<@fahtster> The box will say 99% cleaner air, well thats not good enough we need to make it 100%
<@fahtster> his means going over the A.P. Centimeter by centimeter and sealing up any and ALL holes, cracks, nooks, crannies etc. all of them yo!
<@fahtster> recommend you use apoxy/sealant and not tape
<@fahtster> tape can trap contams releasing them slowly over time potentially ruining your projects.
<@fahtster> Do as i say not as i do. Hehe
<@fahtster> you are going to want to adhere the prefilter to the hepa then seal (use a removeable caulk in case the filter goes bad) the hepa to the unit.
<@fahtster> NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT: triple check, quadruple check even, that there are NO possible way for air to get through your A.P. Unit without going through the hepa first.
<@fahtster> Otherwise you risk contaminating your work. just in case i keep all the things like needles, prints, open grain jars, open anything on the opposite side that the blower is on.
<@fahtster> Now that you have modified your A.P, on to the chamber.
<@fahtster> Take your sterlite container and draw out two circles for your arm holes. Make sure they are a little bit bigger than a quart sized jar, so you can fit your tools you will need for your work through them. This should be plenty big.
<@fahtster> Careful, if you make them too big you risk there not being enough pressure going out and 'dirty' air may breech your glovebox.
<@fahtster> Now you are going to want to draw out an outline of the vent on your A.P. That the filtered air is coming out on the top (what was once the bottom of the bin) of the glovebox either side will work.
<@fahtster> now take a hanger and get it red hot and melt out the arm holes and intake vent.
<@fahtster> Make sure you do this in a well ventilated area of course. And avoid breathing in the fumes.
<@fahtster> Just a warning, please do not try to cut the plastic with a knife or scissors, you will end up cracking the sides of the bin. Some suggest a scissors and hair dryer but melting is super fast and easy.
<@fahtster> Now to make the bottom of the glovebox.
<@fahtster> Take the heavy duty plastic and cut a rectangle the size of the opening to the top of the container but make sure to leave and extra 3 inches on all sides so you can tighten and tape the plastic to the outsides of the bin.
<@fahtster> Now cover this with overlapping pieces of tape on the outside, this will strengthen the plastic and prevent tiny holes created by friction from rubbing on the surface your glovebox is sitting on.
<@fahtster> There will be pictures showing this at the above stated link.
<@fahtster> The last step is to attach the A.P. To the chamber. Do this using an apoxy and sealant
<@fahtster> you may want to turn the A.P. 180 degrees than what is shown at that link and make the controls usable from inside the glovebox via small sealed holes on the top of the glovebox as the way i have it now can get top heavy
<@fahtster> Either way works fine tho. As long as it doesn't want to pull away from the seal or tip over it's fine.<@fahtster> The downfalls of my design...
<@fahtster> the plastic bottom means you have to work on a countertop/hard flat surface
<@fahtster> this can easily be avoided by using plexiglass.
<@fahtster> everyone see the pix ok?
<starflyer> yes
<@fahtster> -Usage
<@fahtster> well, you are going to want to make sure your area is clean as a whistle (whatever that means)
<@fahtster> ill the sink with bleach water
<@fahtster> fill
<@fahtster> turn on Your the A.P. On for at least 5 mins. Prior to cleaning and keep it on until you are done with the project.
<@fahtster> Pre-airing out will hopefully dispose of any contams lurking inside your glovebox.
<@fahtster> Be sure to clean your arms and hands (shower and clean mouth with mouthwash) prior to putting on your rubber gloves
<@fahtster> now clean every inch of the inside of your glovebox with bleach water
<@fahtster> let that dry
<@fahtster> i like to do an alcohol wipe down too just to be safe.
<@fahtster> After that has dried, you are ready to swab your tools, including the container the alcohol is in, and put those into your glovebox ( slowly as to not push any contams into your glovebox through the arm holes.
<@fahtster> Remember to swab EVERYTHING before it goes into the glovebox including your gloves, EVERYTIME. To be extra careful i swab everything once it gets into the glovebox also. Now it's SHOWTIME!!
<@fahtster> that concludes the lesson
<@fahtster> here is a link to CFM info:
<@fahtster> (Link: http://www.compositesusa.com/duct_class/duct_class_design_1.htm)http://www.compositesusa.com/duct_class/duct_class_design_1.htm
<@fahtster> here is also a link to the glovebox section of 'topia's achives where most if not all this info is ffrom:
<@fahtster> (Link: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2630.html?1056973176)http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2630.html?1056973176*** Mode change "-m" for channel #mycology101 by MT
<@fahtster> Ok now some Q and A....
<@mt> hey Faht
<@fahtster> yeah
<@mt> What size fan would you suggest for a standard sized box..say 30 gallon bin ?
<@mt> would a computer fan be enough you think?
<starflyer> i don't think so MT
<@fahtster> star was having trouble
<@fahtster> i would go with a blower
<@fahtster> not a fan
<@mt> so a hepa air filtration unit
<starflyer> i have a very small box, about 1 ft^3. and that huge comp fan is just enough
<@fahtster> yeah
<@mt> ok
<@fahtster> that works wonders
<@mt> I have used the 110v computer fans
<@fahtster> cool, sweet glad it's workin out for ya
<@fahtster> they work good MT?
<@mt> and it works, but filters must be thin to allow air flow
<@mt> and that concerns me for long term use, and contams ya know
<@fahtster> right
<@mt> so the hepa system is surely the best, most reliable way to go
<@fahtster> yeppers
<@mt> and they're not too expensive are they?
<@fahtster> the links will show various types
<@fahtster> well mine was 53 smackers
<@fahtster> at walgreens<@mt> not bad
<@fahtster> no not too bad
<@fahtster> has two speeds
<@mt> i am just wanting what everyone wants
<@mt> to know my work is clean
<@fahtster> right
<@mt> and not wonder



<@mt>Just wanted to thank Faht for putting alot of thought and effort into this..and everyone who participated..Some great information..Hope to see more of ya at the next one..

Thanks to Starflier for finding these links for the arm gloves which will work great in any type of these boxes...

http://www.bovine-elite.com/aigeneral.asp

http://www.agonline.com/rei/suppdetail.asp?ID=4

http://www.ag-tek.com/Productshtmldocs/maxisleeve.htmlhttp://www.ag-tek.com/Productshtmldocs/maxisleeve.html




(Message edited by admin on September 14, 2003)
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ridder (Ridder)
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 07:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey hip, MT asked me to ask you to remove our emails at the top. Thx :-)
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:27 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no prob

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