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Still more discussion....mushmasterflexChronic00732 2 02-07-02  08:06 pm
Incubation Problems nuecrew90 14 01-04-02  07:19 pm
P. Cubensis Growth Parameters - 1
The Teks - 1
When to Birth - 1

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Pierno Fuller (Pierno)
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 09:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the best storage for inoculated jars?
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 09:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To grow out Jars put them in an Incubator... Stamets says 84-86*F, 90% Relative Humidity (to keep substrate from drying out). I incubate as high as 87*F. When temps get in the 88-90*F they start slowing down again. You can get by with 70-80% humidity (because jars should colonize before drying becomes a problem).

Store them somewhere Warm, Clean, No Drafts.

If you are going on vacation you can pop them in the fridge.
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Pierno Fuller (Pierno)
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 10:07 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok...il try to ask just one last question...for faster colonization.

alright lets say I dont have an incubator?

In the darkness or in the light?

In a closed box or an opened box?

I put theinnoculated cakes back in the box the jars came in and just put them in the closet..is this appropriate or should I expose them to light?
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 10:30 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They don't need light to colonize, only to fruit. I would close the box, drafts and open air carry airborne contams: clean, draft free.
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 01:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the best way to store the jars is in the dark at 87 degrees Farenheit? Where does one find an incubator in which you can control the temperature and store 5-10 half pint jars? How much would it cost?
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Mushy (Mushy)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 04:44 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have left all of mine in the box the jars came from. Put them under a bed, at about 70ish degrees, I get full colonization in 3 weeks. I could get faster with higher temp, but 70 is the ambient in my home, and that is the easiest, cheapest temperature I care to maintain.
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 05:39 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it best to store them in the dark at 87 degrees Farenheit? Is it bad to keep them in the light? What's the ideal set up?
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Nanook of the North (Nanook)
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 11:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Light... Dark... I don't see any difference as long as you colonize quickly. PF posted a very nice incubator built inside a book shelf: a few 25 watt bulbs wired to a thermostat. Unscrew one or more bulbs if it is naturally warm inside, screw em back in when the temp drops... The thermostat regulates. I think he had a thin wooden cover or cloth over the front of the shelf to hold the heat in.

Try a cabinet over a gas stove, pilot lights produce enough heat to keep em a few degrees warmer, just be sure to open the cabinet doors when the oven is on, this spot can overheat if you are baking a turkey or sterilizing worm castings.

A shelf put up right next to the hot water heater is a good location to place a box. Hang a thermometer and check the temps before you build. Just make sure jars are not exposed to dust or drafts.

Low humidity, especially in winter, can cause excessive drying of the substrate as it colonizes. This is especially true if the jars are electrically heated from below.
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Pierno Fuller (Pierno)
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 12:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the same theory apply to storing Honey Water for faster colinization rates?
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 12:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup: 87*F, clean, draft free
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archive->Grow Chambers->Projects->Marx2k's Pickle Jar Heater Tek

Don't laugh. These work great for incubating jars. You don't need the airpump when these heaters are used in a jar incubator, they put out plenty of humidity for incubating jars and Plates without bubblers. Try the bubbler if you use one to heat and humidify a grow chamber.

If the fish tank heater is not brand new spend some quality time and Clean it up

Put the finished pickle jar heater into the appropriate sized 'maid storage container, and you have a near perfect jar incubator. The smaller 50 watt aquarium heater is usually enough to keep an incubation chamber warm and humid as the weather chills. You can throw a blanket over the incubation chamber on cold nights. Remember to keep the Water topped up with this Tek. In dry air the pickle jar can run out of water quick, so check it frequently.

Here's another: Jar Incubator

How about Alien Tek, PF Tek?

Good Luck.
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2001 - 07:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Standard ligh bulbs can work well and so can a heating pad placed on TOP of the jars...

Never heard anything about string lights though.

Temps should be around 85 for incubation.

A little more or less would do but don't go higher than 90.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2001 - 08:20 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

where would one get a heating pad?
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2001 - 08:35 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lol.... walmart or any drugstore has them cheap(less than 10 bucks I'd say).

If you do choose to go that way.... remember, the pad needs to be on the TOP of the jars.

Also..... start off at the LOWEST setting.

You can also use some paper or thin cardboard as a buffer between the pad and the jars if the lowest setting is still too hot.

Put the whole shebang in a box or something so you can keep a thermometer in between(laying flat) your jars to a get a decently accurate reading.

If any of this is unclear to you please ask a follow up question.

There is a certain fire hazard associated with old heating pads, so make sure to use a brand new one if you can.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just set up a small forced-air heater in my grow room, because drafts and the fact that our main source of heat is a woodstove in the other end of the house, combine to make my growth chamber and trays too cold. It's just a 19-dollar unit, but with the door closed it works just fine. Nice and warm!
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Professor Fustertingle (Fustertingle)
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:43 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use a dog house heater...it's just a pad that is used (as the name implies) to heat a dog house. It heats at about a 100 degrees but if you set it on top of a box of innoculated jars it keeps 'em right at about 85* It was only nine bucks. Works like a charm.
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Merlin of Camelot (Merlin)
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 10:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use a little forced air heater. "Pelonis" is the brand,creamic disc technology, it measures about 8"x8"x8" and heats a 4'x6' closet to 87 degrees on a low setting. On high it does a pretty good job in a 10x12 room Came from Home Depot but I don't remember how much, had them a while.
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Marx2k (Marx2k)
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 01:36 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My friend, she has a soil heater purchased at a gardening center. it consists of long wire loop, and along that wire is a thermostat. Anyway, she taped the wire in a "U" shape along thebottom of a rubbermaid and simply places the jars on top of the coil. Enough room for about 20 half-pints.. keeps them all at a temp of 80 at all times and consumes about 10 cents per month in electricity.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 02:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good. The heat source should be placed on top of jars. Heating from underneath causes them to dry out. Otherwise, it's a good Tek.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 03:08 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What if they're flipped?
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 03:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same deal... keep the heat on the top of the jars, whether they are inverted or upright.

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whoever (Livedangerous)
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 01:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what is the best amount of light and at what room temperature should one expose the jars to? change either after the primordia start to form? what kind of light? position light above or beside jars?
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 02:09 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

85 degrees and you can start introducing light at about 75 or 80% colonization.(unless you plan on fruiting in-vitro in which case exposure to light during the entire process is recomended.

The light will help to trigger fruiting(primordia).

85 degrees is good for the whole process.

If you invert your jars they should get enough light from the top or the side... whichever you prefer.

Light cycles can be anywhere from 1 to 24 hours a day.
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Martaxus (Martaxus)
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:47 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would you believe I'm using a string of christmas lights? One string of 50 can light & heat nicely and allows for a little more stealth. After expermienting with the right # of bulbs inside the unit for temperature, tape the extra lights with electrical tape. You can even use high-temp tolerant elictrical tape (same as for during sterilizing) if you're worried about the heat of the bulbs.

For invitro, line the insides of the box with tinfoil reflected inwards. A thermometer along the side of the box, and it's the perfect incubator. Mwa Ha Haaa!
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 03:50 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

get a chicken egg incubator for the jars. They should be incubated @85F. Lower temps are fine for fruiting, down to 60F won't hurt them at all. Slows em down a bit, not much
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Cosmic Charlie (Cosmiccharlie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:06 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, so a friend of mine's been incubating his jars (PF basic tek) for 34 days, and no pinning. He suspects that one problem is varying temperature. But besides that, what should he do? Is there a certain point where you should birth the cakes whether or not there is pinning? Or should he just keep waiting? Thanks
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plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:35 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what race is your friend working with... i know there are a few that don't pin invitro at all and even so... you might still need more time.. if your temps are low
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Cosmic Charlie (Cosmiccharlie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:42 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's growing standard PF
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:52 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, it certainly should have pinned by now.
how long have you been exposing them to light ?
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relic (Relic)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:57 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the only reason these wouldn't have pinned would be what hip and plink refered to, either low temps, or no light, or both. low temps can certainly slow things down dramatically.

how long have they been 100% colonized?

you certainly can birth them. but if it's your first try you may as well wait until you at least see the first primordial bumps forming.

keep them in the light
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Cosmic Charlie (Cosmiccharlie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 05:45 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They've been receiving light for one week now. They've also been almost 100% colonized for a week. Although there arent any pins, you can see lumps of "mushroom-like-tissue." The temperature is a big problems. Its in the 70's in the day time, but it gets down to low 50's at night. thanks for the help!
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 05:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you'll prolly need at least another week exposed to light before you see pinning.
maybe even longer, due to the low temps.
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Rick (Npno)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 05:46 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering if it affects the mycilia if the temperature rises to 86 F but also decreases to 68 F

I was also thinking would this result in a longer collonization period? If so, approximatly how long?
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An guy (Boomer)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 07:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep reading dem archives, they're like, everything you ever wanted to know about mycofarming, but were afraid to ask.

Also, lower down on this forum page, there's a thread called 'Reasons for spores not to germinate' or something like that- good info in that thread- tons and tons of threads around...

Pretend you're in a cool music store, and it's all free.....just wander around and take what you need...
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 08:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some form of Incubation prevents Stalled Jars

Thanks for the comp Booms
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:45 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm using a submersable aquarium heater, and on the stand that my jars are on above the water, its 88F, a few inches up at the top of the jars its like 82F.
Until i find a sterofoam container I have to use this rubbermaid one, which heats unevenly.
But is 88F too hot? I've heard to aim for 86F.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be best if you could knock off a degree or two. Throw a blanket over the storage container to help it heat evenly.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:57 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

since it's a little cooler right above them, I'd suggest raising your jars an inch or two
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 05:57 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The higher you go, the cooler it is....
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John Brent (Singingcherries)
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Hey, i was just wondering if an electric blanket turned on low wrapped around inoculated jars would be more beneficial then having no incubation at all? could someone help me out here and give me some advice?
thanks
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Snoopy (Snoopy)
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:10 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you can keep the incubation temp around 85F than you are good to go. I however usually end up with a constant 75-78F and it takes 20-22days for 100% colonization + 4-5 days for the insize to colonize.
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:18 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sure, a blanket is better than nothing.
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 05:46 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing I have noticed is not mentioned around here. This is that mycelia, while colonizing, produce a detectable level of heat. If you can get the spores to germinate, just insulate the heck out of your small colonizing chamber and leave a thermometer sticking out of it. The heat produced by the growing hyphae will be sufficient as long as it does not radiate out of the area of the jars too quickly. Use a small, thick-styrofoam container (like the kind that holds one six pack), pack the jars in tight (use two containers if you have to), poke a long thermometer through the/each lid, and wrap all this in a mylar-faced car windshield cover (the kind used for blocking out the sun while parked) leaving the therm sticking out. Cut a small hole in the sun guard if you need to. You can even pre-heat the loaded styrofoam containers to about 95 F (everything will lose some heat during the process), then wrap. Put this whole setup in a box in an area with no air movement for about three weeks or a little less, and don't touch it. The thermometer will tell you the temp, which is all you need to know. Pretty complicated, but it keeps you from having to worry about overheating and it's very discreet.

-ion
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 06:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you, fast growing jars and fruiting cakes are exothermic; they consuming substrate and do generate detectable heat. It's surprising how much actually when they are really cranking. Indeed closing or wrapping them up in something clean and placing them in a draft free location does help speed things up.
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Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 08:10 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a quiestion
I dident know where to post it so here we go,

can you have incubating jars so hot that they stall????? because mine arent growing much at all..
and my tape has been off
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Fake McCoy (Fakemccoy)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 08:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, my very first jar got dehydrated and stalled.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 09:33 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah any warmer than 88-90*F and your gonna have problems somewhere...
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 09:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ideal temperature for incubating is 86* F

kai
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 03:28 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this time of year, humidity is very low, and can easily dry jars prematurely, esp. when they are exposed to higher temps.
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john (Toomushtrippin)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:50 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the fanaticus book im using said to expect germination between 3/5 days...well its been 6 and im still not seeing anything. I made/inoculated the cakes with my friends and their jars look well on their way(for a few days now). Is it out of the ordinary for germination to take 7/8 days?? i suppose my house might be slightly cooler than theirs. the only other difference is that i exposed mine to inderect light for a total of around 24 hours and they didn't at all. somebody please tell me im just getting paranoid/impatient and give me some re-assurance!!
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boomer (Cmos)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 12:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm, I inoculated my jars 3 1/2 days ago, and already have nickel size mycelium in all 12 of my jars. I have all my jars in the box they came in, and sat them on top of my computer case for a little extra warmth.
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Cbee (Cbee)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 01:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wait about 10-12 days, then if no growth... prolly better off tryin again, ive had some jars go 10-12 days then boom out pokes some spots of mycelium!
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Jim (Jim)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 01:39 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes a lower temp will really delay germination, raise the temp and watch them take off
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TooMushTrippin (Toomushtrippin)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 03:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

about heating, is an electric blanket ok? my friend told me something about exo/endo thermic heat and it being bad for the substrate. is this true? if so how else could i heat them? is there something i could buy, becuase i can't turn the heat up in my house. thanks for any help
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2001 - 03:21 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it's certainly better than nothing.
ignore your friend.
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William Hicks (Loki)
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 06:29 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is a humid incubation chamber a bad thing? I have an open topped 2L bottle that has filled my cooler with humidity. Do I need something almost air tight, or is humidity okay?
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Patrick (Valence)
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 06:41 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If no standing water is on top of the jars (if that is what you are using) Then it is fine. Might be benificial. But you don't want to soak your substate as it will impede growth or kill it.
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 05:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a little humidity is a good thing in the winter when the air is very dry.
prevents your jars from drying out while they incubate.
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Organism (Organism)
Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 12:52 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have reasons to believe that my mycelium is only colonizing around the surface of where the substrate meets the glass. Even though it's almost all the way around, how can I know its penetrated/grown into the center regions of the substrate/cake?
Thanx for help.
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Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps)
Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 01:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wait a week, after it looks like it's 100% colinized.. because usally it wont start fruiting anyway till the middle gets colinized