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Mycotopia Web Archive Archive BRF TEK : BRF Cakes. How long does it take to get fruit? Pinning??? Previous Next

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Topic Author Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Pinning Casings - 1
Light - 1
Temps - 1
What's a pin? What is pinning?property of Friedricnuecrew3 1 12-02-01  07:23 pm
Birth before pinningawalter44Hatcher6 1 02-05-02  04:18 am

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wycrobro (Newman)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 05:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Im just wondering if anybody has any pics of the very first stages of pinning(I cant tell if its pinning or just mycelium growing upward)



Also i have been keeping my temp around 71-75 but when i woke up this morning the temp had droped to 62 ahahah, they have been in fruiting one for 5 days and one for 2 am i done for ??

any info or pics would be sweet
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 06:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm assuming you're talking about cakes. The temp drop will not hurt much, certainly not enough to cause serious harm. Pinning is very easy to identify...when it occurs you will know. Pins look like tiny round dots or knots, and very soon begin to look precisely like micro-shrooms. You can't miss it. Just be patient...time tells all. I'd say you're ok
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Liberty_Caps (Liberty_Caps)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 07:21 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how the hell do u get flat cakes to pin????
I usally have no problem with pinning at all,,
but my flat cake has been the terrium for a week and a few days now... I't has the good fuzz on it but no pins..
maby it's because only, my flat cake is in the terrium.. all my other cakes flushed out (DEAD)
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 07:30 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you just have to wait...as long as contams don't crop up, your flatcake is fine. Just be patient
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 08:12 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any Tek that involves dismembering a cake into pieces and casing is going to take a full 7-10 days longer than PF Tek because the mycelia has to re-knit. Patience is key.
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greenthumb (Greenthumb)
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2001 - 08:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Newman
Does this pic help?
I hope so.
check this out too

SO COOL

Is it not?

Piece

[See: Patrick's Sliced Flat Cake, Double-End Casing Tek]
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wycrobro (Newman)
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 03:12 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey there, Im actualy not using cakes, I took 4 full pint jars of rye grain (100% colonized) and put an 3/4 of an inch of 50/50 on the bottom of my rubbermade cont. Then crumbled the 4 cakes, then put another 3/4 inch of 50/50 on top.

I can see little white pin looking things, but this is my first attempt and i dont know.
they are about 4 mm high and only about 1mm thick
but I first spotted them 2 days ago and they have only gotten 1mm taller.

thanx for the info and pics
any more help or ideas would be sweet
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 04:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a flush coming on
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Hippie (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 01:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yup.
you're about to become a daddy.
pinset
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Scotsman (Barrowland)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:00 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2 start with i was sure then my friends here told me , when the cakes put in the terarium the bottom of the jar side should face the top of the terrarium.ReadingSimple Cubensis grow tek it tells u..loosen lid turn jar upsidedown slide jar free from cake then pick up cake and turn it over so its facing right side up it tells u..its important that the cake must be fruited sitting the same way as it was during incubating or the shrooms will grow from the bottom and this is wrong.This contradicts what i was told here but i know some teks are outdated and me being a beginner and my cake just about ready i want to be completly sure.SO THE SIDE WITH THE DRY VERM FACES THE BOTTOM OF TERRARIUM AND THE WHITE SIDE FACES THE TOP...
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:06 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it just doesn't matter which way,
you can even lay them on their sides.
the shrooms will use gravity to orient themselves, and grow towards the light.
but yes, i normally put 'em white side up,
so i can then pile on a little damp vermiculite.
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Sillycybin (Sillycybin)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scotsman, doesn't matter which side faces up. You can flip them in between flushes if you like but initially, it doesn't much matter. The position the mycelium grew in won't really affect the direction the pins grow. Light does that.

I think it only matters if you have let the cake pin invitro. You wouldn't want to set your cake down on the side that has pins sprouting up :)
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Scotsman (Barrowland)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:19 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i had to quqadruple check to be on the safe side.......but thats it i will sleep 2nite.........thanx all
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nuecrew (Nue)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:21 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why haven't the Space Shuttle guys tried growing some shrooms in outer space? Would they grow straight out in the absence of light? Be a cool looking cake.
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Scotsman (Barrowland)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what does adding verm to the top do
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

two things.
it helps regulate moisture, both by slowing evaporation and by gently adding moisture to the cake over time [the verm. is wetted]
it also helps trigger more pin formation, leading to more shrooms.
a pretty good idea, all in all.
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:42 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone ever have good results w/o using DE casing.. or verm?

Would having an automated terrarium with 100% RH and 24/7 air exchange eliminate need for verm or would it still be a good idea to have it?


kai.
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Scotsman (Barrowland)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:53 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thats noted hippie..i wil be trying that 2
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 06:56 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you'd still get better pinset, kai, with the added verm. there's just something about it that seems to help pins to form.
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:07 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still a good idea to case, Kai. Ambient humidity is to promote fruiting and keep the cakes from drying out when not cased fully. When the mycelium feels it is safe (humid enough to get all the way to sporulation without the risk of producing a shroom that dries out before spreading spores) it will fruit. Also, in nature the thallus of the mycelia is always covered in something which retains moisture and provides it directly to the needy mycelia by a sort of wicking action. Mycelium has no mechanisms to absorb water from air; only from surrounding and internal matrices of solids. Hope that helps.

-ion
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Kaijan (Kaijan)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:36 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes it did.. thanks.


kai
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jim brown (Shrhobbyist)
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hippie, it has always seemed to me that the added moisture of the verm is what causes pinning there. Just like when you set a cake directly on the perlite and that connection spot is where a lot of (super wet) shrooms pop up. That is just my guess, what other reason could there be beside that it is the area where there is the most moisture? That would make the two things you mentioned earlier one in the same. And when you get the shrooms that pop up on the edge of the verm, it (seems to me) that it is because that spot gets water, light and oxygen the best. But this is all theoretical.
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nick waters (Nickobod)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:30 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today I noticed about 8 pinners in a few of my jars. I'm going to wait a day or two more and transfer them to a "poorman's". However, I didn't know if the cakes needed to be placed on some kind of nutrient source before being inserted into the terrarium. I was just going to make a moist mixture of brown rice powder and vermiculite, but if there are better ways, I'd appreciate the info.

thanks
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Mindlesss (Mindlesss)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:51 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that would be a very bad idea, because the brown rice would only contam everything. The cakes dont realy need another nutreient source every thing they need is in the cake. You could use moist perlite in your poormans to keep humidity but dont put you cake directly on it use the jar lids or somthing like that.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 12:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the cakes have all the nutrients they need but they need moisture. Put them on lids filled with vermiculite and soaked with purified water, then pour a small fistful on top of the cakes and soak that down, too, then transfer into the fruiting chamber. This is called double-end casing, and is all your cakes will need for the first flush.
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Herman Manderchuck (Youenjoymyself)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 01:24 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Brown rice would be suicide!!!!!!Please don't do that....If anything use the casing tek Lichen talked about...
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ggg (Ggg)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 01:33 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cake info
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Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 09:22 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, is a jar 100% colonized when the mycelium is all around the BRF area or also the vermiculite area at the top and bottom (double-ended tek)?

Secondly, when should a jar be exposed to light for the standard PF tek? I know with Invitro, it should have light from the point of innoculation, but what about standard PF since I have read you should wait for pins before birthing?

Thirdly, when should light be exposed to the jars for the Flatcake tek? It seems like they should not be exposed to light at all since you are supposed to wait 2 weeks after 100% colonization before crumbling them and pins are bad at that point, right?

Thanks!
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Snoopy (Snoopy)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 09:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well after the jar has reached 100% on the outside you should still give it 4-5 days to let the mycelium reach the center of the cake, and than birth.
Second: What I have done in the past is as soon as I see the mycelium has covered the entire cake, then I expose it to the light. This will allow it to be exposed for the 4-5 days while the inside is colonizing.
Third: Once you are sure the inside is colonized you can crumble and case via flatcake method. You don't need to expose to light if you are going to cumble and case, because you won't need the pins anyhow.
Happy shroomin'!!
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Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 10:03 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its a prefrence thing, you can give your jars light from day. i give them light once they are almost fully colonized on the outside, so the time i get pins the center is colonized and its time to birth. you dont need to give them light if your going to break the cakes up. Its darn close to being fully colonized if its not, give it a few more days and play it safe.
Have a good one
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you need to give them a lot of light? I'm doing the whole stealth thing here, and they're hiding in my incubator under my desk. My parents would never come into my room and start opening things up, but if it was sitting there w/o a lid, or I had jars full of white stuff all over they might get a little concearned
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Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn)
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:56 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

brad are you wondering about pinning or when you birth it? 30-1 hr is enough to trigger pinning and about a hour when fruiting.
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Mr. Tambourine Man (Tambourine_Man)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:29 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it hard to keep the jars from pinning for the Flatcake tek for 2 weeks after 100% colonization? Will pins ruin it (rotting)?
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Snoopy (Snoopy)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:35 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not really hard, just don't expose it to light. If you expose it to light it will trigger the reaction of growing pins. One way or another tho they will form. I suppose a few pins here and there wouldn't hurt but if you had serious shroom action going and you crumbled and cased, there may be a slight issue with rot, but not much. Rot isn't good... so better to just play it safe ... crumble n case before pins appear
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kilborn - no, I mean when waiting for invitro pins. And after pinning 5 min a day of light is more than ample FYI
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Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

heard you can get away with 15 min FYI. wouldnt suggest doing anything less.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've heard of an experiement where the mushrooms were inoculated, and colonized in absolute darkness. A one millisecond strobe was enough to initiate growth.
All it uses it for is direction
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Cragith Kilbonith (Kilborn)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no comment brad.

mr.tambourine man best of luck to you.
K+
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ggg (Ggg)
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 07:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tambo-

Flatcake tek directions, step #4-- "Remove any........."
You can clean your cakes, then case or flatcake or whatever.
Have fun, good luck and stay SUPER STERILE!!

Shroom Glossary
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I feel so weird (Phishgrower)
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 07:05 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all, I have a flat cake and 3 pf cakes in my terranium. They've been in there for a week now. They look great and the humidity is high enough--the walls are covered in condensation. I dunked at birth, I fan 3-5 times a day and I give them ample light. The strain is b+. Anyone have any idea what might be taking so long? Am I just being impatient? I've looked in the archive and everything I've found I've either done or doesn't apply to me. I also have a casing in a different terranium that has only poked through in a few areas and has been like that for 4-5 days with no increase. Time is running down as I will have to leave my house in a couple weeks. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 12:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

b+ can be stubborn at times.
reduce fanning to once daily, that should help elevate co2 levels to trigger pinning.
then just be patient...
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:21 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To MR pin invitro? When I hit 100% (any day now) should I immediately birth, or wait?
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:39 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wait for pinning, start giving light asap.
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jared (Jared112)
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 02:55 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I finally got some pins on about 4 of my jars. I think the others may just be a day behind or so. However I don't know if I should be calling them pins, because they don't have the distinguished brown colored veil. They are just more like blobs that are the same color as the stipe of the fruit.
pins

Would you say that now would be a good time to birth the cakes, or wait for more pins. I don't really see why waiting for more pins on PFCs is important, because they don't have distinguished flushes. Maybe somebody could throw me some advice here.
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 04:01 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yup, them's pins.
you can birth now since you're so impatient.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I dunked my first jar today. Its now sitting in water, but now this question comes to mind: Should I have waited for pins? I know that you're supposed to wait for pins before birthing, but after dunking I can still keep it in the jar for pins. There is a lot of mycillial knotting, which I assume are the the start of pins. A few of my other jars have pins, but are a few days away from 100%.
Right now its on a sheld, with lots light, and lots of water. The reason why I dunked is because I thought the coldness of the water and the rehydration would help get me some mushrooms flowing. Was a I wrong to think this?
I know I'm being paranoid, but its my first time, what more can you expect :P
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jared (Jared112)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:06 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good to me. Here is a pic of one of my jars that was notting. before the knots got that dark they looked like white cotton balls.
knotting
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:07 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, your pic didnt work.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:09 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't have to wait for pins. You can birth and dunk at 100% without a problem. I do it all the time.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:12 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh wait, now it does :P
That was odd... it was just a box with an X before I posted this. Meh
By the way though, arent those pins? I was told that the knotting was fluffs that were like a circle with a bumb, and the pins were yellowy
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:13 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks nan.... They say to wait for pins means a higher flush... are you saying this isnt true?
I never did understand why anyways.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 11:39 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thinks it helps with the PF Classics and Albinos.

Hawaiians... Don't bother waiting, birth them at 100% colonized and you will get fruit a week or more earlier than otherwise... Some jars never pin invitro so you could wait a really really long time...

It's strain specific... I grow strains that fruit early and don't require invitro pinning.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its Matias Romeros... They do pin invitro though, as I already have some on certain cakes
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i've never found a strain that didn't pin invitro when exposed to light from day 1.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:25 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So dont bother pinning invitro then?
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:33 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

we discused this once before with pf, and some others, and the general consensus was that you should give a fully colonized cake no more than 2 weeks to pin invitro, if it hasn't pinned by then, go ahead birth and case.
but if you expose them to light from the beginning, you will almost always have some pinning before then.
there are two good reasons to bother with waiting for invitro pinning.
1] the jar traps some co2, which is needed to help trigger pinning. often newbies who birth immediately find themselves waiting weeks before pins come, because they're fanning their tanks, which keeps co2 low, which slows pinning.
2] the jar traps moisture, keeping the cake hydrated while you wait. in a terrarium, the cakes will begin to dry, and if weeks go by, then the flush will be weak.

in your case, since you have pins on some of the same batch of jars, the others should not be far behind.
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Brad (Raze)
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 02:14 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, great. THANKS!


I can feel the excitement building inside me.... mwuahaha