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PF Double-End Casing - 1
Flat Cakes - 1

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Snoopy (Snoopy)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 12:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What seems to be the pros and cons of these two types of fruiting style. I am just wondering if I should bust up a few cakes and make them into flat cakes much like EATYOUALIVE did with his .... well..... large pics * thanx eatyoualive *
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 12:57 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mass of a cake is so thick, the middle of the cake will never have the chance to produce shrooms. Breaking it up, exposing more surface area, results in a fair chance for the mycelium to pin up and make shrooms. Flat cake tek spreads the mycelium out. You can take one cake and double or triple the yields realized from the mycelium in cake form.
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Snoopy (Snoopy)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 01:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so ..... what you are saying is that its worth it to break up some PF jar style cakes, take like 2-3 cakes and bust them up and put them in a dish like eatyoualive did?
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 01:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

give it a try...you'll like it :0)
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Eatyualive (Eatyualive)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 02:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

couldn't have said it better myself lichen.
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Bobby (Bobby)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 02:55 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you use the flat cake TEK when do you dunk? Before you break them up or what?
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jim brown (Shrhobbyist)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 06:32 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Eastyou's tek, the cakes are crumbled into pea sized pieces and spread into a cake. On the other hand, the 9er tek simply puts the cakes next to each other and cases. From what I undersatnd, breaking up the cakes as per eatyou's tek, will generate more fruit. Is this true? Also, how is the 9er tek any better than cased cakes?
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Black Star (Mr_Bug)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 07:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I suppose you need to use the flat cake tek after birthing/dunking your jars and before 2ECasing them? I guess that if you 2ECase and get three good flushes, your cakes won't have enough food to fruit much more. However, theoretically, you could break up the cakes and add more food to the mycellium in order to get more shroomies. Let's hear some thoughts on this. I know that you can mix Timothy Hay/Straw, but what about manure or good ole BRF? Now that I'm putting it out there, what is the best possible food for these babies?
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:03 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Compost, Manure, and Straw are proven Teks with older cakes. BRF contams too easily.

Ask what is the "best" food and you will get 50 dif answers. BR is the king of jars. Whole grain or Enriched Straw gets my vote for Cased Beds (cheap, easy, fast).
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plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you are making a flatcake from PF cakes that have been through about three flushes (can you do that?)... should you just crumble them and case with damp verm or dunk them first... they are pretty dry... also do i need to be really sterile considering they are old and established? can i use a metal cake pan?
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you use metal you will get oxidization on your cake...which may stunt the growth or something, but you can always put saran wrap in the pan first. Or foil.

I personally can't recommend using post-third flush cakes for this unless you also introduce fresh nutrients, which can be risky. You might try pasteurized dung or worm castings..
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Eatyualive (Eatyualive)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 09:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dunk - Dunk after the first flush for 6 hours. don't dunk before you make the flat cake.
more fruit- from my experience cakewise. the Flatcake generates more fruit. but you have to understand nature. sometimes it goes good and sometimes bad. if you ever have a problem with a flat cake not fruiting. then dunk. i have found that if i have a poor first flush say 1/2oz dry then i have an incredible second and third flush. so really it all depends on factors, temps, and growing conditions. personally the dual chambered terrarium worked for years but now i am off to better and bigger ideas. i like this entrainment idea that the mushrooms actually grow in closer resemblence to natural cubies. the fruits are heartier and from reports the potency is stronger(this is debatable in the mouth of the beholder.)

i don't have personal experience with 9er Tek but it seems the only difference between that and hawks tek is the use of brown rice* instead of Bird Seed. seems to work well though.

p.s. did i mention that i love coco fiber and suggest it to everyone.
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Martaxus (Martaxus)
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 02:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eatualive, is there anything a cake dunker should know about dunking a flat bed? I would imagine you'd shake off all loose verm., lay it in a bigger tupperware comtainer of water, then pat it dry & place back on fresh verm.

Is this correct?
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Eatyualive (Eatyualive)
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 04:36 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Martaxus, this is right. i usually use a 1/2pint jar full of water to hold the cake underwater. i usually dunk about 2-4 at a time so it works well. i use 8"x12" trays for casings and i also use these between dunks. i am experimenting with dunkin in the fridge. hopefully all will go well and i will post results soon.
Plinkerdink,
you can try it. it never hurts to try but i would say to create the flat cake and add some overly wet verm to the top. once the cake colonizes then dunk the whole cake. pat down and then double end it and see what happens. i wouldn't suggest dunking then creating a flat cake. this seems like too much moisture and will harbor contams.
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Hongus (Hongus)
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 05:33 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how thick is the flat cake?
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Eatyualive (Eatyualive)
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

add water and then just throw it on to instead of verm.

also, the flat cake is as thick as you make it. mine are usually half an inch
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Martaxus (Martaxus)
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 08:05 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After dunking a bed & putting it back on fresh verm, does the bed have to grow through the top verm layer again, or is it different after a flush?
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 08:16 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No it takes a week to recover and it will grow back up through the verm again.
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serrus (Serrus)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 02:58 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much vermiculite is placed on top of a flat cake? I've seen this question ask and never answered.

3 pf 1/2 pint cakes in an 8x12 pan (about 1/2 inch thick)
wet vermiculite on top - how much? Just enough to cover the cake crumble? 1/4 inch?

Thanks in advance.
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Eatyualive (Eatyualive)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 12:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the top layer doesn't matter bc you are removing it later. all it does is add moisture and create a buffer layer. you can put 1/2-1" if you want then press down firmly to make cake more compact.

Shroom Glossary