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Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:35 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys, thanks for all the help on here. I know I haven't asked a lot of questions but I lurk around a lot and read other's questions, which helps just as much. Anyway, if you all remember, I'm thinking about trying to grow a small batch of shrooms in a dorm. I think I've got the jist of everything and have been planning out exactly what I need to do to get this all started. Anyway, my question is, just how important is temperature? To be honest, I'm not sure what the temperature is in my dorm room at any given time, or on average. Compounding that is the fact that I can't control the heating system there, it is all done by the building administration. (the building coordinator has been turning it on at night and off in the afternoons, the heater is either on or off, no in between)... If I had to guess, the temp is usually in the upper 60's to mid 70's. Depending on what time of day and if the heating system is on or off.

I've heard of people using aquarium heaters and heating pads and stuff, but it seems like they would be very hard to control when you can't keep the ambiant room temperature stable. Not to mention PF tek warns against using any heating.

If I remember correctly, the optimal temperature for colonization is about 85, while fruiting is about 75... But my real question is, if you're in an environment where the temp isn't exactly that but something slightly cooler.. say about 65-70... is that going to totally ruin anything, or are we talking more on the order of slowed growth. Slowed growth wouldn't be too bad a thing, as long as we're not talking about a difference of weeks or something.

Also consider that this is my first time growing. I'm just looking for some results, nothing fancy right now. They don't have to be the biggest flushes or anything like that. I just want to know if growing in a 65 - 70 degree environment (perhaps sometimes even a little cooler, i haven't taken any exact measurements) would be totally detrimental, or nothing to really worry about. Thanks for all your help.

Delekhan
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fungis amongus (Fungisamongus)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

temperature doesn't really matter, i've had cakes colonize and grow at 60 degrees, they just grow a little slower. I wouldn't worry about using any form of supplimental heat. if you inoculate it, they will grow. Then the other thing is: do you really want to do this in a dorm?! I'm sure you have friends with houses off campus, try that first. But if you must, just be really careful. RA's will come in your room at some point! Especially when you're not there like during breaks (christmas, thanksgiving, ect.) and I don't know about your school, but you probably signed a piece of paper saying that the dorms aren't your property, they're the property of the school,and the school has a right to search your room... just be careful
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jared (Jared112)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:50 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all you have to do is build an incubator with stuff that you find in a hardware store. Then set it to 85 degrees. I had some jars sitting at 70 degrees for a week and they did not even germinate, I put them in the incubator for 12 hours and they germinated, its been 6 days now and they are over 50% colonized, just build yourself an incubator or buy one then after you birth the jars your dorm temp should be fine. If you are worried about people catching you then you should build a big box and put a lock on the outside of it so that only you can get inside, this way you will have a place to put your terranium and your incubator and not have anybody busting you.
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jared (Jared112)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:52 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that if you feel like waiting a few months for jars to colonize you can do that, but if you want to have shrooms fast then go with an incubator.
incubator
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plinkerdink420 (Plinkerdink420)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:54 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i've heard people say that the lower the temperature, the slower the shroom grows... and somehow makes them more potent... i don't know if there is any validity to this or not.... but i have not used a heater yet and my temps are right around in there somewhere... i don't think it will matter all that much.. you should consider getting a thermometer though so that at least you will know what the temp is so that later on if you feel like experimenting with heat, then you will know what your starting point is i wish you all the luck in the world
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Nugdumper (Nugdumper)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 09:57 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let nobody in your room... and don't smoke dope in there(police)... or cigs for that matter(sterility). It is risky, but if you can keep from telling anyone, you should be able to pull it off.
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jared (Jared112)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 10:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm telling you dude build the box, just a huge trunk that you can put a few locks on the outside then no nosy fuckers will be in your shit.
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Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 11:26 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm getting some conflicting information guys... Maybe I should go ahead and get a baseline temperature reading for my room... the real problem with the heating thing is that the ambiant room temperature fluctuates. Maybe that would help in reproducing a more natural environment... I don't know. I guess I should just give it a try and if I have trouble that's one thing I should consider..

Thanks for the privacy concern guys. I'm not too worried about the security issue (not to mean i haven't thought about, i've just thought about it too much really). I have a private room, and I know when to expect RA's or company. There is a ton of closet space in my room. Putting the terrarium on a high shelf in a tupperware container isn't going to raise any suspicion. Big tupperware containers are quite a common find in a college dorm closet, and the height obscures any viewing of what's inside. As for breaks and stuff, that's why I'm working on getting my shit together now.. and waiting till after xmas break to actually start. I could use a friends house, but would rather not put myself/them in that position. Not to mention it would be hard to maintain if I have to drive there to spray it or something. I know the RA on my floor, he's not very nosy... they are usually more concerned with getting their weekly room-checks (which consist of opening the door, walking just inside the doorway, and signing a piece of paper on the door) done, than really scrutinizing anything. They aren't allowed to search anything without the police or your consent. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't, but I'm pretty maticulous about keeping the room clean and inconspicous. I'm also pretty discrete, no one knows anything about it except me and my girlfriend, and I'm not planning on selling anything out of my dorm.

A locked up trunk in a private room may just help raise suspicion, but I appreciate the idea. Any other ideas on dorm security and appreciated, but seriously, I go to a pretty laid back school. Last year all I had to do was go down a floor to my friend's room to buy as much pot as I wanted, and smoke out as much as I wanted. I bought a vial of acid last year at the building I'm staying at now. My girlfriend found a joint just laying in front of her building once... At one point I had delivery service of nearly any controlled substance I wanted. Beer cans and such are always in the outdoor garbage cans and in the street, even though the campus is dry... you know... it's cool. It's not a dirty campus.. it's just laid back. Go egumacation.

Delekhan
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 11:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry for the conflicting info...

You can expect colonization of pf jars within four weeks even if the temps are below 70F. And it doesn't hurt them to have the temps fluctuate wildly. Just so long as they don't get too cold or too hot, which means, at the extremes, a temperature range from 55F-95F is safe. No problem. They will fruit at any temp, too. But I must stress that your understanding is correct--85F for incubation and 75F for fruiting are the best temps. Also remember Hippie's invitro tek...very easy to conceal a small operation---unless the RA walks in while you're harvesting :0)
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:15 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the key part is germination.
the spores won't hatch at 60*.
you need about 5 or 6 days of 75-80*F to hatch the spores.
once they're hatched, colonization can and will procede at even lower temperatures.
but the longer colonization takes,
the liklier it is to contaminate or dry out, causing other problems.
a rough rule of thumb is if it's warm enough for you to feel comfortable in the nude,
it's warm enough for them, too.
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:26 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent summary. I didn't realise the spores will not germinate at 60F...my notes aren't all-inclusive, as I never made records of the temps, and so I don't know what they were beyond a general feel for what the temp ranges have been during the process. I do know that 55F doesn't hurt the jars, though, nor the fruits. Slows things, but doesn't stop them.
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Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:27 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Lichen

That's what I was thinking. I mean, in the wild, I've seen shrooms growing at a variety of temperatures. I think 'optimal conditions' are stressed a little too much sometimes, ya know. For a beginner, It can really get overwhelming when you start thinking you absolutely have to have an exact level of humidity, and temperature, performing proper maintance and air exchange. Along with concerns about contams and how to be extra extra sterile. A lot of people offer their expertice, which is good, but they rattle off optimal conditions as the way it has to be rather than just what will work. That's why I always mention that I'm a new grower and am just trying to get a few shrooms my first time. I don't want to construct a major set up and sit around and worry about the minutest detail when I really have nothing to worry about, and could have spent half the money on a simpler set up and still get the desired result. In a way (for those with some computer experience), it's like telling a new computer user to run linux because it's more powerful, but then the new user ends up with so much stuff he knows nothing about he fucks it all up. In any case, help is help, and I definately appreciate everyone's help. People just need to realize when they're dealing with a new grower, simpler is always better. If there's problems with the simple way in that persons situation, evaluate those and fix them as they arrise. Or if the person thinks improvements could be made, then work on that. Giving one's opinion of the absolute best way or 'optimal condition' from the very start can be overwhelming. Anyway, that's my 2 pence... And thanks guys, once again.

Delekhan
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Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:37 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn, lots of posts at once.. heh.

Thanks hippie. Even though simpler is always better, I was thinking of building that styofoam cooler incubator in the archives to help speed colonozation up when I can, and per your info on germination, after I first inoculate. I was just making sure I don't need constant 80* or anything. You see, that would be pretty hard to pull off if the set up is usually in the closet. Suspicion might be raised if I ran extension cords into the closet (they wouldn't be expecting shrooms, but maybe pot). For security's sake, my set up can't sit out in the open, that's just asking for trouble. But letting it sit for a few days after inoculation wouldn't be that risky if I did it after my room check, and stuck it out of the way. Thanks for the info man.

Delekhan
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:42 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, if you have so much information that you cannot absorb it all, it's hard to figure things out. I appreciate what you're saying, and it's my policy to help new, inexperienced growers to understand the basics first.
Let me ask you a question: Have you carefully reviewed the information at Fanaticus,com?
If not, I recommend it, because even though it's sort of like handing a cookbook to someone who doesn't know how to cook, and saying, "make enchiladas", it has all the basic info you need. For example, the only thing he even says about temps is that room temp is fine.
Stick with his basic info, and you'll do fine. Then if you have a problem, ask here and we'll help you out.
Good luck and many fruits
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:48 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there's no need to maintain a constant 80*.
that's nice, but not required.
pf tek is very resilient, you can get away with many short-cuts and still get decent results.
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Delekhan J. Delekhan (Delekhan)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 12:55 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea, I've read most of the PF stuff. And I agree. It gives you the basics, and a really good tek, and doesn't flood you with every possible case and optimal condition. Though in some parts it seems a little vague. I remember reading that room temperature should be fine. But I had to ask the question since I knew my room temperature got a little on the cool side sometimes (not exactly what i would have my room temperature set at, if i could control it). Sometimes, it's feels fine to be naked in my room. Sometimes it's bitch-ass cold (left the window open or something)... So it looks like an incubator during the first stage of colonization may be in order. Though I may give it a shot without one. In fact, under the sink in my room is probably warm. The whole building uses base-board steam heating from boilers, and under the sink, just behind the wall, there seems to run a fairly warm pipe (whenever I turn on the water, it's always quite warm for a minute, even if I turned on the cold tap.. have to waste a gallon of water just to get it cold) I should probably probe that spot with a thermometer and see what I get. I'd say it consistantly stays warmer than the rest of the room, especially the top of the closet. What do you think?

Delekhan
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greenthumb (Greenthumb)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 01:00 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool info for incubation

low key - high yield
try hips mycro-tek
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Lichen (Lichen)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 01:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think under the sink might be just the place, near that warm pipe. Do like you say, and put a thermometer there in a likely spot for the jars, and check it three times in one day to make sure.
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jim brown (Shrhobbyist)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:36 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nugdumper, you mentioned that cigarette smoke increases chances for contams. I've heard that before but I don't understand why that is. Can you, or anyone who knows, explain that to me? Does it weaken the mycellium?
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wycrobro (Newman)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:24 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I made a styrofoam incubater and it works great regardless of outside temp differences.
good luck and be carefull.
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nuecrew (Nue)
Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:02 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are living among other people you could set up the jars at a friends kitchen and bring the jars back for innoculation and "hatching". I did Hippies invitro tek once and if I wanted shrooms but had to be discreet that would be the winner.
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SYDYSTYK (Addict)
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 01:47 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my cakes have been freezing their balls(well i didnt ask if they were boys or girls)off, it slows things lot but im pretty sure my potency is up, and contams practically non-existant
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Ron (Clubbenguy)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 08:21 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Jim, the simple fact why cigarettes increase the level of contams is that the smoke fills the air leaving millions of bacteria in the air. More bacteria = high chances for contams.
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jim brown (Shrhobbyist)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 09:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that bacteria=contams but how does smoke leave bacteria in the air? Smoke is not a bacteria.
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 09:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No offense, Ron, but what you just said made no sense. Bacteria do not spontaneously generate from smoke. Thing is, smoke settles on things like a very fine dust. Spores and bacteria get trapped in the tarry fraction, glycerine, and water vapors in smoke and will then fall all over everything and stick to it. Smoke is also "thicker" than air, so it increases the probability of nasties adhering to surfaces (like you and your instruments) as you move through a cloud of it (just like moist air). With clean air, most contams just blow around turbulently and never stick unless static or low-tension moisture is present.

-ion
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nuecrew (Nue)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 10:31 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to smoke inside and it didn't seem to bother my shrooms. But they were upstairs where I didn't smoke. Two friends are dead from lung cancer, after that I quit, ugly way to go.
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 10:46 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It won't hurt them after they're all snug in their beds, unless they really get inundated (as in coated in tar and no real breatheable air). Just don't smoke during the steril proceedings.

-ion
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hippie3 (Hippie)
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 02:31 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tobacco has long been prohibited from pot growers' gardens because it can carry the tobacco mosaic virus, which can infect cannabis.
it's carried on your hands, though, not in the smoke.
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 06:23 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn, hip! That was good! I forgot all about mosaic!

-ion
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SYDYSTYK (Addict)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 06:53 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

like i posted above ive been growing in an outdoor building and boy has it been cold, as low 40's at night to upper 60's during day---well because winter came around i kinda lost momentum in what im doing-so they just sit-i didnt see them for a week i came back there were shrooms of all shape and size-short,tall,fat,thin, but overall i would have to say ive had a greater average of very large shrooms in this cold weather-no air exchange or misting-the shroomy smell was extraordinarily strong, i personally beleive that potency is increased by low temps(some of the most potent psilocybes are fruited in quite cold weather)however growth is for the most part excruciatingly slow(there were 2 rotted shrooms and a couple on the road to rot, but not many) bla bla bla my point is low temps will still work
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ion ewe (Ion)
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 08:02 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Low temps increasing potency lends weight to the argument that shrooms produce chems as a defense mechanism. The human body reacts to cold as an enemy in much the same way. But perhaps it's just because slower growth gives them more time... veeerry interestink...

-ion

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Organism (Organism)
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's been 6 days now and I see no ryzomorphic growth at all. I checked one of the jars for contamination odor and found none. I trust my sterilization process so far. 1/2pt.jars with 1/2cup verm. 1/4cup brn. rice pdr. 50ml distilled water *each* Do they require a certain amount of indirect sunlight? They are at avereage 70f. temp.
I don't think it should take this long should it?
they are PF classic innoculated down the side of the jars. Any thoughts? Thanx.
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Brettiejams (Brettiejams)
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:51 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You should bump the heat up to about 85 degrees, if you can.

No light needed.

70 is a bit low for germination.... and 6 days with no visible growth at that temp doesn't sound too unusuall to me.
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Nan (Nanook)
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 03:44 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not at all. Warm them to 80-86*F and I bet you see growth in 24 hours.