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picndim (Picndim)
Member
Username: Picndim

Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:51 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ya I'll say the positive flo glove box sux
\
I made one with rubber mades and great stuff spray foam. I ve only tried it twice and there is like ten times the contam.
next time I'm not goin to turn it on and just use the thing like a glove box.
I think that a air flow hood would be way better
better than a oldd fasioned glove box I dont know but that positive preasure just blows thecontams around inside
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Jesse James (Spacecowboy)
Senior Member
Username: Spacecowboy

Post Number: 342
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 12:10 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info
If it's not broken, then the government will try to fix it until it is.

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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 1185
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 02:46 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It will work much better with the fan off and still air. Positive pressure in a glove box will cause turbulence and stir up contamination that was previously settled and not a danger.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me, while I kiss the sky!" jimi hendrix
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Chu (Chu)
Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 03:02 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK guys, now youīve scared me...
Iīm going to build a positive pressure glove box in two weeks, and have all the parts already bought...

Iīm going to use a 120mm fan to pass air through a 5īX7ī HEPA filter (not sure yet if itīs going to push or pull the air through the filter). Just two holes, no gloves.

I didnīt realize something could go wrong. Actually, I was thinking that the positive pressure glove box was the best thing after flow hoods.

Help me out here... Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Peace

Chu
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 1187
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 04:49 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just build a sealed up glove box until you can afford a laminar flow hood. Positive pressure works in the electronics industry because they're only worried about dust. In mycology we have many more and smaller things that ruin our day. The turbulence in a positive pressure environment will stir those up. I've actually worked petri dishes in an open room after shutting down all fans, putting a shirt at the bottom of the door to stop airflow, and bleach bombing the whole room with a 10% bleach solution. I do this if I need to isolate mycelia away from contamination on a petri dish. You can't do that in front of a flow hood, or you'll blow the contams all over your good mycelia.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me, while I kiss the sky!" jimi hendrix
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Chu (Chu)
Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 05:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey rodger,

I see your point, the turbulence. However, I thought there would be no more contams to be stirred up once the box is bleached, and since the air entering the box is passing through a hepa filter no new contams would get in.

I really want to do a positive pressure glove box because I donīt like the idea of working with those uncomfortable gloves attached to the box. I donīt like the idea of having to put everything in the box before work either, and not be able to put anything else in the box once work started.

I based my project on the 9er Tek, Nanookīs GB and Hepa GB, all in the Archive. Now you guys got me confused... I donīt now what to do anymore...

P.S.: Rodger, please donīt think Iīm a stupid-new-guy going against your opinion. Iīm well aware of your experience and any help from you will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Peace

Chu
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spekters grace (Spekter)
Junior Member
Username: Spekter

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 05:51 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yup confused.....
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Chu (Chu)
Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 05:56 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot,

The problem with a laminar flow isnīt the price...

1-) Itīs way too big, I donīt have room for a laminar flow...

2-) The thing looks like a space ship, and I donīt want people to be curious or suspicious or amazed by my stuff...

3-) A blower is noisy like hell...

Those are the reasons why I want a more compact device, such as a glove box. and in the last post I exposed the reasons why I (technically) want a positive pressure GB.

P.S.: I believe the inflow of my GB will be no stronger than the flow in a laminar flow, but I could be wrong about that.

Peace

Chu
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8017
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 06:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i agree with rodger.
my experience has convinced me that no air flow is better than an unfiltered air flow like in a posi box with no HEPA.
to make air flow worthwhile it must be fully filtered and sterile.

http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/1/29852.gif
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spekters grace (Spekter)
Junior Member
Username: Spekter

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 06:38 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok so i should rip out my fan and filter setup on my box and seal it up? i already have the gloves n and such..basically all put together..but would using a lysol or bleach bomb before working in it help? or would the chemicals in the air be a no no?
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bonsai (Bonsai)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bonsai

Post Number: 75
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 06:48 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spekter,
Stay away from the lysol in a plastic bin glove box. It warps the bottom. 10% bleach would work fine. Something about the alcohol in the lysol and the plastic makes for a hump in the middle.

bonsai
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spekters grace (Spekter)
Junior Member
Username: Spekter

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 06:51 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well i actually did mine upside down so the lid is on the bottom...just seemed more practical to me, so i dont think i would have that problem with the bottom but i guess could also warp the walls thx tho
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 07:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey hippie,

I said Iīm going to use a HEPA filter in the inflow...

Spekter, I feel you have the same problem I have: lack of experience, hehehe. Fortunately, itīs a problem time will solve...

Peace

Chu
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rodger rabbit (Skyypilot)
Senior Member
Username: Skyypilot

Post Number: 1189
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 02:28 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with turbulence in a glove box is that it knocks contamination off your hands and arms. (and your tools and jars and everything else) You can wash your hands all you want with alcohol, and they'll still shed skin cells that will contam. If you don't believe it, clean your hands and fingers as clean as you can get them, then stick a thumbprint in a petri dish of agar. You'll have a thumbprint sized contamination spot within three days, guaranteed.
"I feel rowdy and I don't know why. . .Excuse me, while I kiss the sky!" jimi hendrix
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Senior Member
Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 699
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 03:07 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I, for one, have had very good luck with my pos. pressure glovebox. I use a hepa unit attatched to the side of a rubbermaid, with a dustmask covering the airflow inlet. Ive never had any major contamination problems. Spraying lysol in the box, and letting it sit for a while before turning the blower on will kill the vast majority of the contams in it. Also wear rubber gloves to maximize success.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Senior Member
Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 701
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 03:19 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One reason I like pos. press. better than sealed is beacause the sealed boxes do not allow lysol to dissipate. Ive had problems with lysol and bleach killing spores in sealed boxes.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 03:22 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Iīm gonna use latex gloves and spray everything with 70% etanol before taking into the GB.

Iīll give it a try and Iīll let you know. The problem is screwing up and wasting money if it doesnīt work.

Peace

Chu
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picndim (Picndim)
Intermediate Member
Username: Picndim

Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 04:58 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used a hepa filter with the one i built and the problem remains the same for me.
Im sure that the problem is that the walls of the box no mater how big holes for your hands are the air flow gets trapped inside unlike the flow hood where the air flow is free in all directions to be pushed away from the work table.
in Paul satmens diagram for converting a glove box the front is completely removed.
I think that the sidewalls of the box pose a threat of rebounding contams as well.
The only salutation is to remove the box all together leaving only the glass that separates your face and ceiling from the work surface.
and a good clean(hepa clean)air flow across the work surface
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Yogi (Yogi)
Senior Member
Username: Yogi

Post Number: 115
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:09 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I built a posi pressure box using a shopvac and a clean HEPA filter inside the vac, then connected the hose to a rubbermaid and cut 2 holes for hands and jars. I tried it once and every jar went green. Maybe the thing to do is run it for awhile and then shut it off when working in it. I don't know, all I know is that mine seemed to make things worse.
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Pskovinsky (Pskov)
Senior Member
Username: Pskov

Post Number: 109
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 07:16 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had good luck with my pos. pressure glovebox, but it did it differently then most people it seems, i basicly made a sealed one, and then cut a hole to hook my big round hepa air cleaner to (it's huge, didn't realize it was so big when i bid on it), via a trash bag that i taped around the top of the hepa, then cut a corner off and taped that to a hole in the rubbermaid, then i taped some rubber dishwashing gloves to holes cut in the side(like a sealed one) and made a veiwing port with some saran wrap (couldn't find plexiglass, and didn't feel like buying any). The lid on the rubbermaid leaks enough so that in conjunction with some holes built into the handles on the sides of the rubbermaid(or whatever it is K-mart sells) that it flows decently through, but still has good pressure. When i want to use it i hold the bag open and spray bleach into it from the glovebox, and then hose the glovebox with it and turn it on and let it run for 10-20 minutes to flush everything...

I can post pictures if anybody wants to see it.
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Jorneyer (Jorneyer)
Senior Member
Username: Jorneyer

Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:41 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey yogi- did you sterilize the inside of the hose from the shopvac?

pskov- i used the window from a dead microwave, and the inside of the door. Better than plastic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
-------------------------------------------------
gone, gone, gone beyond, completely exposed, so-be-it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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faht (Fahtphish)
Senior Member
Username: Fahtphish

Post Number: 537
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yogi, did you seal everything up so that the air wasn't coming in at all from anywhere but the HEPA? And going straight from the HEPA to the box without leaks? that was my problem.. my posi pressure box works fine.. i mist the air a few times REALLY good with alcohol after the bleach and before working.

fahtser
says: hello :-)
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stevie ray (Gldfsh)
Intermediate Member
Username: Gldfsh

Post Number: 80
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 05:23 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am with HF on this one. I have and use a posi-pressure GB and have had no contams related to GB work. I always wear latex gloves and pre-sterilize all tools before introducing them to the work area. For the cost and the space it saves over the flowhood, I think the posi-pressure GB is the best alternative. Not everyone has room for a flowhood or can seal off an entire room for mycological studies. Chu and Spekter don't let yourself be deterred from trying something. I have found that some people have more success than others at different teks, and that the people who may not do well with a certain tek have great success with other teks. My advice is to try the teks you think are good and decide what works for you. Don't not do something just because of something you read here. Find your own style that you like and work to improve that, perfect the tek and then move on to something new. Good luck with your GB, I hope all goes well. BTW what are the plans for the GB? What materials are you using?
Peace and happy shroomin,
-SR-
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 02:30 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I plan to use a clear rubbermaid box, the kind that has a good lid seal. Iīll push air through a vacuum cleaner HEPA filter with a 120X120mm computer fan. Iīll put a plexyglass window on the lid. 8W UV-C Germicide tube for decontamination before work and a 6W fluorescent tube, both inside the box. No gloves, just holes 5 inches wide.

This GB will be placed in a "clean-room" that is actually a clear plastic bubble, supported by a 2in PVC pipe frame. It is 1,80m wide; 1,20m deep and 1,80m high. I hope to incubate colonizing jars in a box inside the "clean-room". I also think Iīm going to fruit them in there in rubbermaid terrariums.

Well, I think thatīs it.

Peace

Chu
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picndim (Picndim)
Intermediate Member
Username: Picndim

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 09:17 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i used two rubbermade One is a short size and the opening is sealed to the back of the larger one this acts as a chamder where the air is force throught the hepa filter into the main camber the hepa is 6" x 11"
the air is forced in useing a "broom" vacum.
I took the dirt trap and nose off and the handle.
than droped the moter end into the primery chamber leaving the intake out of the top where the vacum filter acts as a primery filter and it is powerful. in effect it vacums air into the primery chamber throught the hepa into the main chamber.
but i do plan to convert this idea to a flow hood ill keep ya all posted with this medimorphious
with pics before and after the possy box i built looks cool and works great in theroy but when put to the test it works mediorker so next im gon' for the flow hood witch im sure will kick ass
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 60
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 01:55 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I surely agree with you picndim.
Sometimes the thing looks great and the theory is flawless, but the damn thing just doesnīt work.

On the other hand I believe each situation is unique, so it deserves a shot, at least for scienceīs sake.

Peace

Chu

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picndim (Picndim)
Intermediate Member
Username: Picndim

Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:13 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I addmite it at first i looked in the archive and read the pros &cons to the possy preasure box.
And had the same prospective that every situation is deferent. And so I gave it a shot and I didn't like this idea.
however.
I"LL Never stop thinking that every moment is unique from every prospective.
NEVER GIVE UP

I"LL Never stop thinking that every moment is unique from every prospective.
NEVER GIVE UP
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8221
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:40 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

much depends on how clean the surrounding area is.
in good clean areas, you can get away with much that would be ruinous for someone in worse circumstances. so look around the grow area and evaluate it, do you have carpet or pets ? is it near the kitchen or bathroom ? all these factor in, as they increase the contam load in the air nearby.
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Aaron Adler (Ragadinks)
New member
Username: Ragadinks

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 10:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had really very good results with my positive pressure box. Just make sure that only clean air comes in through a HEPA filter. I use a little air cleaning unit I found on eBay - they have a strong blower and a HEPA filter. Mist the box with chlorine with all the tools and dishes you will need inside 15 minutes before you are going to work. Then after 10 minutes switch on the blower of the HEPA filter, so that the chlorine goes out. Clean your arms/hands with alcohol when working in there. Wipe down the surface, petris, tools etc. with alcohol in between each major operation. Always put the cleaner things closer to the HEPA blower, so that no contams are blown from the more dirty to the cleaner stuff.
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 12:50 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey hippie, thatīs the next step: to make a bubble-like clan-room. No openings, no vents, just still, clean air in the bubble (I donīt know if thereīs a better name for that...), and even cleaner environment in the glove box. All with the help of a UV light in the GB and a big one in the bubble.

Ragadinks, good point on putting cleaner things closer to the hepa. But that implies your hepa is sealed, and no dirty air can get into the GB. I have no experience, but I think that lots of GBīs werenīt good cause they leaked dirty air. I plan to test my GB when ready by leaving 3-5 open petri dishes with medium, both containing and not-containg antibiotics, for different periods of time (like 15, 30, 60, 120 minutes) in there. If the GB is really good, none should contam.

Peace

Chu
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8400
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 12:56 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just be careful of those UV lights,
you're supposed to turn them off before you enter the area.
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Chu (Chu)
Intermediate Member
Username: Chu

Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 01:45 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course hippie, the lights should be off anytime someone is around. It causes severe eye damage, and suspected skin cancer.

The problem with UV is that...

uv1

uv2

The repair mechanism does not always work right, so if a pyrimidine photodimer is altering the right functioning of a cell-cycle or programed cell death linked gene, there may occur uncontrolled cell proliferation, aka. cancer.

Thatīs the deal with UV...

Peace

Chu
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8529
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 02:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool,
thx for taking the time to nail that down.
archive material.

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