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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 48
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 09:15 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

During the past few months I've been watching the boards and have learned a lot. You folks here at Mycotopia are great. Once again I am reaching out to you for your direction.

I'm trying to come up with a good arrangement for an incubator and a fruiting chamber for a friend as a surprise. I've taken pics and added them here as a reference for you to work with.
You'll note that the closet has two free outlets...Additionally he already has an indoor greenhouse from Northwoods. This greenhouse is equipped with an ultrasonic humidifier. (Mini version is now on sale at TARGET for only $20.00) I picked up 3 myself for future gift giving.
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The problem I'm trying to figure out is 1) air exchange in the greenhouse. The humidifier would seemingly make TONS of humidity with poor air exchange. 2) Using a large rubbermaid tub floating inside of another one kept at 83 degrees via a submersible fish tank heater, would this make enough humidity inside the internal rubbermaid tub for a mycobag?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated!
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Moose (Thidwick)
Advanced Member
Username: Thidwick

Post Number: 89
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 10:49 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A cheap HEPA unit mounted into the curtain, on a timer, would take care of air exchange, I would think. Set it for ON 6 to 12 times a day for a few minutes to swap the air.

As for the incubator, I use the nested tubs trick with some big rubbermaids, 150W down below, and with a thermostat like a Reptitemp, it is a set and forget setup. The nested tubs I think is as close to perfection as you can get with a cheap setup. The heat is very even, and if you put your incubator tub on the bottom of the greenhouse, below the fruiting chambers, the heat will rise nicely. In other words, you've got the tub at 86 at the bottom, and the rising heat will keep the upper portions in the high 70's at least.

You don't need to worry too much about humidity while incubating, as the bags and the jars maintain their own humidity quite well.

I wish I had a big closet to openly convert like that!
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 50
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 12:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like this?

He's going to have to get another rubbermaid to nest in. That one is too big....and annoying. Air exchange will have to be figured out tomorrow. As well as moving the rubbermaids into the greenhouse. CONSERVE SPACE....and get him a second GREENHOUSE as well!

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Moose (Thidwick)
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Username: Thidwick

Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 12:41 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like your setup. My nested tubs are both identical. In other words, in your bottom picture, I have two of your blue tubs stacked. I filled the lower tub with about 6" of water, added the heaters, and stacked them. There's just enough water to float the upper tub. Perhaps that way you could insert your incubator into the greenhouse.

I also have a lid on the upper tub to seal in the heat, without the lid, my setup would have a tough time doing 86 degrees.

Your style would be good in that it would add to the humidity, but you'll have some water loss from evaporation.

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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8185
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:04 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my advice would be to move the humidifier out of the chamber, hook it up with a funnel glued to some flexi hose and run the hose into the top of the chamber. set the humidifier up on a timer, and you'll be getting plenty of fresh humid air as needed.
see http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/44145.h tml
and
http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/29566.h tml
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8186
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:04 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

archive material
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:46 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right on......."in the archive" Doing the happy mushroom dance.

Wait till you see what I've got going on this afternoon Hip...Heading to Home Depot to get the tubing.
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 52
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 08:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay so here's the idea for todays project, to make an air exchanger a person could buy a bathroom fan from home depot for 27.00. It has everything even a housing. So if a person mounted that in a 14 gallon rubbermaid tub and covered this tub with a 12.00 16x25x1 Filtrete Ultra Allergen filter.....My thought would be to put the fan on a programmable timer so that it draws in air just prior to the humidifier turning on. The old CO2 and crap being blown out the bottom of the greenhouse. A possible consideration was to have the 14 gallon rubbermaid tub humdified by either putting a submersible fish tank heater in the tub along with water or having the ultrasonic humidifier turn on in conjunction with the fan. The idea for the fan being that it draws the air into the tub through the filter, that if the tub had a humid environment, I would be introducing this to the greenhouse. Am I off my rocker or could this be an option.
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 53
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 08:59 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unexpected development!
And I'm curious how beneficial or counterproductive this may be.
If a person used the ultrasonic humidifier on the shelf above the green house and piped the output down into the top of the greenhouse, would that be enough air exchange to move the CO2 out the bottom? My issue is with the lack of it being purified air. I see most people recommending a HEPA filter and I have dogs....is that going to be an issue? This would solve alot of issues with the air exchange much more cost effectively.

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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Senior Member
Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 729
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 09:35 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A hepa air exchange system is not needed for these IMO.

I have a dog and a cat, and I run my humidifier on the floor, pumping air into the top. It will also work fine above the greenhouse. The humidifier provides almost all the air exchange needed. I just fan them out 1 or 2 times a week.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 54
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 09:43 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

RIGHT ON!

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Moose (Thidwick)
Advanced Member
Username: Thidwick

Post Number: 95
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:11 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry I like your line of thought, I think we are alike in that half the fun is in the setup and looking for new ways to do stuff.

For a cake fruting chamber, I set up a 10 gal aquarium (one with a plastic hinged lid) with a good muffin fan, and a humidifier inlet. A coping saw made the cuts for both... square for the fan and round for the humidifier pipe. The muffin fan was epoxied in place, and a homemade polyfill filter maybe 2" thick is set up on the fan's inlet side.

Both fan and humidifier are on good timers. The fan turns on 12 times a day for 2 minutes. 3 minutes after the fan cuts, the humidifier comes on and fogs out the aquarium. It's a complete air exchange + moisture cycle, and requires zero effort once the cakes are in place. Which is good since I travel for my sales job!

Thanks for sharing your concepts.
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picndim (Picndim)
Intermediate Member
Username: Picndim

Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:20 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thats a perfect set up for all kinds of spawning and fruiting teks.
Great shoping trip for a holiday gift
I"LL Never stop thinking that every moment is unique from every prospective.
NEVER GIVE UP
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Blodwen Van Ulbelhour (Blodwen_1)
Senior Member
Username: Blodwen_1

Post Number: 201
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:38 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since everyone has jumped on you're grow chamber I'll add some insight on you're incubator. I started out almost identical to you're method, eventually it evolved to a sealed environment such as a igloo cooler, a large beer cooler, or refrigerator. I started to watch my electricity bill and how accurate my incubators and I switched to a sealed environment and produced far better results. I now use 2 large beer cooler (one for extra space and as a contam. incubator), typical pickle jar heater, a small flouro night-light, the larger coolers come with a drain which one can use for the cords. I get no temp fluxuations and the perfect results consistently, granted it's more expensive, but in the long run it's sped up incubation and cut down a tad on the bills.

For now wrap the outside rubbermaid with a blanket.
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 55
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:51 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the completed project "hypothetically speaking" as it stands right now. Time for my friend to sit back and monitor temps and humidity and so forth.
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And there is room to ADD-ON.

The bottom of the greenhouse is supposedly used as an incubator....double 14 gallon rubbermaid tubs with a 150 Watt submersible fish tank heater. (He does have to figure out a way to make the lower tub visible to monitor water level. He doesn't like leaving things like heaters unmonitored.) That sits in the bottom of the greenhouse which is additionally wrapped in a heavy duty garbage bag from Home Depot, hopefully to catch any condensation that develops. The upper two shelves are for the fruiting and are hopefully sustained at a 90% humidity by the feed of the ultrasonic humidifier above it on the shelf. He's hoping that the force of gravity will move the nasty CO2 out the bottom of the greenhouse. As you can see he's rigged the ultrasonic humidifier discharge to output just over a funnel. Do your thing gravity and make him proud. The light is on a timer 12 hours on and 12 off he said. The Humidifier is also on a timer that he didn't explain the on/off schedule to me.

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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 56
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:54 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about some photos Blodwen....I'm pretty good when working from photos and would love to see what your speaking about with coolers.

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Pskovinsky (Pskov)
Senior Member
Username: Pskov

Post Number: 145
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:03 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Love the flowing mist waterfall thing, thats cool.
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 8211
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:04 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

contrary to popular belief,
co2 rarely just sinks to the bottom of chambers and stays put, despite being heavier than oxygen.
heat generated by living organisms, your cultures, create thermal air currents which move and mix the air, not to mention the effects of various heaters and humdifiers. just let a little crack open near the bottom and don't worry after that unless you see symptoms of excess co2.
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 57
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:09 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and what would those symptoms be?

I informed him of the recommendation and here are the two options for venting the bottom.....whatcha think?Upload
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Hippie3 (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 8214
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:17 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

typical sign of excess co2 is very long thin stems with very small caps.
i doubt it's even possible in such a large set-up.
i'm not too thrilled, to be honest, with your current set-up. despite what many folks do, i have found that you don't want or need visible fog like that because the fog will condense on your casings and drown/saturate them.
instead, seal that funnel to the tube and use a much longer hose that has to run UP vertically at least a couple feet before entering the chamber. that way much of the vapor will condense and run back in the humidifier to be re-cycled.
then check your hygrometer and calibrate the settings on your timer to keep the humidity fluxuating circa 90-95% until near pinning then drop it to about 85% rh to finish fruiting.
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 58
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:40 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll notify him of improvements immediately chief.......
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 02:45 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, the guys in the R&D lab have come up with the following issues and solutions....Upon looking for tubing at HOME DEPOT nothing was found about the diameter of the output pipe...hence the concoction they came up with. However...they do agree with the idea of letter some of the condensation "GO AWAY".....how's this look?Upload
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Hippie3 (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 8236
Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 03:39 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

water might accumulate in that bend.
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Blodwen Van Ulbelhour (Blodwen_1)
Senior Member
Username: Blodwen_1

Post Number: 202
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 03:41 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's posting this pic does much good, it's the quality of the construction and heat containment that's important. It's a pickle jar heater, with a flourcent night-light, it has an insert tray, and Id say with eggcrate as separators it could hold a few hundred PF jars. I like having two 120 qt. incase of contamination.
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Highflyer (Highflyer)
Senior Member
Username: Highflyer

Post Number: 737
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 04:29 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get rid of that bend like hippie suggested and it should work well. The standing water in the bend will be a good place for contams to thrive.
"I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost
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faht (Fahtphish)
Senior Member
Username: Fahtphish

Post Number: 556
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:37 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if all you found at home depot was that dryer vent hose you either... A. have a super shitty home depot or B. didn't look hard enough. plumbing PVC, conduit, plastic tubing... these are all things that would be found there. and be way more usefull than that vent hose. archives link to grow rooms and ideas eh. :-)

fahtster

(Message edited by fahtphish on December 01, 2003)
says: hello :-)
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faht (Fahtphish)
Senior Member
Username: Fahtphish

Post Number: 557
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:40 pm:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and you probably don't need to keep those cakes with perlite bins in the greenhouses. I would just throw them in a clear plastic bag to seal them up and just air them out once or twice a day. maybe change/bleach the perlite once a week or so. :-)

fahtster
says: hello :-)
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Larry (Stuckntrfk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stuckntrfk

Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 05:35 am:Edit Post Quote Text Delete Post Print Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An update to this project, as HIPPIE predicted the flowing humidifier system just didn't work out. Far to much condensation in the rubbermaid tubs. BUT however these dogs told me about product by Honeywell....it is a cool mist humidifier with a blower on it. This achieves the desired CO2 exchange and the machine has a digital control that fires the unit up only when it's needed. NO TIMER required. The 4 gallon reservoir has gone for 3 days now without requiring a refill. The incubator was moved out of the greenhouse and continues to use the 2 x 14 gallon rubbermaid tub setup. They said that the fungis seems to really like these accomodations. Another aspect they have noticed is that by using two nesting tubs of the same size the water level doesn't drop as much as two different size tubs where the top tub floats freely. They asked me to post these photos.....and to say THANKS to everyone especially HIP for MYCOTOPIA.

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