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Why do you vote the way you vote? (seriously)


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#1 Coopdog

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 02:13 PM

MODS: If this goes to hell in a handbasket please freeze it but please leave it for me to read when I get home.

 

Had a very sudden falling out with my oldest and best friend who has been a mentor and teacher to me for the last 15 years. I respect this man more than I can say and love him like a brother. However since this election he has been so full of venom and hatred I can't listen to his hate speech anymore. He self-identifies as a "Fucking Elitist Liberal" (his own words) I have voted Republican since I found out what the party is supposed to stand for, not that it does anymore.

 

On the phone the other day we had a awesome conversation and I was so thankful to leave politics out of it, but just as I had to let him go to go in to work he started in with his "If these fucking racist ass ignorant Trump voters with their heads up their asses...and I said STOP man STOP right there. You know I am a Republican, why would you talk to me like that? I am no racist and I am definitely not stupid and I took that shit personally. As I said in another thread I did not want to vote for either of the people we were presented with. I voted for Trump in the primary bit threw my vote away on a 3rd party in the real election because I could not vote for either of these people in good conscience. The conversation ended with Well why the hell are you a Republican? I returned the question and said we are not going to iron this out right now because I have to go to work.

 

We are going to get together soon and actually try to have this discussion without poison and ignorant accusations. I would like to hopefully do  the same here as I consider you all to be the most intelligent community I know of online. Please, and without any name calling or accusations or hatred involved tell me why you vote the way you vote if you would be so kind.

 

I will be glad to start. I vote Republican for a couple of basic reasons. They are supposed to stand for smaller gov't, less taxes, and personal responsibility. They are also the party that represents the 2nd amendment. I make decent money and my check gets taxed to hell and back especially if I work any overtime.

 

I am a generous soul, but I do not feel that illegal immigrants should get immediate access to programs that the average American man cannot, such as Social Security that is supposed to be for the people that paid into it for their entire lives. I do not believe in open borders, and I am very much against the importing of these Muslim refugees. I have a huge heart for their plight but seeing what has happened in some European countries like France, The UK and Germany to me is a huge indicator that these people will not integrate into our society nor respect our laws or our women. I have a wife and two daughters to look out for, and these refugees have proven they cannot be trusted to respect our women folks nor our laws. My friend is from Detroit Michigan and says you would not believe how they act back there and that is within our own country.

 

Lastly I take my 2nd amendment rights very seriously and I do not agree that we have a gun problem. The US is near the top of the list in gun crimes, however if you remove New York, New Orleans, Chicago and LA from those statistics we fall to 4th from the bottom in gun crimes. Coincidentally those cities have the most stringent anti-gun laws. I do not want the rest of the country to devolve into the shooting gallery that those cities are.

 

OK there you have it as to why I vote Republican. Let's get this started and please if you cannot comment without venom, then please don't comment. Thank you all because I really want to understand how someone could vote for a person like Hillary. Keep it in context ya'll.  

 

 

 


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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 03:04 PM

Neither major party is legitimately what they pretend to be, nor have they been for some time.   The Republicans, longer than the Democrats, perhaps, but both are in the toilet now and should best be flushed.    I have always tried to vote for the candidate I felt was most honest, and that has had my vote spread on the political spectrum from Dennis Kucinich to Bo Gritz.  It seems, if a candidate can get to the ticket, they're probably too far gone into the corruption for my taste.   Since our votes mean so little, best to find different grounds for all our relationships.  

 

I am a second amendment supporting Bernie fan.  But Clinton and her henchwomen cheated me out of my candidate of choice.  But fuck it, the republic was lost long before this election cycle, and sure, we would like to think we had a chance to get it back.  

 

Just enjoy the life you have and know this too will pass.   Who are we, and why are we here?   Is it to make some system that will come and then go away again?  Who the fuck do we think we are?  I bet we're not that.


Edited by Alder Logs, 17 January 2017 - 03:46 PM.

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#3 August West

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 03:33 PM

Because I just want them to leave me alone.
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#4 Myc

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 04:14 PM

I vote because one time, at band camp.........

 

You never know. If you pitch enough pennies into that wishing well, perhaps one day one of those wishes will come true. 

:clicks heels of ruby slippers:


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#5 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:20 PM

I apply that same reasoning to buying one Lotto ticket in each drawing.   I figure the odds to be better there than with the current system we are told is democracy.


Edited by Alder Logs, 17 January 2017 - 05:21 PM.

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#6 Skywatcher

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:21 PM

The question as I understand it is why do I vote the way I do, not really a question of how I am registered. I vote for the candidates and the propositions that I feel come closest to my personal belief in what is fairest to all, myself, and supportive of my ideology.

I do not, nor have I ever, voted by party. I try to choose with as much information as I can gather, and pick by the actions that are most in line with my desire to feel supported.

 

I am a conglomerate of contradictions, I admit this.

 

I believe everyone must be treated and supported equally, and that diversity is the norm.  We must all coexist.

I understand why anyone would want to come and live in this country, yet do not think that just your presence on this soil, should entitle you to any government help. The citizens of this country deserve to come first. Until they commit to becoming a citizen and abiding by the laws and constitution of this country, I don't think anyone should be able to collect entitlements.  I do not think just because you were born here, you should automatically be a citizen. If one of your parents is becoming a citizen that is different.

 

Sharia law is not the law mandated in this county and if a person wishes to live by those belief systems, fine, but do not think that entitles you to not follow the laws of this country. I believe this is true for all belief systems.

 

Whether I personally choose to or not, I believe we have to maintain the right to bear arms. I have yet to hear a plausible reason however that this should include massive capacity assault rifles.

 

When it comes to candidates for any office, it is mostly seeming to me these days, a choice between the "lesser of evils". In the case of this presidency, there was no good choice in my opinion. I could not bring myself to support either of the final choices, so I picked what I hoped would be a choice that would support my personal rights and freedoms. 

 

I will at this time say, I believe whether you voted for Hillary or Trump or neither, you were making the best choice you saw.

 

I have no idea how this will all turn out. Our country needs changes, freedoms need to be protected, and any of these has a potential to go either way.

In the end, any real changes need to be made by each individual.

 

In 100 years, all of our choices made today, will effect our childrens children. They deserve that we all learn to think long term, and individually make our own best choices we can..............................


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#7 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 05:27 PM

 

In 100 years, all of our choices made today, will affect our children's children.

 

No guarantee of that at all.  There is no guarantee of tomorrow.  Ask any dinosaur. 


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#8 Skywatcher

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:18 PM

No guarantee of that at all.  There is no guarantee of tomorrow.  Ask any dinosaur. 

 

Agreed, but I must act as if the tomorrow's are a promise I make today.


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#9 Arathu

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 08:38 PM

I vote mostly Libertarian and have for a long time now but as Skye stated I refuse to vote for any "party line" at all.............AND I cringe every time someone says that a vote for anything other than the Red or Blue is wasted. Quite frankly I hold a mirror up for Red and Blue to gaze into so they may hopefully see where the wasted votes are in reality. If everyone that made this statement and those that DO NOT VOTE cast something other than a Red or Blue we have more choices than the absolute garbage that has floated to the top today ........................ (trying very hard NOT to be vile and bitter even though as veteran I still have many issues to work out)

 

 

I have yet to hear a plausible reason however that this should include massive capacity assault rifles.

 

The "good guys" and the "bad guys" (you tell me which is which) have massive capacity magazines they use in weapons FOR ASSAULTING THINGS. No rifle, no tool for that matter, is anything more or less than just a tool. Assault is a verb and a noun not an adjective.........there is no such thing as an assault rifle as a rifle is a tool just like any other.....does that mean there are assault baseball bats? .....and freedom requires responsibility and emotional maturity to the extreme. No one body of humans, individuated or collective, has even come close to earning the position of almighty and righteous keeper. None of them are trustworthy, none of them any more righteous, virtuous, or upstanding than any other.

 

I've been over sea's, I've been on multiple facets of this strange human gem, I acted as a brain washed patriotic idiot, and I can damn sure understand why a human would want to escape those places and come here (the grass is greener over there of course) The problems have ALWAYS been human and not geographic IMHO.  Now, I have an awesome wife and daughter that I love so deeply that I do not care what laws are passed, what executive order is given, what decree by some royalty has been declared, NO ONE will stop me (except by killing me and even then you better pray to your god that I'm wrong or the storm following my passing will be unprecedented  :biggrin: ) from defending them and those like them. I am a trained warrior and I am one of the good guys....for real. I have no ulterior motives, no monetary gains to be made, and no hidden agenda's.

 

I believe in the liberty and freedom given to me and everyone else by an intelligent universe....................and I pray that I can find within myself the discipline and responsibility to allow each and every other his or her own liberty. John Trudeau stated it really well........................ "TRUE Freedom requires the utmost responsibility" (paraphrased for now) 

 

The most important point to be gained from this thread is, IMHO, that we must continue this dialog (however difficult that becomes) and reach acceptable agreements amongst ourselves when conflict arises WITHOUT RESORTING TO assaulting each other with tools (which includes words and actions as well) regardless of what they are. By far the worst weapon ever created in human history is the television set. In fact it is a high speed high capacity multi channeled ASSAULT WEAPON......... these are my opinions and are likely to be wrong.................... I love you gals and guys! :hug:      


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#10 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:15 PM


Agreed, but I must act as if the tomorrow's are a promise I make today.

 

 

But just before that other thing, you said:

 

 

I have no idea how this will all turn out.

 

So, shouldn't we take this all a bit more lightly?   Take it easy.   Travel lightly. 

 

How did we get here in such a dark age?   Kali fuckin' Yuga... fuck!    Be in Sat Yuga and watch from there.  Best seats in the house.  

 

All the bugaboos are in the future.  What's now?   We are!   All the good stuff of being alive is always now.   What's correct now will be incorrect later.  Shittin' details.   The really good stuff is now, like how much I like you and wish I could be sitting by your fire talking with you.   Your light is that attractive.   You owe it to yourself to just enjoy yourself, as we enjoy you. 

 

The story of America is one with many half truths and just as many lies.   It's about standard for any story designed to pacify a populace.   It's okay to make it our story, but best if we see that it's still just a story, and we don't get to write that much of it.  

 

"When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat."

~George Carlin

 

Tell a young person how to do it and they're going to do it their way anyway.   Give them a toy and they'll break it.  Their world is theirs.   That seems to be a big part of what I have been learning lately, as younger people are moving in and taking over where I live.  We do the best we can.  Let's not take credit for all of future history.  

 

 

 

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

 

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

 

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

~Kahlil Gibran


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#11 Skywatcher

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:21 PM

The most important point to be gained from this thread is, IMHO, that we must continue this dialog (however difficult that becomes) and reach acceptable agreements amongst ourselves when conflict arises WITHOUT RESORTING TO assaulting each other with tools (which includes words and actions as well) regardless of what they are. :hug:      

This is the conclusion I too have arrived at. I regret saying things after the election expressing my fears, without considering how those words would be interpreted more carefully. I never mean offence, but now know that a few I consider friends, may not feel the same way, and that is my loss.


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#12 Arathu

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:31 PM

You've touched upon a place that holds emotional pain for me.............and here is a safe place to begin to exercise MATURITY, emotional maturity and healing............for all of us. The only loss will be if we allow differences to create divide in place of the polarity required for action...............WE CHOSE if that action, even if it is inaction, is constructive or destructive. 

All I can say is that I will never deliberately bring harm that is not defense.....................and I will always feel bad for it regardless.


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#13 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:53 PM

Arathu, I wish I had you living down the canyon from me, with lots of long magazines.


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#14 Juthro

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 12:31 AM

All I can say is that I will never deliberately bring harm that is not defense.....................and I will always feel bad for it regardless.


Nicely said.
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#15 Coopdog

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 02:59 AM

Once again I am humbled and grateful to be a part of this community. My reasons for starting this thread revolve mostly around the conversation I have to have with my old friend. Hoping I guess to get a hint at what he is going to throw at me to help me prepare as he is an ever present speaker and I know I better have my end of the conversation in order before I go into this debate. I can only humbly hope that it is as peacefully handled as this conversation in here.

 

Skywatcher, I have some huge respect for you and you can always feel free to speak your mind to me. ESPECIALLY if you have something to say to help me in my learning process. Arathu, I also respect the words you had to add to this conversation, and I am a diehard lifelong warrior for the right myself and will die and go to hell for anyone in my circle as anyone who knows me knows well. Honestly I figured to come in here and find this thread closed lol. Why am I not really surprised to find the exact opposite.

 

Alder as always your words are most appreciated and I figured to be reading them when I got home. Thank you for your sentiments. I hope more people chime in as I know there are some good points to be made on both sides of this never ending political circus. Thank you all for being just who you are and thank you for answering my question as it was important to me.

 

To all of you Peace and be safe...


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#16 Sidestreet

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 05:26 AM

It's great to see a conversation like this and it makes me proud to be a member here as well.  Quality political discussion is to be cherished by all of us, regardless of where we stand, because it was and is so often brutally oppressed.  Even here in a land founded on treason we've struggled for the freedom to openly debate and criticize policies and public figures.  The Sedition Act and the attack on the press during the civil rights era come to mind.

 

Your friend is not doing justice to that hard-won privilege of open debate with his simple-minded viciousness.  It might help to remind him that ad hominem attacks are a low form of argument and lend nothing to his positions.  They stifle the conversation (unless you and your like-minded buddies are sitting around agreeing with each other--the political circle jerk).  Not only that, they can keep him from truly understanding the issues.  It's a wide miss, saying that all Trump voters are racist.

 

We have to make an honest attempt to understand how our opponents see things or we get nowhere with each other.


Edited by Sidestreet, 18 January 2017 - 05:26 AM.

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#17 Arathu

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:25 AM

Right on! :meditate: This is freaking great...............I feel really good.................everyone should. See we can all live together and not even beat each other up.......... 


Edited by Arathu, 18 January 2017 - 09:03 AM.

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#18 CatsAndBats

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:34 AM

 

 

In 100 years, all of our choices made today, will affect our children's children.

 

No guarantee of that at all.  There is no guarantee of tomorrow.  Ask any dinosaur. 

 

 

 

Some of them made it:

 

[Direct Link]


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#19 Alder Logs

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:04 AM

 

We have to make an honest attempt to understand how our opponents see things or we get nowhere with each other.

 

We can guess about how many see things as they have seen it on TV.   Fair and balanced.

 

Democracy's proper functioning is dependent on an accurately informed populace.   Our available information has about the same pattern as birdshot from a sawed off 10 gauge.  The true powers that be control the propaganda and what's held secret.   Tell me, what's the chance we'll vote our way out of the dark woods? 


Edited by Alder Logs, 18 January 2017 - 11:10 AM.

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#20 Coopdog

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 02:09 PM

Oh man the mainstream media... OMG I cannot believe how they lead a lot of people around by the nose. Keep in mind I am not a Trump fan, but in his entire career he was never accused of any sort of racism until he decided to be president. Oh how the media painted it on him every day, saturating the media with that term "racist" while conveniently completely overlooking the fact that the Clintons both had mentors and people they avowed to look up to who were so very much involved in that very thing. This whole racist movement is killing my soul. I talk to a wide variety of people from knuckle dragging survivalists, to peace loving hippies to very educated people and to people who never went anywhere or did anything. I literally NEVER hear people say things with race hate in their hearts. I am sure they are out there but my friends list is all the colors out there and nobody is hating on anyone, but the media would have us believe we all think like we did in the 30's and 40's.

 

My own father was racist as hell when I was a kid, but gradually even he has come around to being a decent human being. Times are changing, but for some reason the folks that own all the media outlets want us to remain at odds with one another. I cannot believe how often it is on there. I find myself shying away from mainstream media more and more. As a matter of fact we just cancelled our cable...on purpose! I like to vote with my money when I can and that is one I was very glad to withdraw from.

 

A good friend asked me where I go for factual news recently. I laughed! Factual news? Man I go to a few of the local news sites for local news and mostly just browse the headlines. I have nothing to do with FOX or CNN but I browse several sites that have news streams, and I even like to visit the BBC site as they often have a completely different slant on US news that is pretty amusing to read sometimes. You have to filter every single item through your own intellect and instincts and just figure out for yourself what resonates with your truth instinct. We have no way of knowing and they could tell us anything they want to, and if they repeat it enough it becomes truth in most people's view. Like the Racist thing.

 

OK time to get ready for work.

 

Peace and be safe...


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