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Catattack some Agar 3.0


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#801 CatsAndBats

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 10:06 AM

 

You can store your jars upside down and when you open them in your clean space, put the lids down with the threads facing down and your jars too. Most excess will come out. :biggrin:

 

Ah, good.  I thought I had seen this tip in one of your previous posts.

 

Here's my cheapass starter SAB.

 

 

 

 That lid isn't snug though. Could prove problematic. You could ditch the lid and use a towel in a 10% bleach solution or a soapy solution with 5% lactic acid or citric acid content (use towel as base, sanitize all your gear, spray the inside down and place the clear part over your gear. Nawmean?


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#802 onediadem

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 12:29 PM

Or, you could soak paper towels in alcohol and place them between the lid and the box. You can reuse them also.


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#803 MeadMaker

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:59 PM

That lid isn't snug though. Could prove problematic. You could ditch the lid and use a towel in a 10% bleach solution or a soapy solution with 5% lactic acid or citric acid content (use towel as base, sanitize all your gear, spray the inside down and place the clear part over your gear. Nawmean?

 

Or, you could soak paper towels in alcohol and place them between the lid and the box. You can reuse them also.

 

Hmm.  And I thought deciding on what I was going to do to restrict the arm holes was going to be more of a challenge.  I didn't think the SAB had to be airtight, just enclosed to the point where the air would be fairly still and air drafts wouldn't be likely to form.  Now that I think about it though, I'm wondering if during a SAB session there is enough of a change in air temp to created an updraft if the top isn't sealed well.  Perhaps I'm better off getting a good seal on the lid and don't sweat (no pun intended) the armholes too much?  One thing I'm concerned with if having a good seal on the lid AND a greater restriction on the armholes, is any arm pullback pulling air into the box.  With a seal on the lid, wouldn't tighter restriction on the armholes create more violent air movement through the available cracks?  Breathable arm sleeves attached to the openings seems like a possible solution, but a quick search makes this seem like a costly route.  Towel doused in bleach solution or IPA hung over each hole?  Old long-sleeve cotton T-shirt sleeves?  :huh:



#804 MeadMaker

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 10:01 PM

 

 

Bob Smith (Maliki)

 

. . . for the gloves i just used Subway sandwich bags taped all around the edge of the wholes with ducttape. The end cut off of the bag with a rubberband rolled into the end of the bag inside the box. And latex exame gloves, so what happens here is the gloves are on, all materials in box ready to go , I slide hands into holes thru bag where the rubberband closes snug around my wrist. Spray the insides with bleach solution let stand for a few minutes and start work its all good.......Blessed Be. . .

 

Maybe I'll try this one.  I've got a ton of these sitting in my car from lunch runs.  They make great car trash bags.  Just hook one over the shifter.  Except for when my wife gets into the passenger seat!  :biggrin:



#805 MeadMaker

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:29 AM

Anyone try this method for sealing the lid?

 

 

Chu (Chu) 

 

. . . I forgot to mention in the materials 1 silicon tube. I plan to make a good seal between the lid and the box by passing vaseline on the lid and pressing it against the silicon on the box edge. . . .

 

 It should work, but it didn´t... The silicon sticked to the lid as well, even with the vaseline, so I believe I f'd up the seal when pulling the lid away. I had no option, since the lid was going to be permanently attached. 

67591.jpg 
 
Now, I´m not sure what to do. Maybe I´ll try to put a little more silicon over the silicon that is already there. Or I´ll see how saran wrap works for sealing . . .
 

I solved the problem of sealing the lid with saran wrap and tape



#806 CatsAndBats

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 08:40 AM

Check this post/thread out:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...-kit/?p=1351585



#807 MeadMaker

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:21 AM

Ok, so I got busy last night.

 

I went with the idea from onediadem for sealing the top.  Paper towels, then soaked in bleach solution.  It seemed to be effective, but I need a better long-term solution, as this took some careful balancing and is a bit of a pain.

 

SAB prep.
 
I upturned my agar half pints as CatsAndBats suggested, but I think I should have done it much sooner.  It may not have helped though, as I recall seeing some comments regarding T-TEK having some issues with agar setting and Cats expressed some misgivings about whether my agar would even set.  I did get a set mass, but it was extremely soft, to the point where I couldn't even feel any resistance when I was trying to deposit material on the surface.  This, combined with the fact that my SAB is not completely clear, plus the condensation forming on the walls, made things very challenging.  The addition of BRF and hardwood pellets may not have been the best move for first agar attempt either.  It made for some particulates that will make it harder to distinguish any infection.  Hardwood tea may have been a better alternative to the pellets.
 
Upside down agar
 
Here you can see how I hung paper towels over the arm holes with duck tape.  I then soaked them in bleach solution.  Again, a better long-term solution needed.  I had to replace the paper towels a couple of times once the moisture soaked thoroughly under the tape (the duck tape was effective throughout the session and didn't have to be replaced).  I decided not to make use of the Sub-sandwich bags.  I tried them, but they felt too bulky and in retrospect I'm glad I didn't use them, as I did have issues with available space and the warmth of the room was making me sweat profusely.  I was able to keep my hands and arms sweat-free and doused in bleach solution, but if I'd been using the bags they would have been sticking to me all over the place and possibly dripping sweat into the SAB.
 
After
 
Here's the carnage afterwards.  Red is from dumping the excess liquid.  If I opt for a SAB liner next time it will be a cloth towel rather than paper towels.  They got ripped to shreds moving things around.  Dental pick was used for depositing sample tissue.  Small bowl full of bleach solution for dental pick between jars and for soaking paper towels to keep things wet down.  BBQ lighter is for flaming dental pick between jars.
 
The bloody aftermath
 
 
Shiitake Agar
 
Hoping I was grabbing good Mycelium from these larger shiitake, as they had dried out a bit.
 
Shiitake Agar
 
 
Shiitake Slurry Agar
 
These shiitake dried quite nicely into little shriveled nuggets on the bottom shelf of the fridge by the time I got to them. I blended about half a dozen in 50 mL of distilled water, then grabbed some small rehydrated chunks with the dental pick.
 
Shiitake Slurry Agar
 
Some chunks bigger than what I thought ideal, but oh well.
 
Shiitake Slurry Agar closeup.
 
 
Tree Oyster Agar
This looked like some nice Mycelium pads on the stem bases of some store-bought oysters.
 
Tree Oyster Agar
 
 
King Oyster Agar
Tissue grabbed from inside of store-bought King Oyster caps. Also did one of gill scrapings.
 
King Oyster Agar

 

 

Now the waiting game begins.  Jars have hard water deposits from pressure cooking, so sorry if not the best views.

 

A note about safety.  I am always careful not to mix chemicals.  Although you see IPA & Windex in pics and I mention bleach solution, I did not use these different chemicals together.  Windex was used for some general cleanup of the work area.  Isopropyl was used for wiping down some items before the SAB session and allowed to completely dry.  Bleach solution was used to mop the floor in the room used, and to wipe down the SAB and equipment during session.



#808 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:45 AM

Good luck!

 

All that paper towel and sealing the top seems unnecessary.  If you make your arm holes in the bottom of the tub, you can turn it on its side.  Just put everything inside with the lid off, then put the lid on and turn it around so that the arm holes are facing you.  No need to drape the paper towel over the arm holes, either.  Wear gloves and wipe down your arms with alcohol.  CnB's alcohol-soaked paper towels lining the floor are another story but even they aren't a necessity.


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#809 MeadMaker

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:55 AM

Good luck!

 

All that paper towel and sealing the top seems unnecessary.  If you make your arm holes in the bottom of the tub, you can turn it on its side.  Just put everything inside with the lid off, then put the lid on and turn it around so that the arm holes are facing you.  No need to drape the paper towel over the arm holes, either.  Wear gloves and wipe down your arms with alcohol.  CnB's alcohol-soaked paper towels lining the floor are another story but even they aren't a necessity.

 

Translation: You [over]killed it.  Your world of agar is just beginning and this will be the first of many successes.  :biggrin:



#810 MeadMaker

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 06:46 PM

Good luck!
 
If you make your arm holes in the bottom of the tub, you can turn it on its side.  Just put everything inside with the lid off, then put the lid on and turn it around so that the arm holes are facing you.


Is the reason behind this to gain some real estate? I'd seen this done but wasn't sure why.

#811 Sidestreet

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:17 AM

Well, if your lid is clear then there's no need to turn it on its side.  I do it that way because my lid is opaque.  You can also put it upside down.  If you have a good flat surface to work on you don't need the lid at all if you put it upside down... damn I think I need to do that.  Then you could just put everything together on the surface, set the box down, and lift it right off once you're done.


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#812 MeadMaker

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 06:04 PM

Here's an update.  Tree Oyster and the Shiitake slurry from the dry mushrooms show no perceptible growth yet.  I think I might see a couple of small spots, but it's really hard to see through the condensation on the glass walls.

 

Shiitake from the stem base mycelium is showing slow growth.  Here's after 42 hours.  Doesn't look like any big difference in growth since then but hard to see, so no new pics.

SH 20180703 1825

 

King Oyster in comparison has significant growth.  Here's after 42 and 63 hours.  Pictures may not be taken from the same angle of view.

 

42 Hours

KO 20180703
63 Hours
KO 20180704

 

42 Hours

KO1 20180703 1812
63 Hours
KO1 20180704 143009

 

42 Hours

KO2 20180703 1812
63 Hours
KO2 20180704 143035

 

42 Hours

KO3 20180703 1819
63 Hours
KO3 20180704 143342

 


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#813 Sidestreet

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:42 AM

Nice!  All that looks really good, especially on your first transfer from store-bought mushrooms. 

 

I just noticed something else: how did you prep the hardwood pellets to mix into the agar?  Did you soak them so they dissolved?  I just got some that I want to prep for substrate.


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#814 MeadMaker

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:44 AM

Nice!  All that looks really good, especially on your first transfer from store-bought mushrooms. 

 

I just noticed something else: how did you prep the hardwood pellets to mix into the agar?  Did you soak them so they dissolved?  I just got some that I want to prep for substrate.

 

Good to hear!  Prep was as follows per my OPs:

First I used 540mL distilled water with a couple of black tea bags.
I heated the water on the stove until boiling, removed from heat and added tea bags.  Allowed to steep for a handful of minutes.
Then I poured into a bowl and placed in the microwave, heated for 1min.  Allowed to sit for about 1min.  Microwaved an additional minute.
Allowed to sit for about 1min.  Removed from microwave and squeezed moisture from tea bags.
Poured tea back to stovetop pan, added 1 Teaspoon Corn Syrup and 1 Teaspoon Brown Rice Flour.
Brought back to simmer, stirring frequently, until smooth texture.
Added six long hardwood pellets.  Stirred thoroughly.
20180620 233952
 
Poured back to measuring cup and as more than anticipated water loss had occurred, refilled to 500 mL.
Poured back to pan, stirring to ensure equal consistency.
Poured to measuring cup to facilitate easy pouring into 12 half-pint jars.

 

There is a little bit of fluid on the surface of last night's jars, but for the most part they have a good set.  Other than the free fluid, there is no perceptible flow to the agar mass when tilting the jar.  The hardwood particulate has also settled to the bottom, whereas it was evenly suspended before PCing.
 
Here's a closeup of the sedimentation that occured during/after PCing:
Sedimentation 20180701

 

I postulated that perhaps adding a hardwood tea might be preferred for agar.  The hardwood settled after pressure cooking, but there were still some particles that ended up on the jar sides during handling before the agar was set.  The agar also was a little soft.  I don't know if that was due mostly to the tea solution or if the hardwood played any part.

 

If you're using for substrate, these things may not be an issue.  As with other substrates, there are multiple options for hydration and sanitation.

 

If using hardwood for substrate, some professional growers have found that wood-lover edible species seem to like a soybean hull and hardwood mix.


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#815 Sidestreet

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:52 PM

I searched online for soybean hulls but couldn't find it available in less than tonnage amounts.  I'm happy just to have found the pellets because now I don't have to worry about dealing with a sawmill, although there is a decent one nearby.


Edited by Sidestreet, 05 July 2018 - 04:52 PM.


#816 MeadMaker

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:51 PM

I searched online for soybean hulls but couldn't find it available in less than tonnage amounts.  I'm happy just to have found the pellets because now I don't have to worry about dealing with a sawmill, although there is a decent one nearby.

You might try seeing if you have a Feed Store nearby. They might have them or be able to get their hands on some in smaller qty. I haven't gotten that far. We just changed rooms at our residence and lost about 50 Sq Ft so I'm having trouble fitting things as is, let alone a big bag of hulls.

I know someone had commented they used to have to buy them by the ton. Think that was Meyers Mushrooms and I think he's gotten together with TR of Earth Angel Mushrooms to get some (or he might have found a local farm source near him, can't remember which). TR just had a major loss so I don't know if he's dedicating time right now to taking piddly hull orders from small-scale growers but he seems like a pretty decent guy as does Meyers. You might try hitting up Meyers as a first contact. He'd probably respond if he has time. You can find both on the tube or oogle them.
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#817 Sidestreet

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 04:04 AM

Oh shit, I've watched a couple of TR's videos.  What happened?



#818 MeadMaker

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:02 PM

Oh shit, I've watched a couple of TR's videos.  What happened?


He went on vacation and stuff didn't get done right. Product was lost. About 4,000 bags potentially lost to contam. Someone got fired.

#819 MeadMaker

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:14 AM

Update:

 

I think the Tree Oyster might be a failure.  No noticeable growth so I think I might have transferred dead tissue.  I'm hesitant to ditch it yet though, as there's no sign of contam either.

 

Also partly because Shiitake agar from dried mushrooms made into a slurry finally showing some growth.  This is after 116 Hours (about 5 days).  Hoping it's not contam, as it looks a little on the gray side.
20180706 201537 SS 116
20180706 201840 SS 116

 

Shitake agar from the stem mycelium is finally showing some progress.
20180706 202121 SH 116
 
 Here, the strongest out of the three Shiitake jars, after 116 Hours (about 5 days).
20180706 202816 SH 116

 

King Oyster agar are showing significant growth.  Wondering if this growth pattern (cotton ball) vs. spreading flat over the agar surface is normal for Kings.  Or does it indicate something, regardless of species?
20180706 204121 KO 116
20180706 204238 KO 116
20180706 204408 KO 116
20180706 204509 KO 116
 
 

 

 

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#820 CatsAndBats

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 08:39 PM

post-147940-0-23027000-1533260283.jpg

 

 

 

Orissa pinning hard on agar, I just straight spawned these to grain.

 

Sorry that I haven't been around as much, life can get busy :biggrin:

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