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what's wrong with my grain spawn ?


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#1 andrewysk

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 03:34 AM

Hii, :blush:

 

pls take a look what wrong and what should i do with this spawn .. it is coffee ground and wheat grain mix.  have being in the dark for maybe 2 months.. 

initially i make it just for the sake of my first batch is dying... or too old.. because the weather is very cold out there.. winter here in germany.

 

i made it, it was clean... no mold. because i made it carefully in glove box..

i was thinking if can keep by spawn alive till spring... then i can use it to make more grain spawn . from there grain spawn will goes into my straw bale . btw, it is oyster spawn

 

but after so long it started to turn ugly like this * look at my photo*. hence it is no good for further culturing with this bottle. hence instead of dump it, why not let is pins and grow mushroom.. just take it as substrate to grow.. just like how ppl dump them out into a moist container and let it pin and fruit..

 

well, my questions are:

1. can i just let it pin straight from the bottle...

just take it as the jar is nothing more but poly tubing that straw log is constainted. this jar also contained my grain and coffee ground... can it not pin and grow mushroom if i put it by the window to see light ?

if i can let it fruit just sitting in the jar and grow mushroom from the opening just like that, how to do it ? or how to initiate it to fruit? is there anything i should do to prevent it from failing ? like misting the opening daily ?

 

2. it got a stench .. a bad stench.. but maybe because the opening area , you see it is yellowish.. but most part of it are still white and clean..  what should i do from here ? any remedy ? i hate to dump it away.. any salvation for it ?

 

 

helps from the experienced are very much appreciated.

 

truly

andrew

 

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#2 Ferather

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:04 AM

Bad smell, plus yellow liquid (fungal metabolites, bacteria materials) means you have an aggressive bacteria infection.

If you have some card, or agar take transfers and clean them if that's your only spawn, use peg transfers.

 

The bottom looks clean, dig some out outside, and be quick, wear a mask.



#3 Ferather

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:06 AM

I would also say your filter setup is not working as you want, as it looks like the infection started at the surface.



#4 andrewysk

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:10 PM

I would also say your filter setup is not working as you want, as it looks like the infection started at the surface.

hee hee,

 

i have never use filter before..  all my container were capped close.. no filter, no hole.. just i didn't tighten the lid..

 

i was wonder why ppl put air exchange hole on the lip since i tried before without any hole any mean of air exchange, and the mycelium still alive and thrive with no problem until they fully colonized the medium.. only then they become bad... so, as long as the grain is used before the mycelium turned bad, it should be ok..

in this case i was late using it.. ya.. my fault.

 

do you think air exchange really make any different ? because i manage to do it without and my mycelium thrive.. at least until they fully colonized the grain..  :biggrin:



#5 andrewysk

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

hii,

 

i have  CHOPPED the grain mycelium.. take a look.. is it any good ? this is my first time doing this.. wow, never thought the grain look like this color inside cool.. looked like century egg.. :biggrin:

 

how it is not smelly.. i just bag it with a brand new fridging bag and loaded it into my fridge.. vegetable section, at temperature of 4 deg C.

 

no more bad stench... so what can i do how to let it pins ?

is there any more bad bacteria inside ? or did i do any wrong thing ? pls advice.

 

with each mistake i learn to better.

 

 

btw, that's in the jar is my first batch, should be in the jar for 3 months.. maybe 2.5 months.. i did it dec 2016... i kept it in fridge till now.. :-p because winter outside..  do you think if i innoculate straw during cold winter and leave it outside, will it be a success ?

 

look at the yellowish ... is it bad or just old mycelium ?  i haven't open it to smell it..  what do you think.. tell me, and i will try to smell it tomorrow if needed... else, everytime i open the lid... it will be more infection.

do you think i can still use this jar to innoculate my next grain ? because spring is coming... need to get ready..

 

those batches i did before, the failture or loses ,i will just take it as lesson fee..

 

thanks.

 

 

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#6 Ferather

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:45 PM

hii,

 

i have  CHOPPED the grain mycelium.. take a look.. is it any good ? this is my first time doing this.. wow, never thought the grain look like this color inside cool.. looked like century egg.. :biggrin:

 

how it is not smelly.. i just bag it with a brand new fridging bag and loaded it into my fridge.. vegetable section, at temperature of 4 deg C.

 

no more bad stench... so what can i do how to let it pins ?

is there any more bad bacteria inside ? or did i do any wrong thing ? pls advice.

 

with each mistake i learn to better.

 

thanks.

 

Then you have a high-mid temperature anaerobic bacteria. You took the correct steps. Break it up into the bag (the bag is like gloves), let the grains get airy inside.

Keep it at 2-4°C as you are, it will take a few weeks to grow fully at that temperature, when ready, expand to agar for cleaning, or use cellulose.

 

Straw that has been bathed in lime to get about pH 7 - 8.5 will work well enough for a final substrate.

If you get naked-bald patches, areas not colonized, you still have bacteria involved.

 

 

btw, that's in the jar is my first batch, should be in the jar for 3 months.. maybe 2.5 months.. i did it dec 2016... i kept it in fridge till now.. :-p because winter outside..  do you think if i innoculate straw during cold winter and leave it outside, will it be a success ?

 

look at the yellowish ... is it bad or just old mycelium ?  i haven't open it to smell it..  what do you think.. tell me, and i will try to smell it tomorrow if needed... else, everytime i open the lid... it will be more infection.

do you think i can still use this jar to innoculate my next grain ? because spring is coming... need to get ready..

 

those batches i did before, the failture or loses ,i will just take it as lesson fee..

 

thanks.

 

The mycelium is pushing out gasses (as well as heat) and also bringing in gasses, the filters capture spores and bacteria endospores in the air.

Such as in your case, the jar is breathing if you like, and pulling in spores-endospores, that land on the grain and grow out.

 

While that is safe for some substrates, its it very un-safe when handling grain or grain like products.


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#7 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:38 AM

thanks.

 

The mycelium is pushing out gasses (as well as heat) and also bringing in gasses, the filters capture spores and bacteria endospores in the air.

Such as in your case, the jar is breathing if you like, and pulling in spores-endospores, that land on the grain and grow out.

 

 

 

 

i did 2 batches, but i don't feel like the mycelium contribute out any heat at all .. or very insignificant..

how much heat do they create ?

 

yes, now i know the hole and filter on the lid is important.. .

btw, how do i make filter for bag method ?  anyway to diy filter patch for the bag ?



#8 catattack

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:56 AM

https://mycotopia.ne...n-filter-patch/

 

not sure if they're worth DIY-ing, unicorn manufactures the lion's share of mushroom grain bags, and can be purchased all over the internet, just make sure that you get the correct filter size.

 

Mycelium benefits from light exposure btw.


Edited by catattack, 19 February 2017 - 09:57 AM.


#9 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:12 AM

 

hii,

 

i have  CHOPPED the grain mycelium.. take a look.. is it any good ? this is my first time doing this.. wow, never thought the grain look like this color inside cool.. looked like century egg.. :biggrin:

 

how it is not smelly.. i just bag it with a brand new fridging bag and loaded it into my fridge.. vegetable section, at temperature of 4 deg C.

 

no more bad stench... so what can i do how to let it pins ?

is there any more bad bacteria inside ? or did i do any wrong thing ? pls advice.

 

with each mistake i learn to better.

 

thanks.

 

Then you have a high-mid temperature anaerobic bacteria. You took the correct steps. Break it up into the bag (the bag is like gloves), let the grains get airy inside.

Keep it at 2-4°C as you are, it will take a few weeks to grow fully at that temperature, when ready, expand to agar for cleaning, or use cellulose.

 

Straw that has been bathed in lime to get about pH 7 - 8.5 will work well enough for a final substrate.

If you get naked-bald patches, areas not colonized, you still have bacteria involved.

 

Keep it at 2-4°C as you are, it will take a few weeks to grow fully at that temperature, when ready, expand to agar for cleaning, or use cellulose.

i don't understand what do you meant by this..

20170218_191202.jpg

this is the infected jar of colonized mycelium that i chopped off.. leaving the good part behind, which now is in a brand new bag and in fridge of vege section.

how should i go about doing it ? i don't need to make more agar.. i just want it to fruit because i have no confident of it to be absolutely containmination free.  but fruiting should be ok right ?



#10 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:17 AM

i mean, should i leave it in the fridge ? but will it pin ?

 

how can i make it pins and bear mushroom ?

i did last time, break 2 jar of good fully colonized mycelium and put them in clean bag... hang it in my room, at normal room ambient light..  it is winter outside.. hence i can only leave it in my room..

but after a few weeks... they started spoil.. hence i throw them away.

 

why won't it pin and bear mushroom ? it has got light, it has got room temperature... moisture is in the mycelium grain itself... it has got no changes at all.. only notice some mycelium started to colonize the bag itself.. but no pinning happen.

 

that's my question, how to make my fully colonized jar of grain pin and bear mushroom ?

 

if i leave it outside too long, it will turn yellow and i guess next will be smelly rot..

 

 



#11 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:19 AM

i thought fully colonized mycelium substrate will never spoil.. because it has got foot hold of the whole substrate.. .. but i was wrong...

all the exposed fully colonized mycelium substrate turn bad..

 

then how am i suppose to use my mycelium cake if i can make it fruit ?

 

can anyone advice me ? i am confused at this point.



#12 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:21 AM

i mean, i can use the grain spawn as fruiting medium itself right ?

and i can also use the same fruiting medium as expanding mycelium... to a bigger substrate or bigger grain medium..

 

i manage to do the later one, but make it to fruit ... i have never done it successfully without rotting.

it didn't even pin !!



#13 catattack

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:22 AM

Honestly, I'd start over if I were you. I mean try fruiting it but getting clean healthy myc is a much better strategy than trying to get contaminated cultures to respond IMHO.



#14 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:48 AM

remember this jar ? that i said i made it almost 3 months ago.. and i put it in fridge...
i just have a sniff... it doesn't smell like fresh mycelium smell, but it doesn't smell rot or stench.. just no good smell, but also not rot smell.. so is this good or not good ?  got bacteria infection ?
20170218_191211.jpg
so again, i break the jar, rinsed it in running water , dried it with kitchen tower and bag it in a brand new bag.. and put in fridge.. how can i use it to make mushroom ?
 
 
 

 

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#15 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:53 AM

Honestly, I'd start over if I were you. I mean try fruiting it but getting clean healthy myc is a much better strategy than trying to get contaminated cultures to respond IMHO.

hii catattack.

i truly understand it.. because almost everybody said the same thing.  :mellow:

 

but what i don't understand is, if i started again from new, and the mycelium colonized the grain medium.. all clean.. all done right to the word.. and now, is the junction of decision. :blush:

case scenario: i don't need more mycelium. i have had enough of grain mycelium.

i want this clean colonized mycelium to bear fruit instead of expand to more grain or substrate. it comes to the same thing.. how can i make it fruit ? because it will still be all white covered mycelium.. no pinning..   will it not ?  :meditate:



#16 catattack

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:06 AM

 

Honestly, I'd start over if I were you. I mean try fruiting it but getting clean healthy myc is a much better strategy than trying to get contaminated cultures to respond IMHO.

hii catattack.

i truly understand it.. because almost everybody said the same thing.  :mellow:

 

but what i don't understand is, if i started again from new, and the mycelium colonized the grain medium.. all clean.. all done right to the word.. and now, is the junction of decision. :blush:

case scenario: i don't need more mycelium. i have had enough of grain mycelium.

i want this clean colonized mycelium to bear fruit instead of expand to more grain or substrate. it comes to the same thing.. how can i make it fruit ? because it will still be all white covered mycelium.. no pinning..   will it not ?  :meditate:

 

 

So you do have completely clean master mycelium somewhere? Or are able to obtain new culture?

 

The answer to most pinning problems is almost always more fresh air exchange (FAE), in my humble opinion (IMHO) of course.



#17 Ferather

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:50 AM

I did ask if it where his only spawn, if you have master's just start again, however what you are doing is learning more about prevention.



#18 Ferather

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:53 AM

I would start with tools and equipment, then you will most likely result in more constant clean spawn-grows.

If you have no SAB (still air box), I would suggest making one, even large clear bags can work.

 

Then invest in a cheap proven method of filtering your spawn jars, or bags.



#19 catattack

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:13 PM

I did ask if it where his only spawn, if you have master's just start again, however what you are doing is learning more about prevention.


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#20 andrewysk

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:46 PM

yes, i have clean master. still all white in fridge. same in a jar without FAE.. :=)

 

if i strip a clean full colonized mycelium just on an exposed area.. and mist it often.. will it stink after a few days of exposing to everything in the air ?

 

i do have a big glove box.. a big one.. the biggest plastic organizing box i ever found in ikea ... just for the mycelium.. did it before i started making any mycelium. because i am a believer that air is full of bad guys..






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