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Brf cakes to bulk


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#1 The1unknown

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:59 AM

Complete noob on my first grow. I have 10 pf jars fully colonized and 10 more about 70% colonized. I plan on using my cakes as spawn to bulk. My question is do I use the cakes when they appear fully colonized or do I wait the extra week and allow them to consolidate before using them. Thanks in advanced for any answers.

#2 MonoJoe

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 08:26 PM

While cakes CAN be used as spawn it is typically frowned upon since most folks use spores with brf which can contain contaminants. The preferred practice for bulk would be agar work in order to ensure your spawn (grains) is clean.

From my experience cakes do best fruited as cakes. For spawning bulk typically grains are used which requires a pressure cooker.

#3 BigTexas

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:11 PM

Im about to try TV's guide to inoculation. Making my BRF jars into slurry and inoculating my tubs without grain spawn. 


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#4 wharfrat

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:22 PM

While cakes CAN be used as spawn it is typically frowned upon since most folks use spores with brf which can contain contaminants. The preferred practice for bulk would be agar work in order to ensure your spawn (grains) is clean.

From my experience cakes do best fruited as cakes. For spawning bulk typically grains are used which requires a pressure cooker.

cakes can be used with excellent success as a substrate inoculate, no matter whether spores or a culture was used..


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#5 wharfrat

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:26 PM

Complete noob on my first grow. I have 10 pf jars fully colonized and 10 more about 70% colonized. I plan on using my cakes as spawn to bulk. My question is do I use the cakes when they appear fully colonized or do I wait the extra week and allow them to consolidate before using them. Thanks in advanced for any answers.

i would use them once you are positive they are 100%, if ya wait any longer cakes will want to fruit in the jar. I know some will say let it go, and you can, but just my preference. 



#6 MLBjammer

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:12 AM

^^Good advice, as always.

 

Use a cheese grater to shred the cakes into smaller pieces--more inoculation points for a larger bulk.


Edited by MLBjammer, 22 February 2017 - 06:13 AM.

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#7 MonoJoe

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:22 AM

Usually if someone is wanting to get into bulk I recommend grains since they most likely want more mushrooms faster. Which grains would be superior since they can be shaken for faster colonization, more innoculate per jar and break up with a simple shake. As yall know Im guessing.

Grains are way easier than cakes once your technique is down.

My dirty secret is that I inoculate grains with spore fairly often and have good success given spores are from a trusted supplier.

#8 The1unknown

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 07:39 AM

Ty for all your responses. I'm aware that grain would be easier to spawn to bulk but as of right now I don't have a pc(will get one very soon). This is also my first grow as well and my first thought was going straight pf tek but after tons of research I realized that going to bulk doesn't seem to difficult. The hardest part of it I see is getting proper FEE and RRH in my FC. I may be wrong but I think a little common sense and close observation goes along way in getting that correct. And with B+ and GT cubes I'm bound to still get some fruits and learn a bit in the process.

#9 CatsAndBats

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:53 AM

I recommend grains since they most likely want more mushrooms faster.

 

If one wants anything in a hurry, one probably picked the wrong hobby in my humble opinion. What's the rush?

 

Grains are way easier than cakes once your technique is down.
 

 

How so? Cakes are pretty easy. Follow up question/s, What is your grain prep technique? Grain type? Hydration method? Et cetera et cetera

 

My dirty secret is that I inoculate grains with spore fairly often and have good success given spores are from a trusted supplier.

 

Spore germination on grain is pretty inefficient IMHO. Not to mention since no spore syringe is completely sterile, it's probably unwise to inoculate straight to grain as one could end up with crates full of contaminated quart jars.


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#10 BigTexas

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:04 AM

I can get BRF jars showing dime to nickle sized patches in less than 3 days, IMHO BRF cakes are easier than preparing grain, little guess work and the ratio is easy 2:1:1 (Verm/BRF/Water) as I have not been able to get the water content perfect for rice. What may work for some might not work for all, this hobby is all about trail and error, experimenting with mixing and matching things. Have to find what works best for you and your environment. My first grow I had 40 half pints colonize 100% with no contams, I was pretty proud of it for my first ever run. My second run, 0% success. Nothing spawned and it was from the same syringe. You win some, you lose some. Have to expect the worst, don't expect it to always work. I thought my first run was going to go bad but my 2nd one I ended up with no spawn. 


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#11 CatsAndBats

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:07 AM

 This is also my first grow as well and my first thought was going straight pf tek but after tons of research I realized that going to bulk doesn't seem to difficult.

 

Everything seems easy in theory. Put this in your search bar: [ site:mycotopia.net contamination ]

 

Far be it from me to be discouraging but there are so many variables in this hobby, it's quite rare that someone on their first or second grow to have tremendous success. If it were as easy as just getting a spore syringe and jumping to big gorgeous canopies, this site's content would be considerably smaller.

 

Just saying, that said, let's grow! I do wish you perennial success!


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#12 CatsAndBats

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:08 AM

I can get BRF jars showing dime to nickle sized patches in less than 3 days, IMHO BRF cakes are easier than preparing grain, little guess work and the ratio is easy 2:1:1 (Verm/BRF/Water) as I have not been able to get the water content perfect for rice. What may work for some might not work for all, this hobby is all about trail and error, experimenting with mixing and matching things. Have to find what works best for you and your environment. My first grow I had 40 half pints colonize 100% with no contams, I was pretty proud of it for my first ever run. My second run, 0% success. Nothing spawned and it was from the same syringe. You win some, you lose some. Have to expect the worst, don't expect it to always work. I thought my first run was going to go bad but my 2nd one I ended up with no spawn. 

 

 

I wish I could give this post 1000 "likes"


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#13 MonoJoe

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:43 AM

I recommend grains since they most likely want more mushrooms faster.

 
If one wants anything in a hurry, one probably picked the wrong hobby in my humble opinion. What's the rush?
 

Grains are way easier than cakes once your technique is down.

 
How so? Cakes are pretty easy. Follow up question/s, What is your grain prep technique? Grain type? Hydration method? Et cetera et cetera
 

My dirty secret is that I inoculate grains with spore fairly often and have good success given spores are from a trusted supplier.

 
Spore germination on grain is pretty inefficient IMHO. Not to mention since no spore syringe is completely sterile, it's probably unwise to inoculate straight to grain as one could end up with crates full of contaminated quart jars.

This hobby is very fast paced compared to cacti, fruits and vegetables.

Oats are my preferred grain which is super cheap. A 24 hour soak in coffee gypsum water then a short simmer, rinse then fill jars around 3/4 full. Screw on grain lid (sfd with ship). Foil the top and PC for 2 hours. Done!! My 16qt. PC hold 7 qts at a time which is roughly 3 mini monos. No measuring needed.

The germination times on grains is not much different than cakes. You make up for it when you shake it. So your saying that spawning pf cakes to bulk wont give you a crate of contamination? How would this work. Spores used in both cases could trich out. I fruit at spawning so I can see if its dirty ASAP.

Dime sized growth in 3 days? Sounds like your using LI or LC which a grain jar could be ready to spawn in under 2 weeks.

#14 CatsAndBats

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 12:47 PM

 

 

I recommend grains since they most likely want more mushrooms faster.

 
If one wants anything in a hurry, one probably picked the wrong hobby in my humble opinion. What's the rush?
 

Grains are way easier than cakes once your technique is down.

 
How so? Cakes are pretty easy. Follow up question/s, What is your grain prep technique? Grain type? Hydration method? Et cetera et cetera
 

My dirty secret is that I inoculate grains with spore fairly often and have good success given spores are from a trusted supplier.

 
Spore germination on grain is pretty inefficient IMHO. Not to mention since no spore syringe is completely sterile, it's probably unwise to inoculate straight to grain as one could end up with crates full of contaminated quart jars.

This hobby is very fast paced compared to cacti, fruits and vegetables.

Oats are my preferred grain which is super cheap. A 24 hour soak in coffee gypsum water then a short simmer, rinse then fill jars around 3/4 full. Screw on grain lid (sfd with ship). Foil the top and PC for 2 hours. Done!! My 16qt. PC hold 7 qts at a time which is roughly 3 mini monos. No measuring needed.

The germination times on grains is not much different than cakes. You make up for it when you shake it. So your saying that spawning pf cakes to bulk wont give you a crate of contamination? How would this work. Spores used in both cases could trich out. I fruit at spawning so I can see if its dirty ASAP.

Dime sized growth in 3 days? Sounds like your using LI or LC which a grain jar could be ready to spawn in under 2 weeks.

 

 

Inefficient as in a waste of spore water and/or spores. Proper grain hydration should leave the substrate (grain in this case) drier than BRF/PF so when spores are added one will end up with ungerminated (is that a word?) spores, which is IMHO, inefficient.

 

Shooting untested spore syringes into quart jars full of grain can leave one with crates of contaminated grain spawn. Not crates of bulk, maybe I was unclear.


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#15 MonoJoe

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

Ahh I see now. A trusted supplier of spores is the key for sure which can be diluted with sterile water if desired. Each syringe should be then tested via inoculation once proven "clean" your good to go. Yes nasties pop up on occasion but who doesnt get a dirty plate, jar, cake or tub.

Grain is like $15 for 50 lbs. How far does $15 get you with brf and verm? I honestly have no Idea. tossing a couple jars even at the smallest of doubt is no big deal. Better safe then sorry!!

I feel my technique and procedure far exceeds majority of the cake cartel.

Everyones experience is different which is why what works for you may not for me yatta yatta. At the end of the day for me not having to keep up with plates and transfers plus buying agar, pp5s, SABs is totally worth it.

The BE of cakes fruited as cakes is very very efficient though.

#16 The1unknown

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:13 PM


This is also my first grow as well and my first thought was going straight pf tek but after tons of research I realized that going to bulk doesn't seem to difficult.


Everything seems easy in theory. Put this in your search bar: [ site:mycotopia.net contamination ]

Far be it from me to be discouraging but there are so many variables in this hobby, it's quite rare that someone on their first or second grow to have tremendous success. If it were as easy as just getting a spore syringe and jumping to big gorgeous canopies, this site's content would be considerably smaller.

Just saying, that said, let's grow! I do wish you perennial success!


#17 The1unknown

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:16 PM

Contams are actually my biggest concern. I plan on keeping it simple pasteurized 50/50 poo/verm in a lined pan. Let myc spread and fruit in a perlite based FC and treat them kinda like a big cake. Regular fanning 12/12 light cycle.

#18 MonoJoe

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:22 PM

Have you considered using a mono for fruiting? They are more set and forget given your sub is properly hydrated. Sgfc require a lot more misting an fanning unless your seeking the more hands on approach.

Just a thought.

#19 The1unknown

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:45 PM

Have you considered using a mono for fruiting? They are more set and forget given your sub is properly hydrated. Sgfc require a lot more misting an fanning unless your seeking the more hands on approach.

Just a thought.



#20 The1unknown

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:46 PM

MonoJoe
Today, 09:22 PM
Have you considered using a mono for fruiting? They are more set and forget given your sub is properly hydrated. Sgfc require a lot more misting an fanning unless your seeking the more hands on approach.

Just a thought.


I'm not doing SGFC. It'll be set up more like a mono tub but my sub is only going to be 3" deep and I'm concerned a shallow sub won't keep my humidity high enough. I plan on trying a full mono setting next time. This way just feels a bit easier for my first grow.




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