Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

redboy bulk grow from spores, improved pasteurization, testing added heat or no added heat


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:03 PM

Continuing on my quest to get a fruitful bounty on bulk grows with manure.

 

First time I failed completely.  Stalled mycelium after spawning, never recovered.

 

Second time the mycelium stalled for a few days but then recovered after introduction of a lot of fresh air.  

 

Turns out I was pasteurizing at too low temperature.  My oven thermostat is off.  I figured out I need to set it to 220 to get a real life temp of 160.  There was probably some invisible bacterial thing that was stronger than the mycelium.  Until the fresh air came in.

 

Harvest was still underwhelming on this second grow because of 3 reasons probably.  

 

1. sub depth was only 2 inches..  not enough water and food to pump out fat ones

 

2. added heat created a lot of condensation that pooled at the bottom of the fruiting chamber..  drying out the tray that the mushies were growing in. My setup is a deep tray inside a larger tub.  any condensation on the walls runs down to the bottom of the larger tub and pools there.  I also provide gentle bottom heat.  My house in winter is always around 62 degrees.  I have to wear sweaters to be comfortable inside.  This temperature differential creates a lot of condensation.

 

3. bad pasteurization and maybe low spawn ratio made the spawn run take a long time.  time that the sub was losing water.

 

 

Things I want to fix:

 

Shorten overall time from spawning to fruiting so that not so much water is sucked out of the substrate. Do this by increasing spawn to sub ratio, pasteurizing properly, and covering with aluminum foil during spawn run.

 

 

Thing I want to test:

 

I am curious if I really do need to heat my tubs even in a house that's at 62 degrees.  I have two tubs going and will heat one of them during fruiting and not heat the other one during fruiting.

 

pics are always nice  :cool:

 

 

deep tray (4 to 5 inch sub depth) covered in foil.  there are two overlapping sheets of foil in the middle.  it's actually a huge gap for air exchange.  also holes poked on the edges, and I cut a little window for observation.  It seems to me that there are plenty of openings for gasses to diffuse in and out of sub.  Im open to comments or criticisms.

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 8.38.14 AM.png

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 8.38.32 AM.png

 

 

48 hours after spawning... mycelium looks happy!!  Looking waaay better than the last time I tried this with shitty pasteurization technique.

Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 8.38.52 AM.png


  • Sidestreet, fahtster, coorsmikey and 4 others like this

#2 hyphaenation

hyphaenation

    Former Staff

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 13,330 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:06 PM

62 is decent ...a tiny bit slow growth but also slow for contams. You turn down to 70 for fruiting anyways so thats okay to. You should be just fine. Here in Canada its almost always 60 or below in the shade.
  • orangutan likes this

#3 DocOct

DocOct

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 163 posts

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:20 PM

I like that your getting a system for your bulk grows, i found that having my own system that fit my and the myceliums needs made a world of difference
  • Arathu and orangutan like this

#4 DocOct

DocOct

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 163 posts

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:21 PM

Btw the once the mycelium is more colonized it will generate its own heat so 62 will be just fine
  • orangutan likes this

#5 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 04 March 2017 - 02:56 PM

Fully colonized in 8 days.  I left the trays covered for one more day to make sure. Yesterday I took off the aluminum foil and started fanning 2x per day.  In addition I have several filtered holes in the tubs.

 

Added heat didn't seem to make much of a difference even in colonization times.  I took one of the tubs off heat after 3 days.  Even in a house that's always in the low 60s, the unheated tub stayed in the mid-high 70s.  The heated tub stayed at around 80 throughout colonization.

 

Either way didn't make much of a difference.  They both became 100% colonized within 24 hours of each other, the unheated one a little behind.

 

Now I have them both off heat and the substrate temps are in the low 70s for both of them.  Fanning and patiently waiting.

 

How many of you cover your subs during colonization?  I covered mine with aluminum foil.  This caused some pooling of condensation on top of the sub.  I removed it as best I could.  Is this ok?  Any way around it?

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-04 at 11.42.35 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-04 at 11.43.05 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-04 at 11.43.23 AM.png

 

I've seen others cover their subs with foil.  The reason I'm trying it is because I want to prevent water evaporating from the sub as much as I can.  My last grow was disappointing because the sub had dried out.  Also I want to create a sharp signal to pin when I take it off.

 

What do yall think?

 


  • Jeepster likes this

#6 Jeepster

Jeepster

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 106 posts

Posted 04 March 2017 - 03:57 PM

Looking forward to watching your progress!

#7 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,403 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 04 March 2017 - 07:24 PM

Looks good, man,

 

I don't incubate bulks, just put them straight into fruiting conditions.  As long as you are using a filtered FAE system, I think it's the way to go.

 

It looks like you are using a lot of straw, and straw tends to dry out very quickly.  And maybe your bulk mix was a little dry to begin with, as it shouldn't lose much moisture during colonization.

 

Personally I would case any sub with a large straw content, just to help avoid premature moisture loss.


  • orangutan and Jeepster like this

#8 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:48 PM

I'm trying to prevent drying this time in response to my last experience.  

 

My last experience had no straw.  It was actually 50/50 coir manure.  

 

The sub depth was only 2 inches and I heated it.  By the time it was fruiting 3 weeks later, there wasn't a ton of water left in the sub.


  • MLBjammer and Jeepster like this

#9 peacefrog

peacefrog

    Peaceful Frog

  • OG VIP
  • 1,525 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 04 March 2017 - 09:13 PM

How did you heat it? You do mean during colonization correct?

Are you sure it was at full feild capacity at spawning?

Straw does tend to dry out faster than manure based subs, but if properly hydrated, and spawned at a good ratio, it should not loose that much moisture during colonization IME.

And as Jammer stated, a casing layer is good for plain straw and is how I used to run all of my monos with cubes when using plain straw. In a green house or other FC, where you can keep the RH and FAE very high, it will tend to give you better results without needing a casing. But I'm just a case everything type of grower.
  • MLBjammer and orangutan like this

#10 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:22 AM

I heated it with a setup I am trying.  I put a heat mat at the bottom of a tub, on top of it some bladders of water, and on top of the bladders of water a tray with the sub.  The bladders of water act as a heat bank and buffer the tray of substrate from the wild temperature swings of a bare heat mat.  It is a lot of extra engineering that I thought I had to do because my house is so cold in the winter... but I'm discovering that maybe it's not necessary.  Also I was heating it during colonization and also during pre-pinning.  Here are some pics in this thread.

https://mycotopia.ne...help/?p=1298745

 

 

 

And that last time, yes I'm positive it was at field capacity at spawning.  In fact, maybe too wet.  Here you can see both jammer and microbe telling me it was too wet.

https://mycotopia.ne...help/?p=1297533

 

I think last time my problem was a thin sub, that was heated too much, so now I am just trying to make sure it keeps all its water.  Less heating and a 4-5 inch thickness should be enough i hope.  And the extra measure of the foil during colonization.

 

So what do people think about the foil during colonization?


  • peacefrog likes this

#11 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,403 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 05 March 2017 - 03:40 AM

That's what it was then--the thin sub and all the heat--that caused it to dry out quickly.  Sorry, I read so many threads, I confuse myself sometimes.

 

Nothing wrong with covering your trays with foil.  Just poke a few holes in the foil, and you should be good.

 

I think you are on track for a better grow this time.


  • peacefrog and orangutan like this

#12 peacefrog

peacefrog

    Peaceful Frog

  • OG VIP
  • 1,525 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 05 March 2017 - 06:27 AM

Ok gotcha. Yea that's what I was thinking bottom heat with a thin sub will tend to dry out pretty quick. 4-5 inches is perfect for straw in a tray/mono IME. That's exactly what I did when I used it with a 1 inch or so casing. I remember some monster flushes.

Agreed that you should do better this go around. And yes foil is fine. I use it all the time with holes poked in it.

Good vibes.
  • MLBjammer and orangutan like this

#13 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:54 PM

So the pins are getting bigger.  There isn't that much difference between the heated and the unheated.  The unheated tub seems a day or two behind.

 

One interesting thing is that the heated tub has a more even pinset.  The unheated tub also has pins throughout the surface, but the pins in the middle are developing faster.

 

heated

Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.49.19 PM.png

 

 

unheated

Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.49.51 PM.png

 

 

We will see if it makes a difference in the end.



#14 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 12 March 2017 - 06:00 PM

Also, it looks like I have vert and/or  rosecomb.  I'm not really sure what do yall think.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.58.46 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.58.27 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.58.13 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-12 at 3.58.01 PM.png

 

 

By the way, I cloned a nice looking pin from one of these clusters.  The pin was well shaped and did not have any visible vert on it.  Do you think that any cultures that come from this clone will continue to have vert?


  • Jeepster likes this

#15 shakid

shakid

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 195 posts

Posted 12 March 2017 - 07:11 PM

I use 100% straw as my sub and cover my sub with a bin liner whilst colonizing i poke a couple of hole for ge once fully colonized i remove the cover and dunk for an hour then fan 3 to 4 times a day and mist when need i also dunk between flushes seems to work and keeps moisture in the sub
  • MLBjammer and CatsAndBats like this

#16 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,403 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:25 AM

Maybe a little verticulium.  It is hard to say, as it could be genetic mutations.  It's definitely not rosecomb.

 

The main thing I see is that you need more FAE, probably double what you have been giving them.

 

As to the clone, I would probably not use it.


Edited by MLBjammer, 13 March 2017 - 04:28 AM.

  • Sidestreet, Gnomesayin and orangutan like this

#17 orangutan

orangutan

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 246 posts

Donator

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:49 PM

@jammer I cant thank you enough for suggesting more FAE!!!

 

After I got your post I cracked the lids of my bins ever so slightly.  The mushrooms just exploded.  I can only imagine what it would have been like if I had cracked the lids last week and not half way through the flush.  

 

The vert-like symptoms went away somewhat, and one of the bins had a few monsters.

 

I can't wait to see what will happen with the second flush.

 

This is just a pretty clump that I HAD to photograph.

Screen Shot 2017-03-15 at 11.41.56 AM.png

 

I am still trying to dial in my FAE situation.  Now that the lids are cracked a tiny bit I may get some fungus gnats (I have them in my house, even after treating all my houseplants with nematodes, there is always one.  And one female full of eggs is all it takes).  I have been using these tubs with weather stripping on the lids for complete protection from fungus gnats.  I guess I'll have to drill bigger FAE holes.  I currently have 12 holes that are 1/8" in diameter.  That would be enough if the lids were not also airtight.  But my lids are airtight and maybe the holes need to be bigger or more numerous.

 

Anyway, THANKS.. for your suggestion.

 

 


  • MLBjammer, Heirloom , CatsAndBats and 2 others like this

#18 Jeepster

Jeepster

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 106 posts

Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:19 PM

Looking great!
  • orangutan likes this

#19 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,403 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:26 PM

I like about 6 3/8" holes around the perimeter of the tub, maybe 3" or so above the substrate.  I use polyfill, but you could go with tyvek, easy-felt, etc.  And I point a fan indirectly at the tub and never open it till I am ready to harvest.

 

But I am so glad it came out nice for you, man.  I know you had a couple disappointments, and it always feels good to rebound from that stuff.


  • orangutan likes this

#20 Nsnail

Nsnail

    Slug

  • Gold VIP
  • 234 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:57 AM

I'm curious about your weather stripping process for the lids. My last tub was horribly infested with fungus gnats and I'm sure they got in through the lid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!