Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 3 votes

No Roll MS/PE


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:16 PM

So we're still dinking around with multi spore cakes knocked up while waiting for the dominant sub-strain project to develop. I'm a big Fahtster fan and we've got a bunch of stuff in the works, all based on Faht teks.

In the meantime, I'm hoping to clarify some doubts and would love some feedback.

I'd initially intended to crumble and case 6 multi-spore Penis Envy cakes til I stumbled across Sidestreet's thread 'Ape Cakes'. If you haven't already, I suggest having a look as it's really impressive: https://mycotopia.ne...0219-ape-cakes/

I'm glad I refrained from the crumble, because watching these cakes pin has been insightful and delightful. They've got better pin sets than the MS B+, and the MS Thai Pink Buffalo combined. Sidestreet, big time thanks for crushing the 'PE doesn't do well on cakes' myth.

20170307_182237.jpg 20170307_182125.jpg 20170307_182144.jpg

So onto the doubts and questions:

1) I've noticed better pinning on the sides of all 6 cakes that are facing each other. Is this just a fluke, or perhaps due to microclimate between the cakes?

2) I normally would've rolled these cakes, but as I'd intended to crumble and case, I decided against it. It still produced really decent pin sets. Is the sole purpose of the roll to retain moisture? Does the roll 'in fact' produce larger fruits and/or better pin sets? I love the clean look of unrolled cakes. It's easier to watch what's happening and to recognize contams earlier on. What I'm trying to ask is if I'm missing a crucial element of fruit production if the roll is skipped.

Sidestreet thanks again for your thread. I never would've gone this route if it weren't for you, and it's been a blast.

Metta
-ChimX
  • fahtster, Microbe, Jeepster and 3 others like this

#2 CatsAndBats

CatsAndBats

    [^._.^]ノ彡 & /|\( ;,;)/|\

  • OG VIP
  • 8,468 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:22 PM

The DEC acts as an h2o reservoir and without a doubt provides larger fruits than a normal cake IMHO/IME. :biggrin:


  • ChimX, Jeepster and Triptomemes like this

#3 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:47 PM

Thanks so much for the feedback Catattack. I couldn't have hoped for a better first responder. It makes perfect sense how this should be the case. I've got them all in a well designed SFC that, theoretically, should maintain RH in the 90's, but without a guage it's difficult to say. Regardless, the direct contact with a verm layer, hydrated to field capacity, would obviously offer more channels for hydration. I can see the mycelium creeping along the edges of the tin foil, at the bottom of all the cakes, seeking moisture from the surrounding perlite.

Sorry to trouble you with another question, and it's something I should've added to my first post:

3) Regarding pinning - From what I understand, after 100% colonization, the next most important trigger for pinning is 'evaporation'. Would a full roll, as opposed to say the 'DEC', as you mentioned, hinder pinning? Is the evaporation process for triggering pins as effective through the verm layer, as it is from the clean surface area of mycelium?

I realize that a lof of these seem like very basic questions but, while I've long understood what most of the steps and rules are, I never really stopped to ask and understand many of the 'whys'.

I appreciate your patience and, moreover, the solid information you always afford in these matters. I'm simply obsessed with the art and the hows, as opposed to the whys, simply aren't feeding my hunger as well as they used to.

Thanks again,
Metta
-ChimX
  • ParallelWorld likes this

#4 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

Just some update pics. The two in the middle were incoculated 48 hours before the other 4. All six are covered in primordia and hyphal knotting. Though colonization was notably slower than both the B+/MS and TPB/MS cakes, the pin sets on the PE/MS cakes have been much more prolific.

Six unrolled multi-spore Penis Envy BRF cakes:
20170308_212905.jpg
20170308_212847.jpg
20170308_212740.jpg
20170308_212805.jpg

I'll be sure to post more as they mature. They've been a blast to take care of and quite different, in a number of aspects, than the other strains I've had the honor of caring for.

Metta
-ChimX
  • fahtster, MLBjammer, Jeepster and 3 others like this

#5 Jeepster

Jeepster

    Mycophage

  • Black VIP
  • 183 posts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:10 PM

Really nice!
  • ChimX likes this

#6 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,419 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:28 AM

I would say that is a fluke unless the cakes are really close to each other, like almost touching.

 

Rolling cakes produces a better micro-climate for fruiting, like a very thin casing layer that can be misted.  I personally never found rolling all that helpful (although some will swear by it).  I prefer dunks between flushes and double-end casing.  But that is just me.

 

No, rolling and DECing should help with the fruiting cycle, providing both better micro-climates and more available moisture.  Evaporation happens when subs are introduced to fruiting conditions.

 

I think your cakes look great.  And sometimes it's more genetics than your fruiting conditions that makes a big difference in production.  So keep printing, cloning and isolating.


  • fahtster and ChimX like this

#7 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:38 AM

All duly noted MLB. I'll certainly go with the DEC and dunks between flushes. The daily fanning and misting (3-4 times a day, for 3-4 minutes) has my arms feeling like wet noodles. I'm seriously considering picking up a cheap hair dryer to use without heat.

I'm stoked that you brought up genetics. The pics above are all MS cakes. I've got 3 PE dominant sub-strains via Fahtster's Isolation Tek, and tested them all on 3 quart jars (9 total). All colonized 100% and contam free, so I feel pretty confident the syringes are viable. As soon as I get some fruits I'll implement Faht's Oven Bag Cloning Tek. I'm not sure whether to do this with big fruits or clusters, so I'll do both.

Thanks again for the feedback MLB. Knowing why I'm doing things is infinitely more gratifying and helpful than just knowing how to do things.

Metta
-ChimX

Edited by ChimX, 09 March 2017 - 10:41 AM.

  • Jeepster, tailsmcsnails and ParallelWorld like this

#8 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,201 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:14 PM

Excellent work ChimX! Those look great....hahahahaha with all those knots and pins they look like they need a shave....................didn't someone say that cakes sucked? Hahahahaha I don't think so!

 

DEC works for sure......bulk in the ground even more. There are numerous ways to get it done but ALL teach the same fundamentals and the underlying essence............and YOU got it! :thumbs_up:

 

Very nice indeed!

 

A


  • ChimX, Jeepster and ParallelWorld like this

#9 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:00 AM

Happy cakes that narrowly escaped the cheese grater. (They have Sidestreet to thank.)

20170309_214120.jpg
20170309_214314.jpg
20170309_214159.jpg
20170309_214341.jpg
20170309_214130-1.jpg
20170309_214136-1.jpg
20170309_214230-1.jpg

And if for some sick reason you utterly detest mushroom pics and updates, hey look! Little baby kitties...

20170309_233700.jpg
20170309_233800.jpg

See? Time well spent...

Metta
-ChimX
  • fahtster, MLBjammer, Arathu and 2 others like this

#10 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,670 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:34 AM

Man, I'm so honored you're digging the methods and you are doing then justice for sure! Those are great looking cakes for the PE variety! really great stuff and I'm glad to be able to watch your projects. :thumbs_up2:

Faht
  • MLBjammer and ChimX like this

#11 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,670 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:39 AM

I would say that is a fluke unless the cakes are really close to each other, like almost touching.
 
Rolling cakes produces a better micro-climate for fruiting, like a very thin casing layer that can be misted.  I personally never found rolling all that helpful (although some will swear by it).  I prefer dunks between flushes and double-end casing.  But that is just me.
 
No, rolling and DECing should help with the fruiting cycle, providing both better micro-climates and more available moisture.  Evaporation happens when subs are introduced to fruiting conditions.
 
I think your cakes look great.  And sometimes it's more genetics than your fruiting conditions that makes a big difference in production.  So keep printing, cloning and isolating.


Totally agree with all of that... a DECing is very beneficial even though chimx'z cakes look great. I'm with ya on the roll part too.

Faht
  • MLBjammer likes this

#12 MLBjammer

MLBjammer

    Shaman Pouch!

  • Moderator
  • 9,419 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:55 AM

Anything Faht says about cakes, we would all do well to listen closely.  If you haven't seen what he can do with cakes, take a look at a few of his grows, and have a paper towel ready to wipe away the drool, lol.

 

Chim, those cakes are looking incredible!  


  • Arathu and ChimX like this

#13 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,201 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:39 PM

Bah! Cakes suck! Hahahahahahahahaha............................sorry................... :biggrin:

 

Look how the cakes are bluing from pumping out those fruits.........there ain't gonna be any water left there at all..................What an amazing organism.

 

Very nice work Chim.............cakes fucking RULE!

 

There I said it!

 

A


  • fahtster, MLBjammer, ChimX and 1 other like this

#14 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:40 PM

Look how the cakes are bluing from pumping out those fruits.........there ain't gonna be any water left there at all.


I'm glad you brought it up Arathu, you've got a keen eye. That's exactly what that is. As soon as the top pins started to mature, the upper quarter of both cakes turned a deep blue. Both cakes have also lost 2 centimeters in height and perhaps 2.5 in diameter. They're literally sucking the cakes dry. I'm intentionally over misting and then fanning for 2-3 minutes, and still only see more pins.

My concern is by the second flush I'll have pancakes as opposed to cakes...

I usally only dunk for 12 hours for the second flush, but I'm thinking about another full 24. I'm completely open to suggestions on the matter...

20170310_131036.jpg
20170310_130936.jpg
20170310_130925.jpg
20170310_130913.jpg
20170310_130838.jpg
20170310_130827.jpg
20170310_130628.jpg
20170310_130628.jpg
20170310_130611.jpg

The other 4 cakes incoculated 48 hours after the first 2, are picking up speed:

20170310_131024.jpg 20170310_131018.jpg

A quick question for anyone who wants to chime in: If the cakes are entirely emaciated by the 2nd or 3rd flush, would the mycelium benefit from being crumbled and spawned to bulk? Is the mycelium at that point still strong enough and simply needing more nutrients? Or has it spent too much of its strength devouring the cakes? Perhaps a retirement home in the garden?

Thanks to everyone who's followed and posted on this thread. Fahtster, MLBJammer, Arathu, Catattack, and Sidestreet, the cakes are personally thanking you.

Metta
-ChimX
  • fahtster and Arathu like this

#15 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,201 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:56 PM

Hey...looking at those clusters I'd try one at least. But if you're in a nice warm environment the outside retirement communities do amazing things. An idea that pops to mind....Take a post hole digger (or what ever round tool/pipe) and pop a hole in the ground in a nice shady secluded spot. Mix up a HPOO (pasteurized bovine or horse manure of some kind/ verm sub to field capacity moisture) put a layer in the bottom of the hole, put the cake in the center and fill the rest with the substrate, nice and fluffy and cover with a layer of grasses and keep wet (not flooded). I was always amazed at just how far a "spent" mycelium would run and just keep going. It has to be what's going on in the pastures, at least in my current view.

 

In my mind the fungi fruits because it senses that it has run out of food and other conditions needed to grow..........it says "I have to reproduce before I die" Then we intervene, and it winds up in hole with more food water and conditions. Many times they take right off again.

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 10 March 2017 - 07:57 PM.

  • ChimX likes this

#16 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,201 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:59 PM

It's certainly not like you have a "failed grow"....................... this is AWESOME actually.................. :biggrin:

 

A


  • ChimX and tailsmcsnails like this

#17 CatsAndBats

CatsAndBats

    [^._.^]ノ彡 & /|\( ;,;)/|\

  • OG VIP
  • 8,468 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:10 PM

Give me those kitties!
  • ChimX and tailsmcsnails like this

#18 ChimX

ChimX

    Spiritual Forager

  • Free Member
  • 193 posts

Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:59 PM

put a layer in the bottom of the hole, put the cake in the center and fill the rest with the substrate, nice and fluffy and cover with a layer of grasses and keep wet (not flooded)

You're right, I wont do anything drastic until taking measurements after the second dunk, but your quote sounds pretty good if they turn into pancakes. Can I christen it 'Sunset Myco Hills - Southside'? Haha...Maybe it'll rub some magic off on it.

Give me those kitties!

LoL Cat!

Metta
-ChimX

Edited by ChimX, 10 March 2017 - 10:00 PM.

  • Arathu likes this

#19 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,201 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:07 PM

 

put a layer in the bottom of the hole, put the cake in the center and fill the rest with the substrate, nice and fluffy and cover with a layer of grasses and keep wet (not flooded)

You're right, I wont do anything drastic until taking measurements after the second dunk, but your quote sounds pretty good if they turn into pancakes. Can I christen it 'Sunset Myco Hills - Southside'? Haha...Maybe it'll rub some magic off on it.

Give me those kitties!

LoL Cat!

Metta
-ChimX

 

Absolutely.........I transfer some of the magic of Sunset-Myco-Hills to the South side................... :hug:

"Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared." Buddha

 

Don't hesitate to deliberately make cakes or even blocks in PP5 containers just for that. Once the retirement community turned out to be a good thing, then doing it deliberately (outdoor grow) worked even better....................

IME Mother makes way meatier fruits than any of us silly humans. In many cases the same strains don't even look alike compared between indoor to outdoor growing.............you can see that in the retirement thread too. Those are all B+ from the same plate of agar..................

 

Oh yeah..........good vibes to my brothers and sisters in the South...................

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 11 March 2017 - 07:10 PM.

  • ChimX likes this

#20 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,670 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:05 PM





Look how the cakes are bluing from pumping out those fruits.........there ain't gonna be any water left there at all.

I'm glad you brought it up Arathu, you've got a keen eye. That's exactly what that is. As soon as the top pins started to mature, the upper quarter of both cakes turned a deep blue. Both cakes have also lost 2 centimeters in height and perhaps 2.5 in diameter. They're literally sucking the cakes dry. I'm intentionally over misting and then fanning for 2-3 minutes, and still only see more pins.
My concern is by the second flush I'll have pancakes as opposed to cakes...
I usally only dunk for 12 hours for the second flush, but I'm thinking about another full 24. I'm completely open to suggestions on the matter...
attachicon.gif20170310_131036.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130936.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130925.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130913.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130838.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130827.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130628.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130628.jpg
attachicon.gif20170310_130611.jpg
The other 4 cakes incoculated 48 hours after the first 2, are picking up speed:
attachicon.gif20170310_131024.jpgattachicon.gif20170310_131018.jpg
A quick question for anyone who wants to chime in: If the cakes are entirely emaciated by the 2nd or 3rd flush, would the mycelium benefit from being crumbled and spawned to bulk? Is the mycelium at that point still strong enough and simply needing more nutrients? Or has it spent too much of its strength devouring the cakes? Perhaps a retirement home in the garden?
Thanks to everyone who's followed and posted on this thread. Fahtster, MLBJammer, Arathu, Catattack, and Sidestreet, the cakes are personally thanking you.
Metta
-ChimX
Very nice, ChimX! One thing you can do to keep the cakes from getting completely drained from the fruits is add a thick top layer of verm that way you can slowly water as the fruits need it... this keeps the cakes hydrated and helps them fend off contaminates between flushes.

30F603F7-EF9D-4094-A1B3-337E372FBC8D-2605-000003F288062795_tmp.png

Those are 24 1/2 pints (double stacked) of PE. Again, your cakes look great, just showing you what casing them can look like. :)

Faht
  • MLBjammer, Arathu, ChimX and 1 other like this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!