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#1 mate0x

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:35 PM

Hey everyone, been a while :) I know KCMO has a killer COB thread he's been working on, and I didn't want to clutter up his thread. That thread is a treasure trove of good information, and some grower skill.

 

I am gearing up to get a 4x4 going and I am still extremely disappointed in off the shelf LED offerings. This frustration is leading me down the DIY path.

 

This thread will be about that journey.

 

So, to be honest - my interest in COB is not very high. They do well, plenty of people are using them with great results- but the efficiency is not that great, and they act like a single point light source. Passive heat sinks need to be huge, and even active heat sinks tend to be pretty bulky.

 

My intuition tells me the high power single diode approach has still not been mastered - and they become cumbersome projects for the DIY crowd. You have complete control of the photon spread, and the photon density can be equally high as a COB with equal or better efficiency.

 

Also, there is a new hybrid approach in the game. The proprietary name is "Quantum Boards".  https://horticulture.../quantum-boards

 

These are basically a compromise from the ease of DIY of a COB, but photo distribution similar to a more traditional "blurple" panel approach.

DSC_0515.jpg

 

 

Unfortunately these are out of stock right now, and apparently when they come back in stock the LEDs will be from a higher BIN... lower forward voltage with a higher output.... combining to provide a 10% efficiency boost (4% from lower voltage, 6% from better output). I am sure these will also sell out quickly and be out of stock again.

 

Unless I can get a hold of some of these QBs, the plan will be to design a more traditional panel. Even if I do get some QBs I would want to add additional 660, 730, and maybe even 840 diodes - because flowering plants love these.

 

Any who, just wanted to say hi to everyone and get something started. I bought some cheapo panels for veg lighting while I get rolling.

 

 

 

 


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#2 mate0x

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

Just wanted to drop this here for now:

 

http://www.cree.com/...renceDesign.pdf


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#3 mate0x

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

Pre-fab DIY style cob setup:  http://timbergrowlig...-4x4-framework/

 

 

They have DIY kits too, takes some of the grunt work out of it.


Edited by mate0x, 08 March 2017 - 03:18 PM.

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#4 Hash_Man

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 04:33 PM

[Direct Link]


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#5 mate0x

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:44 PM

Rapid LED has some nice enclosures/heat sinks. On the small side, but nice prefabricated stuff. 

 

http://www.rapidled.com/heatsinks/

 

Might be a good starting point for me, so I don't have to deal with tapping a heat sink.


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#6 mate0x

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:50 PM

The latest (high cost) COBs are most efficient at lumen/watt. No doubt about that. I am believe they would work best when paired with additional discrete high power LEDs.

 

Blue and Red 3watt chips are not as efficient at producing photons, but they product a very specific spectrum, which I believe compensates for their deficiency.

 

Instead of putting 600watts into a full COB lighting system, I think it would be beneficial to divert 100-150 watts of that power to a Blue/Red circuit.

 

This would improve overall light spread. The difference in efficiency would be made up for by having more point sources of light.

This would improve overall spectrum coverage. The photosynthetic efficiency of plants is higher in the blue and red spectrums.

This allows you to add UVa/b and IR spectrum also. (380,400,730,840)

 

I am going to move forward on these assumptions.


Edited by mate0x, 08 March 2017 - 11:52 PM.

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#7 mate0x

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:40 AM

Discrete Diodes:

 

http://www.cree.com/...g/XLampXPE2.pdf

http://www.cree.com/...ning/dsXPG3.pdf

http://www.cree.com/...g/ds--XHP35.pdf <<Check this one out

 

COBs:

http://www.cree.com/.../ds-CXA3590.pdf



#8 mate0x

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:04 PM

Source for DIY frame parts

 

https://www.8020.net/

 

 

Old data, but good reading:  https://mattgadient....590-vs-cxb3070/


Edited by mate0x, 17 March 2017 - 11:33 PM.


#9 mate0x

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 01:44 AM

Decided on Cree COBs, Mean Well drivers, Angled Aluminum Frame. Really just copying what is already out there today.

 

Will tackle adding discrete diodes as we go.

 

18 guage wire:   30 with shipping (I ordered like 50 feet, because I use it for other stuff.)
 
12 LED setup:   795 with shipping. Chose the holders and reflectors on the COB details page.
 
3 Drivers: 163.56 with shipping
 
Assorted bits on Amazon: 32 bucks

Probably 50-60 bucks of aluminum.

 

Grand total:   1080 ish?


Edited by mate0x, 18 March 2017 - 01:45 AM.

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#10 mate0x

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:17 PM

Don't forget a thermal compound between the COB and the heat sink... I almost did.

 

Using these:

 

PS - I know I'm linking a lot of specific products, I have no affiliation with these guys. Paying for everything out of pocket.


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#11 Hash_Man

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:58 PM

I'm glad you going COB's bro, when you said 'Cree' somehow I knew you were going with the 3590's lol.
But didn't geuss the 3500k but that's what I try to get if their avaliable (great price btw) I'm asuming your running 4 COB's @ 1400mA they should run pretty efficient but you knew that already.

I installed one holder but was such a pain (for me) I just use Kapton tape and soidlered the wires on for ease.
Maybe if you haven't read there is a little skill to Appling the thermo paste (to get it real thin) but that be like student telling the teacher : )

Edit: just saw your using thermo pads, strike my last remark.

Good luck Mate

Edited by Hash_Man, 18 March 2017 - 10:09 PM.

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#12 mate0x

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:14 PM

Yes, I paired the drivers to utilize all of their current.  The 185H-1400B pairs perfectly with 4x 3590 and has dimming capability.

 

The Cree 3000 lacks blue IMO. I thought 3500k was a good compromise. I plan to use this for late veg and flower.

 

I see people who use dedicated flowering setups that run the 3000k just fine.

 

I still plan on adding another driver or two for some discrete diodes.


Edited by mate0x, 18 March 2017 - 10:17 PM.

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#13 Heirloom

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:47 AM

Wow mate you have put a lot into this. I can't wait to see the grow and harvest.

#14 mate0x

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:04 AM

Everything should be here Saturday (or sooner) and Sunday it is going to rain.... should be a fun day :D


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#15 mate0x

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 08:44 AM

20170325_094109.jpg


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#16 morvis

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

Nice. Those are some big heat sinks.  Looks like a good time head.


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#17 Hash_Man

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:48 PM

Cool Mate . . Damn 12? CXB3590's!
this is not a hack job

.

Edited by Hash_Man, 25 March 2017 - 02:58 PM.


#18 mate0x

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:57 PM

ya mon'

 

600w of cxb3590 in a 4x4

 

Toying with the idea of making one rigid unit, or 3 modular ones.


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#19 mate0x

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

20170325_193020.jpg 20170325_193034.jpg

 

20170325_215828.jpg 20170325_215849.jpg


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#20 Heirloom

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:06 PM

mate how long do you estimate these will run for 15 or 20 years?




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