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Low blood sugar from fasting caused a terrible experience on 2 G's


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#1 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:48 PM

This isn't really a trip report as more of a question with some background. Recently after 5 plus years from having any psychedelic experiences I got a tribal urge to experiment with mycology and needless to say was mildy successful. Me and my brother decided we would sample the fruits of my labor. We both took 2 powdered grams at 7am in the morning, I haven't eaten since 5pm the previous day neither has my brother. I woke up drove to my brothers and took them on a completely empty stomach with maybe 4 sips of orange juice. At first I was having an excellent time but after about 2 hours into the experience I got a slight stomach discomfort and just shook it off but shortly after it progressed. I started to sweat and feel like I was going to pass out, so I start walking around the house and that's when it got worse I would get dizzy and have to hold on to the counter and was really confused and lethargic. I remember I haven't eaten all day and my brother says I look green and ask if I'm okay I just tell him I'm not feeling well and I feel like a might puke but it was way worse than that. I was sweating and feeling hot and freezing at the same time. This anomaly lasted maybe 15 minutes before my brothers girlfriend mentions I should eat something to maybe feel better. I fumble through there cabinet and find little Debbie fudge rounds and slowly start eating little bits while slurping water. I finished and felt a tiny bit better and go sit on the couch it wasn't 10 minutes and the sensations were bad I trudged back into the cabinet and started eating another fudge round and finish another bottle of water and continue to stand cause the sensations were alot less severe when I was standing. About 10 minutes after I ate the second fudge round I was feeling a thousand times better and could finally enjoy this light dose. So my main question is that am I correct in assuming that since I fasted for nearly 15 hours, and usually never do this is that my body was very low on blood sugar and I was going into some sort of hypoglycemic shock? This experience really did kinda scare me at first but now I'm determined to get some feedback on this so I can have a stressfree experience. Just wondering if people have had bad experience on low doses from fasting for an extended period of time. And next time I try my hand at having an experience I plan on eating 2 hours before something like a light sandwich and fruit, and make sure I have a sugary drink on hand and some chocolate. Thanks in advance

Edited by Dabsoutforharambe, 14 March 2017 - 10:50 PM.

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#2 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:52 PM

Also the dose was of cubensis, and I took maybe 4 or 5 tiny dabs throughout the experience if that makes a difference. But I'm a regular head so I don't really factor that into the experience.

#3 TyPi

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:07 PM

Here is part of the reason why you may have had such a strong trip.

The hydrochloric acid in your stomach was so strong that the tryptomines grew amine tails once they hit the acid, and therefor the trytomines had an easier time crossing over from your duodenum and small intestines into your blood stream and off to your blood brain barrier.



#4 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:18 PM

Here is part of the reason why you may have had such a strong trip.
The hydrochloric acid in your stomach was so strong that the tryptomines grew amine tails once they hit the acid, and therefor the trytomines had an easier time crossing over from your duodenum and small intestines into your blood stream and off to your blood brain barrier.

So are you implying that since I only had a few sips of orange juice is why I had a bad experience? It most definitely wasn't a strong trip, I was just having severe symptoms to having fasted 14+ hours and having low blood sugar. Or that's my reasoning behind it. Or are you implying since I didn't eat I had more hydrochloric acid in my stomach that morning and thats what cause that shitty experience. I'm confused as to what your trying to convey

#5 Arathu

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:30 PM

Another possibility here............at least in my view and IME, becoming hyper aware as a result of ingesting the mushrooms, bringing into direct waking consciousness the normally suppressed "awareness" of the gut and other subsystems of the body........might just be what you experienced............ just babbling out loud. Normally all we get as messages from the gut (or all we allow ourselves to hear) is the familiar I'm hungry, or full, or uncomfortable/nauseous , and etc............fasting alone produces many of the symptoms you describe........amplifying the sensations might explain it. Blood sugar levels might too.....maybe they are the same things.

 

I know that potent cannabis will sometimes do this to me, very similar to as you describe it except I get uncontrolled chills that requires blankets and hot tea, then FOOD................ :biggrin: Visions usually accompany that.....medicine men say it is the spirit of the mushroom/plant telling us not to play with the sacred. Ultimately, IMHO, it will come down to your physical (and possibly other) relationship with them. 

 

This is also what I've heard others describe as an "irritating" dose between "threshold" and "getting there"...........subjective for sure. Other possibilities may be some subconscious emergence, worry, emotions, and etc........sounds almost like an anxiety attack too................do you normally fast and then trip? Is this the first time your system has experienced this combination and resultant state of awareness? Again I'm thinking out loud.....     

 

Amateur biochemistry experimentalism.................what fun!

 

Regardless I wish you well, pleasant experiences as much as possible, learning from the unpleasant, and good health overall..........

 

A   


Edited by Arathu, 15 March 2017 - 03:35 PM.

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#6 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:16 PM

Another possibility here............at least in my view and IME, becoming hyper aware as a result of ingesting the mushrooms, bringing into direct waking consciousness the normally suppressed "awareness" of the gut and other subsystems of the body........might just be what you experienced............ just babbling out loud. Normally all we get as messages from the gut (or all we allow ourselves to hear) is the familiar I'm hungry, or full, or uncomfortable/nauseous , and etc............fasting alone produces many of the symptoms you describe........amplifying the sensations might explain it. Blood sugar levels might too.....maybe they are the same things.

I know that potent cannabis will sometimes do this to me, very similar to as you describe it except I get uncontrolled chills that requires blankets and hot tea, then FOOD................ :biggrin: Visions usually accompany that.....medicine men say it is the spirit of the mushroom/plant telling us not to play with the sacred. Ultimately, IMHO, it will come down to your physical (and possibly other) relationship with them.

This is also what I've heard others describe as an "irritating" dose between "threshold" and "getting there"...........subjective for sure. Other possibilities may be some subconscious emergence, worry, emotions, and etc........sounds almost like an anxiety attack too................do you normally fast and then trip? Is this the first time your system has experienced this combination and resultant state of awareness? Again I'm thinking out loud.....

Amateur biochemistry experimentalism.................what fun!

Regardless I wish you well, pleasant experiences as much as possible, learning from the unpleasant, and good health overall..........

A

It's been 5 plus years since I've had any psychedelic experience, I regularly ingest potent cannabis and cannabis extracts.

And the setting was definitely wrong which definitely contributed to the shit storm. And all the times I remember having experiences in my youth I remember it being a normal day I never fasted and consider this to be a very ignorant thing to tell new people who might have undiscovered blood sugar problems.

Yes at one point i could have described as feeling would be close to a panic attack, but I believe I felt this way to a reduction of my blood sugar, fasting for 14 hours which I never do, bad setting, and poor judgment. I would also like to add that I have felt this way (minus the psy experience) a few times after smoking cannabis and not eaten or drank much water that day, but after laying down drinking some water and having a light snack felt almost 100 percent better.

And I'm still not sure what happened just trying to get some information so my next experience will be pleasurable. What is a good dose of cubes that i should try? I don't want another experience like that to drive me away from the sacred teachers. I also plan to have my next experience on a low dose, at my house, by myself, after about 2 hours after dinner so I have a good balance of nutrients for my body as it goes through the experience. Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Dabsoutforharambe, 15 March 2017 - 05:28 PM.

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#7 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:38 PM

Really just wondering people's views on fasting before an experience, vs having a meal a few hours before to maintain a balanced nutrient level. And if some of you tried fasting and it wasn't for you and having a small meal a couple hours before was optimal for you.
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#8 ChimX

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:36 PM

I believe that fasting before a ceremony, is not only uncomfortable, but dangerous, especially as we get older. Unless you're some hermetic guru that's been living off a single tea leaf daily diet for the last 20 years, the sudden cessation of nutrient intake can cause serious chemical imbalances. Why anyone would think that's a wise idea before a ritual is beyond me. I also agree with Arathu. Becoming hyper aware of dangerously low blood sugar levels could exasperate the situation through stress and ncreased heart rate, expending more energy than the person can replenish.

I've attended ceremonies of different denominations and faiths for a very long time down here (Yage, Wachuma, Peyote), and not a single one has ever suggested either fasting or even a special diet. The only place I've ever heard of that implements fasting is a 'new age' group in Iquitos (Peru) run by foreigners. That's the same place that charges people 6,500$ USD for a week long retreat. I'd feel safer in a sweat lodge with James Arthur Ray than following their advice.

I'm not suggesting that you gorge yourself on three large pizzas with all the toppings immediately beforehand, but that's for the simple reason that tossing up that much pizza would probably be unpleasant and time consuming.

Yage is a purgative. It's even called 'La Purga' down here. If a person is fasting, it's awfully difficult to purge and probably dangerous. The purge is a blessing. Indigenous tribes believe that it's drawing out toxins from the body, along with negative feelings and energies. Peyote and Wachuma have the same purgative effect. Even Maria Sabina (Mushroom Curandeira), would vomit for her patient if the person couldn't do so themselves.

In short, Fasting before a ceremony is counterproductive on more levels than one.

If you want to have a ceremony, God speed. If you want to fast, do this separately and avoid ceremonies altogether.

The only combination one should be concerned with Ayahuasca are SSRI's (the most common anti-depressants on the market today). This can lead to a dangerous and potentially fatal condition called TSS (Toxic Seratonin Syndrome). MAOI's and SSRI's make dangerous bedfellows.

I hope this helps. Eat well and gain your strength before your next journey. It will help you to endure the trials of the trails.

Metta
-ChimX

Edited by ChimX, 16 March 2017 - 02:41 PM.

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#9 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:19 PM

I believe that fasting before a ceremony, is not only uncomfortable, but dangerous, especially as we get older. Unless you're some hermetic guru that's been living off a single tea leaf daily diet for the last 20 years, the sudden cessation of nutrient intake can cause serious chemical imbalances. Why anyone would think that's a wise idea before a ritual is beyond me. I also agree with Arathu. Becoming hyper aware of dangerously low blood sugar levels could exasperate the situation through stress and ncreased heart rate, expending more energy than the person can replenish.
I've attended ceremonies of different denominations and faiths for a very long time down here (Yage, Wachuma, Peyote), and not a single one has ever suggested either fasting or even a special diet. The only place I've ever heard of that implements fasting is a 'new age' group in Iquitos (Peru) run by foreigners. That's the same place that charges people 6,500$ USD for a week long retreat. I'd feel safer in a sweat lodge with James Arthur Ray than following their advice.
I'm not suggesting that you gorge yourself on three large pizzas with all the toppings immediately beforehand, but that's for the simple reason that tossing up that much pizza would probably be unpleasant and time consuming.
Yage is a purgative. It's even called 'La Purga' down here. If a person is fasting, it's awfully difficult to purge and probably dangerous. The purge is a blessing. Indigenous tribes believe that it's drawing out toxins from the body, along with negative feelings and energies. Peyote and Wachuma have the same purgative effect. Even Maria Sabina (Mushroom Curandeira), would vomit for her patient if the person couldn't do so themselves.
In short, Fasting before a ceremony is counterproductive on more levels than one.
If you want to have a ceremony, God speed. If you want to fast, do this separately and avoid ceremonies altogether.
The only combination one should be concerned with Ayahuasca are SSRI's (the most common anti-depressants on the market today). This can lead to a dangerous and potentially fatal condition called TSS (Toxic Seratonin Syndrome). MAOI's and SSRI's make dangerous bedfellows.
I hope this helps. Eat well and gain your strength before your next journey. It will help you to endure the trials of the trails.
Metta
-ChimX

Been eating more fruits and healthier since that experience and drinking more water, I plan on trying again this weekend. But instead of in the morning at my brothers house, I plan to start my experience 2 hours after a clean dinner and at my house alone this time. I also plan on just trying a gram this time cause how shook I am from this last experience. (I was thinking my body was rejecting the experience and making me sick and that I might never be able to take them without having a shit time) but I'm determined to plan correctly this time, have enough nutrients in my body, and make sure I'm well hydrated. I also plan to have 2 teaspoons of honey with my dose and a sugary soda just after dosing so I have some quick uptake glucose and some slow release glucose for the whole experience as well. Along with a way better setting by myself, and a new found respect for my body.
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#10 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

What's everybody's experience with this half in half out dose? Around the 1.5 to 2 grams mark

#11 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:59 PM

Here is part of the reason why you may have had such a strong trip.

The hydrochloric acid in your stomach was so strong that the tryptomines grew amine tails once they hit the acid, and therefor the trytomines had an easier time crossing over from your duodenum and small intestines into your blood stream and off to your blood brain barrier.

 

Got anything besides speculation to back that up?

 

 

FWIW, the lime-juice pre soak that I advocate for ingesting mushrooms has around the same pH as stomach acid (esp. if using Key limes) and does make the trip come on faster and more "all at once" thanks to something similar to what you wrote, i.e. (based on my research) the soak dephosphorylates the psilocybin to psilocin in vitro and allows the now active form of the drug to pass into the bloodstream basically all at once (and thereby into our brains much faster, too). Trips taken that way have shorter durations but higher peaks, and unless I need to store my fungi in honey the juice soak is by far my preferred method of ingestion (no body load, cleaner/crisper visuals, shorter time).

 

 

 

 

Anyway, what you (Dabs) described doesn't sound like a sugar crash to me so much as acute dehydration. I may be wrong, but that's what it sounded like to me and the symptoms you listed are the same ones I've had when I've let myself get too dehydrated.

 

FWIW, I've fasted over 24 hours before 7+ gram trips with no ill effects (just way more intense peaks and a voracious appetite as they were wearing off). The worst blood sugar issues I or anyone else I've tripped with has experienced were limited to a tight, squinty feeling behind the eyeballs and a growing desire for it to END and let us go to sleep that starts to creep in after the peak as the effects wear off. It's easily and almost instantly rectified with a spoon full of honey (the good stuff, not the cheap crap and obviously not the fungi-infused kind!) and chugging a bunch of water.

 

I've also fasted for 4 days (without tripping) and suffered no ill effects, but I'd been preparing for it for a month or so ahead of time (fasting 24 hours one day per week for a month leading up to it, minimizing consumption of crap like refined sugar and alcohol and such for that month, and doing a sweat to purge as many toxins as possible beforehand), brought 5 gallons of water with me, and knew how to break it properly (it was for a traditional Vision Quest, incidentally).

 

Fasting before tripping is one of those "different strokes/your mileage may vary" kind of things, but the science behind fasting is fascinating and when done right it's quite beneficial for most people, both in terms of cognitive abilities and reduction of inflammation in the body (not to mention elimination of some stored toxins we've collected along the way).

 

Some interesting reading:

 

https://www.brainsca...or-brain-power/

 

http://www.collectiv...-wont-study-it/

 

 

And from our friends at Johns Hopkins (friends because they do magic mushroom studies!):

 

According to research conducted by neuroscientist Mark Mattson and others, cutting your energy intake by fasting several days a week might help your brain ward off neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s while at the same time improving memory and mood.

 

From: http://www.johnshopk...fits-to-fasting


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#12 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

What's everybody's experience with this half in half out dose? Around the 1.5 to 2 grams mark

 

2g is about the max I'd take for a low-dose experience.

 

For a high-dose/visionary experience I don't consume less than 5 grams anymore and my sweet spot is ~6g.

 

IME the range between ~2g and ~5g (again, YMMV) is what I've taken to calling the "no man's land" of dosages where the most difficult experiences generally seem to occur. I'm just speculating but I suspect that it's because at those levels the dose is high enough to make our Ego start to have an existential crisis about itself (e.g. begins to fight for it's "survival" and to regain "control" over what's happening to it) but not high enough to kick its ass to the curb and get it completely out of the way of the trip. So IMO the rough trips found in that range are a function of the tension caused by our minds being simultaneously pulled "up" towards Cosmic consciousness or whatever you like to call 'it' while our not-quite-obliterated egos are desperately trying to pull us back "down" to "normal" consensus-reality.

 

 

The above does not take into account the presence of other relevant factors such as regularly taking SSRIs (e.g. Prozac), taking the fungi with a tryptamine potentiator (e.g. MAOIs), or as part of a combination with other drugs ("hippieflipping").

 

Always do your homework about everything you intend to ingest, as well as anything else that you may be ingesting with it and any possible side-effects of their potential interactions (for example, if you take a prescription SSRI, it might be best to not try to boost the potency of your fungi with an MAOI since that could end badly).


Edited by TVCasualty, 16 March 2017 - 06:16 PM.

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#13 Neptunechild

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:46 PM

I ate a hot dog once with 4g cubensis inside. I actually ate mushrooms a lot in my meals, never had a bad experience.

I find all this stories and theories very fascinating because I never felt anything of it.

 

I did fast a couple of tmes before DMT & LSD & Mushrooms, the only difference that I felt was that it hit in faster and I was very hungry the entire trip.


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#14 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 02:17 AM

Well coming back to report excellent news i tried my hand at another experience today, I was well hydrated, had a light meal 2 hours before and ate plenty of sugar to carry me through. Very mellow 1 gram experience, next time I plan on making a tea of 2.5 and see where I am then. I'm so glad I can enjoy this wonderful fungal medicine. Thanks for all the replies guys
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#15 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:11 PM

I always eat a very small meal the night before a vision quest, and something like an orange and granola and raisins just before. And ALWAYS have lots of water on hand, especially if you are eating dry sacraments. There is going to be body load unless you go the lemon/lime tea route.

Body load after fasting sounds very uncomfortable.
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#16 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:41 PM

I always eat a very small meal the night before a vision quest, and something like an orange and granola and raisins just before. And ALWAYS have lots of water on hand, especially if you are eating dry sacraments. There is going to be body load unless you go the lemon/lime tea route.
Body load after fasting sounds very uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable would be an understatement, felt like I could never enjoy these things again but I know the error of my ways now. Light meals aways before an experience and make a tea to virtually kill the body load. Oh and sugary sweets right after dosing cause they taste good and help my blood sugar overall.

#17 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:51 PM

Oh yes! My preference is frozen gummy bears!
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#18 Dabsoutforharambe

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:42 PM

Oh yes! My preference is frozen gummy bears!


Never have I ever heard of such a thing hahaha, I know what I'll be trying next weekend




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