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Do Psychedelics Carry a Heart Risk?


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#1 Heirloom

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:48 PM

Do Psychedelics Carry a Heart Risk?

http://thethirdwave....ics-heart-risk/

I got this in my email from the Third Wave today. The full article can be
found at the above link.

I found it interesting but don't think that psychedelics pose a concern. I could see the government using this as propaganda.

This might be of interest for a person with heart problems though.



MDMA and Heart Risk


One thing that’s particularly worrying is the risk of heart disease. MDMA has been the centre of attention in this respect – various studies have shown that there is a link between regular, high-dose MDMA use and heart defects. Although the conclusion of this research is that the occasional dose of MDMA will not harm you, it has worrying implications for long-term psychedelic use, including microdosing.



LSD and psilocybin work by mimicking the effect of our natural neurotransmitter, serotonin. Therefore both these psychedelics activate a wide range of serotonin receptors, including the 5-HT2B receptor. The real question is, are these psychedelics activating the 5-HT2B receptors on our hearts?

Unfortunately, we don’t have an answer to that question. We know that LSD and psilocybin activate the 5-HT2B receptor, but we don’t know if they specifically activate 5-HT2B in the heart. For now, it’s best to assume that psychedelics are activating the 5-HT2B receptors in our hearts, until we have evidence otherwise.

#2 pharmer

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:58 AM

I'd guess blood pressure issues would be of concern with speedy drugs, especially at higher doses.

 

Someone on blood pressure meds would do well to research interactions of their BP meds and strong stims like MDMA

 

I don't know for a fact that there are known interactions( of psychs and BP meds) but simple and seemingly innocuous things like ginseng will bump BP up even if one is taking his BP meds as prescribed. It seems reasonable to assume BP would jump with a strong stim.

 

Maybe anxiety and/or panicky feelings from being unfamiliar with the mindfucking effects of acid would have similar BP effects???


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#3 dead_diver

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:57 AM

Many psychedelics are vasoconstrictors. The potential for heart problems exist with any vasoconstrictor.

#4 Alder Logs

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:01 AM

Such concerns came to mind when at age 65 the possibility of access to DMT arose for the first time.  It looked to me like having a chance to be shot into orbit without astronaut training, or even the physical exam.  I asked a young experiencer from here who visited me at the time if he would advise my taking the launch under these conditions and he thought and said that perhaps I should not.  I had a long history of irregular heartbeat and two parents, both with considerable heart issues.  Since just over two years, there is little motivation to trip, as the work I was doing with mushrooms seemed to be answered and the life experience seems as if in the afterglow of a deep psychedelic vision, or as if one could imagin a kind of Mona Lisa smile in the heart, or what my cat was feeling here:

 

gallery_131808_1351_89793.jpg


Edited by Alder Logs, 19 March 2017 - 11:16 AM.

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#5 Heirloom

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 02:52 PM

I like the post's, honest and to the point of heart concerns.

I would think that we would know by now if psychedelics caused heart problems.

I have an irregular heart beat , AT?

I do not associate my irregular heart beat with my acid and mushroom use.

I think it would be nice to take a poll, however it would not be accurate because of genetics and environmental factors, like diet , smoking, and so on.

I can see some people being scared to death on psychedelics , set & setting.
Maybe why I never tried smoking DMT.

I want to try real MDMA but have not been so lucky.

#6 darci

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:45 PM

Cue the "death by astonishment" quote from Terence.


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#7 CatsAndBats

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:33 AM

My guess is that MDMA is the biggest candidate for causing heart problems as it is an amphetamine.


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#8 panaho

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 05:20 PM

Amphetamine is amphetamine . Alpha methyl phenyl ethyl amine.  Of course there are tons of variants of the compound .


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#9 riseabovethought

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 12:32 PM

Not more than over-eating.  Psychedelics are among the safest drugs ever studied, to the great surprise of most scientists who've studied them, but life itself is a heart risk, being the most likely way we will die.  And half of heart attacks will kill the person who never had any warning sign.  Stress is the primary reason agreed upon.  Cardio protective efforts lead to 'preventive medicine,' which is basically cardio exercise 20 minutes minimum, 3-5 times per week, and replacing refined carbohydrates (flour and sugar) with more veggies (but stepping on flour and sugar is sooo profitable).  

 

If psychedelics reduce stress in any meaningful way (and I believe quite firmly they do), then their benefits outweigh their risk.  But I am only working on a theory that it isnt a deficient nutrient that gets us sick, but rather a deficiency in nutrient density.  Too much energy wasted on digestion of empty calories means excessive unnecessary work for the heart.  What you want is energy efficiency via easily digestible real food such as veggies, mushrooms, and lean meat.  https://mycotopia.ne...at-more-plants/  

 

One reason people are hungry even when they just ate, is because they didnt get the nutrients their body wanted which was why they were hungry.  Instead they just fed their face because they were taught that if it was edible, eat it, and that the stomach just needs to be full of something, anything.  Longer shelf life is good!  Right?  Wrong, if we're going to eat it and call it food.  But the food companies probably know better, like the cigarette companies did.  We can trust them.  


Edited by riseabovethought, 28 March 2017 - 01:02 PM.

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#10 Heirloom

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 02:17 PM

rise , nice response. I believe psychedelics are not only safe but beneficial. Though some
chemicals might pose a problem for certain individuals. I think mushrooms and LSD are safe.

I believe the article brought to mind things that needed to be explored to provide an answer,
that refutes the study which very well might be used in future anti - psychedelic propaganda.

This report simply brings up information that might stimulate a talk, showing how studies might be used to create propaganda.


Who does psychedelics for 90 day's in a row? Even microdising has off days.
Scientist have studied this and should of known long before now. They
gave people psychedelics for extended periods of time to study the effects.

Plus we have our own people here and all I hear is positive.

I know that LSD changes the shape of neural receptors in the brain but they go back to the original
shape by 3 days after the LSD dose.

I never really thought about receptors in the heart or outside the brain.

Now to mention that the diet drug that caused heart problems and deaths, Fen Fen - aka
Fenfluriamine also stimulates the 5-HT2B receptor as do Psychedelics, like Lsd and psilocybin.
Which led to the question do psychedelics cause heart problems.

fen fen is an artificial antagonist of the 5-HT2B receptor and this is why it is a danger.

This article does not tell us if it crosses the blood brain barrier, if it did then I would expect that people got an experience from taking this, there are no reports to say that fen fen was psychoactive.



Studies found that fenfluramine roughly doubled the risk of developing VHD after a 90-day treatment course, at a dose of around 30mg/day (Sachdev et al, 2002). Fenfluramine has an affinity (Ki) for the 5-HT2B receptor of around 30nM (Rothman & Baumann, 2009).

LSD has a similar affinity for the 5-HT2B receptor as fenfluramine, a Ki of around 30nM (Passie et al, 2008). A typical microdosing regimen involves taking much less LSD than 30mg/day (actually the equivalent of 3ug/day, several thousand times less than fenfluramine).

#11 riseabovethought

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 03:00 PM

Interesting you mention weightloss meds.  I know a heart doctor, who had a beautiful much younger wife, to whom he himself prescribed weightloss meds- speed- to speed up the metabolism.  She died of a heart attack, an all -too common side effect of weightloss meds.  He is a very smart doctor, and I feel terrible for him, but I find the irony fascinating.


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#12 panaho

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

As far as my knowledge goes or rather in my experience the only thing that happens in the physical body happens to the spirit as well and therefore , since , the two are intertwined , and , not a lot is known of the true relationship between the two ,  I would say I have only gained awareness in a positive way and have suffered no ill effects whatsoever from the use of aforesaid .



#13 Heirloom

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 06:49 PM

rise thanks , sorry for his loss, he should be aware of the danger of speed.

"Additionally, we don’t know to what extent LSD is activating the 5-HT2B receptors of the heart in comparison to fenfluramine. However, it seems reasonable to assume that microdosing has nowhere near the heart risk associated with fenfluramine.

Although there have been no long-term studies of the risk of microdosing in humans, one study gave 10ug/kg of psilocin to rats every other day, and found abnormalities in the rats’ hearts after three months. Although we can’t really compare a rat’s physiology to our s"

I got to think we would know by now, and this is a study that was started using fen -fen then
bringing LSD into the study as they have a common neural recptor.

I think there is a difference between 5-HT2B antagonist that cross the blood brain barrier and those that don't. more research is needed

I have taken plenty of LSD and mushrooms and they have not given me a heart problem and I am near 60yrs, old.
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#14 riseabovethought

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 10:09 AM

There was an elephant they killed with too much LSD.  They killed another elephant with AC current, when Edison was trying to prove that Tesla's AC current was dangerous compared to his superior DC current.  So elephants have taken a lot of heat, but I dont think anyone takes that obscene amount of either excess, and technology suppression has quickened exponentially; perhaps much of it Tesla's own work, reverse engineered by dark malevolent forces... Not to mention sky rocketing prices of life saving drugs for the worst off among us.  Its a sad time, and its a damn shame we dont recognize each other as family, but rather competition or business prospects.  Oh how far we've fallen.  

 

Maybe humanity doesnt deserve what psychedelics have to offer.  Maybe we're only ready for consciousness expansion once we've passed a certain threshold of familiarity after working with psychedelics, like developing an expertise, if you will...  What if it cannot be taken all at once, but must be taken in small increments, over time, for the body and mind and soul to be sortof awash in it, but not an excess, a balance between allowing for understanding and being open for more.  Its complicated, but its careful use can show us things otherwise unseen, things that can help us improve ourselves.  I dont think heart medicine does that, or even cardio protective efforts.  Yet, most of us will die from heart disease.  I dont see the relationship except perhaps lifestyle change quickened by psychedelics that might actually stave off an otherwise pending or potential heart attack, but that'd be a hard study to reproduce.  -Takes too much time and depends on too many factors.      


Edited by riseabovethought, 30 March 2017 - 10:12 AM.

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#15 Heirloom

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

There was a time when psychedelics were falsely linked to birth defects and mutations.This propaganda was proven to be false and the results of the 1977 Study on LSD by the Nation Institute of Mental Health
proved LSD did not cause mutations and birth defects and stated that aspirin and caffeine were more
dangerous than LSD.

I honestly believe that legalization of cannabis and psychedelics would improve society, lower medical
costs and result in a much healthier society.

We had a guy that asked for mental health treatment, he was denied and a veteran. That day he took off
his boots ,shirt and walked out into a wooded area and committed suicide by freezing himself to death.

I can't imagine the mental torture that he went threw that demanded he die by freezing.

He could of been saved and alive today had he been brought into a safe place and treated with MDMA.

MDMA may be legal by prescription soon. There was the time they said MDMA fried brains. MDMA has
passed through two phases of three tests required to make it legal for prescription.

Edited by Heirloom Spores, 30 March 2017 - 03:17 PM.


#16 OysterFarmer

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:42 PM

I'm currently recovering from congestive heart failure.  It has a fatality rate over eighty percent.  Also recovering from kidney failure and high blood pressure.  Even though I almost died I now seem to be fairly normal.   I credit a good deal of my recovery with frequent micro dosing on magics amongst other things.  I really haven't tripped hard in a couple years or more though.

 

I do find that when I take a bit too much it jumps my blood pressure up about twenty points which really isn't much more than running or jogging would do.  If you aren't at a level where you can jog or walk around well I'd probably advise against large amounts.






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