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Mikey's Psilly Ethanol Extract


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#81 Boarders

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:24 AM

How long do you now recommend soaking for Soliver? Originally it was months, then days, are we back to months?


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#82 Soliver

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:18 PM

I can't drop any real science on this, but ....

 

Extracts that sit for over a month are just - better than the ones that don't.

 

You can make an extract and it'll work the next day. 

 

That same extract will work the next month, but it will be ... fuck.  BETTER.

 

I have nothing but my own experience to back this up, so take it as you will. 

 

If you have a bunch of shrooms (like 50g+) then drop those bitches in some everclear and forget about it.

 

The stuff I'm working through now has been steeping for two months.  I have some jars set aside for next year, if that's any indicator.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#83 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 06:10 PM

First, I want to thank Coors for the awesome Tek here.

Just one quibble: it's not water that breaks down the Psilly components, but oxygen that easily dissolves in the water. Oxygen doesn't as easily dissolve in alcohol, and the alcohol preserves the actives much better even in the presence of oxygen... Hence as Solly pointed out the alcohol will slllooowwwly pull out more actives over time.

Oxygen is the enemy of our actives. Unfortunately, Psilocybin and Psilocin prefer water, it's in fact the best solvent for both of them (link here:https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Psilocybinlook for "solubility") and they are only slightly soluble in alcohols...

However, it's fairly hard to get "pure" alcohol, it absorbs moisture, as water and alcohol are highly soluble in each other. So what happens is some actives dissolve in the alcohol with the majority dissolving in entrapped water. As time goes on more water gets absorbed by the alcohol and again, more actives that are being protected by that alcohol appears in the solution.

This is why teas work, but very quickly degrade as oxygen is absorbed.

So the best possible solvent would be a deoxygenated alcohol water mix. There are two ways to do this: boil the water to remove the oxygen, unfortunately if you are using a 150 proof mix of alcohol and water (75% alcohol 25% water) you will boil away your alcohol. Not good.

The other method is to use a vacuum pump to pull the oxygen out. This will work, but is a pain in the ass.

If you see blue, that is a dye which is a byproduct of Psilocin and Psilocybin break down.

This is of course for the "purists" out there, as CoorsMikey has proven this Tek and I heh heh heh... can verify it as well...

But it gives me a reason to break out the 'ol vacuum pump. ;P

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 09 October 2018 - 06:16 PM.

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#84 Soliver

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 08:23 PM

I'd save the vacuum pump for your penis enlargement activities and make a solid effort to score some high-proof everclear.

 

It's worth crossing state lines or tapping an out-of-state friend for a favor.

 

"Bluing" can be resolved with the addition of citric acid.  I'm not a doctor, but I play one on Wikipedia, so I'm not 100% on that source.

 

All I've got is 15+ years making extracts from mushrooms. 

 

Grow mushrooms.  Put them in uber-high proof ethanol.  Let them sit in there for as long as you can stand it. 

 

In the meantime, grow more mushrooms to soak in that high-proof ethanol, and redouble your efforts to attain said high-proof ethanol.

 

While I think it's wise to keep your shrooms away from oxygen and light and air in general, the argument that oxygen destroys actives simply doesn't hold up; otherwise that bag of shrooms I found from years ago wouldn't have been any good whatsoever.  Either O2 destroys actives or is doesn't.  If it does, then shrooms should have a very short shelf life indeed. 

 

Most normal people don't have ounces of shrooms they forgot about, so this hypothesis isn't well tested, but I can assure you the shrooms I grew ten years ago will still melt your brain, and they were sitting in a ziploc snack bags.

 

I'm not really here to debate the breakdown of actives - I do extractions to avoid body load and screaming shits and 45 minutes of "oh my god what the fuck did I do and why." 

 

That said, I don't really believe any chemistry equipment is needed to create a pleasant extract.  Just shrooms and good Everclear.

 

On a side note:  I could be fuzzy on this one, but wouldn't a deoxygenated ethanol / water mix just be ethanol and hydrogen?  Not to mention the hydroxyl group in ethanol?  I'm no chemist, but if you de-oxygenate these liquids ... it'd be weird.

 

Beyond the "oxygen" hypothesis, I can for sure verify that water (with or without oxygen - however you do that) pulls the stuff from shrooms that creates unpleasantness - if you are prone to such a thing (I am), so if you can avoid lots of water, then good for you.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#85 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:46 PM

Solly, as long as the actives are trapped in the mycelium, cracker dry, the oxygen takes decades to oxydize them. They are encapsulated in the cellulose of the fruiting body.

But once extracted from the cellulose, the actives are naked and vulnerable.

When you pick a fresh mushie, it blues where you pinched it, because the cell walls burst, and the oxygen combines with them.

That's the beauty of mycelium cell walls! Air proof once dry!

With regards to "deoxgenating" the ethenol water mix ( beer is a ethenol water mix) I mean you pull a vacuum until the liquid just starts to boil, then back it off slightly. All the dissolved O2 will release from the liquid. That is "free oxygen". No chemical change.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 09 October 2018 - 09:49 PM.

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#86 Soliver

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:19 PM

"Naked and Vulnerable " pretty much describes me most Saturday nights .... so I guess I have a lot more in common with psilly than I realized.

 

Not sure I can legitimize a vacuum pump to the family ... everclear with 'medicinal herbs' floating around in there - even better - brown everclear stored in the freezer inside those 'blue ice' containers ... good stuff for decades of evenings  :)

 

soliver


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#87 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

I need to find your freezer. :tongue:


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#88 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:20 PM

Solly, you put them in these? S-18256.jpg
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#89 Soliver

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:35 PM

Yes, but the ones I prefer are made from solid blue plastic. 

 

This way, no one will accidentally ingest the contents (or if they do, they get what they deserve) and it's not a container labeled "drug extract."

 

Worst case scenario, you go to an event with enough shroom extract to dose half a stadium.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#90 Bajurf

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 04:15 AM

alcohol preserves the actives much better even in the presence of oxygen... Hence as Solly pointed out the alcohol will slllooowwwly pull out more actives over time.

Oxygen is the enemy of our actives. Unfortunately, Psilocybin and Psilocin prefer water, it's in fact the best solvent for both of them (link here:https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Psilocybinlook for "solubility") and they are only slightly soluble in alcohols...

 

So psilocin and psilocybin are very slowly drawn out of the fruit flesh by alcohol. With the intent to speed this up, how effective would the application of heat and agitation be? Considering the lower evaporation temperature for alcohols, it would, of course, need to be done in an airtight container, which isn't a problem. I imagine it's not too difficult to set up a homemade magnet stirrer to agitate the mixture either. Heat the alcohol up, drop the magnet in, pour the mushroom dust in, seal, agitate insulate and wait. What do you think Steampunk?

 

I'm also wondering if you can use non-edible alcohols for this (like isopropyl), so long as you let it all evaporate out until you're left with the "tootsie-roll". Is that safe, or no?


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#91 cg3p0

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 10:52 PM

Coorsmikey,

 

You eluded to mixing different mushroom strains, but also said this always gives a clean ride.  Ive moved on from cubes for more preferable mushrooms that dont have the load, but would you say it even makes a difference if doing this extraction?



#92 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 11:27 PM

The alkyhol extraction is very specific to what it pulls. You will lose some of the alkaloids that give you the undesirable effects but, you also lose some of what I call the spiritual ride. I'm not sure if its the Baeocystin or something else that causes the body load. Same would be said for what alkaloid that gives you that more spiritual ride. From my experience of doing extractions on Pans/Copes, there is not any noticeable difference. Ps. cyan extractions I am able to be active and mobile, but when I eat them whole, I am couch locked or just laying in the grass staring into the matrix not wanting to move. If not for the different effects, extractions are great for preservation and stealth. Chicks seem to be more inclined to drink a shot over chewing dried mushrooms too.


Edited by coorsmikey, 02 March 2019 - 10:28 AM.

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#93 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 07:16 AM

After all it's about the Chicks....man.

Personally, the way I would perform an alcohol extraction would be to use deoxygenated water (either via boiling or via vacuum) and mix it with the alcohol, in a about a ratio of 1/3 water, 2/3 alcohol or 137 proof. A month or two in that and then strain before you drink.

And I would not use denatured alcohol for anything I plan on consuming simply because I don't know what they denatured with!

#94 Cuboid

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 09:29 AM

"And I would not use denatured alcohol for anything I plan on consuming simply because I don't know what they denatured with!" - Damn right! Would never risk it.
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#95 bezevo

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 02:31 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong ,but alcohol and water both hold less dissolved oxygen at very cold temps so if you started with very cold eve clear and added your coarsely chopped cracker dry mushrooms in an Dark  Amber mason jar(to protect from light ) then back in freezer to age /  extract or start with very cold ever clear run vacuum on it after chopped  dry mushrooms added then to freezer ..over kill maybe .. 

 

This might be simple tek for home extraction to avoid derogation /  oxidation from de-solved oxygen and light ?


Edited by bezevo, 04 March 2019 - 02:40 PM.


#96 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:02 PM

Actually... Oxygen content increases inversely with temperature as this graph shows. Notice fresh water, as we would use here has higher oxygen content than salt water.

oxygen-solubility-water.png

However, if you boiled water, then put it in a mason jar and sealed it, put it in the fridge, it would be cold, and have low oxygen content. Now it could be mixed with mushrooms and ethanol.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 04 March 2019 - 06:04 PM.

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