Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Using DMT in substrate to increase ration of 4HO-DMT to 4HO-NMT


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 BioTron

BioTron

    Philocybin

  • Free Member
  • 163 posts

Posted 02 April 2017 - 06:23 PM

I know there has been talk of this before, but I cant seem to find if anyone has actually done this yet.  The idea is to add DMT to the mycellium, either in jars during colonization, or in the spawning medium, or both, to increase the production/concentration of DMT derivitives.  Primarily, to increase production of 4HO-DMT and it's esters.  The DMT would be added as one of the water soluble salts and thus would be freely available to the mycellium for conversion.  

 

According to what I could find, the mechanism of conversion from Tryptamine (T) to and active (4PO-DMT, 4HO-DMT, or the NMT analogs thereof) is still unknown, but it has been found that elevated levels of T reduces the phosphate esters (4PO-DMT, 4PO-NMT, and 4PO-T) produced but increases the levels of psilocin (4HO-DMT). Both DMT and T have this effect.

 

So, since the alkaloid content is somewhere about less than 1% normally, and I have read about a psilocin content upwards of 3% with added tryptamine to the substrate.  I wonder if adding DMT might increase this level further still.

 

From the paper:

"A dried cow dung/rice-grain mixture (2:1) with twice the amount of water was used to obtain fast fructifications without casing of a strain (3) of P. Cubensis. A 25 mM concentration of tryptamine (as hydrochloride) was added to this medium."

 

25mM of Tryptamine HCl is equivalent to: 4.9g/L

25mM of DMT Fumarate is equivalent to: 12.4g/L or would need about 9 grams freebase dmt to make into whatever salt of your choice.

 

That is an awful lot of DMT to be using, so I'm not so sure anyone has tried this before.  I guess it really depends on which of the following is the new rate limited factor for producing psilocin:

4-Hydroxylation

Methylation/Dimethelation

 

If the methylation is the more difficult part for the fungus to achieve, then the levels of psilocin should be well above 3%.

 

Noone really seems sure exactly how all of this works in order of preference or in order of limiting enzymatic action:

 

psilocybin-biosynthesis-grid.png

 

 

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

 

REF:

Planta Medica 55 (1989) page 249 - 250 Jochen Gartz 
BIOTRANSFORMATION OF TRYPTAMINE IN FRUITING MYCELIA OF PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS

Edited by BioTron, 02 April 2017 - 06:40 PM.

  • Cooper Trouper, wharfrat, johnwayne1357 and 2 others like this

#2 johnwayne1357

johnwayne1357

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:15 AM

definitley following this one, I do believe that L-tryptophan is much more redily absorbed than tryptamine but havent seen anyone use DMT yet. I would be very excited to test this if a ms/gcs  was available for quantifying results. I have read anecdotal reports from a trusted cultivator in another universe that L-tryptophan enhanced mushies were definitley stronger but this is subjective. I would venture to say that the biochemical pathways of all indole base compounds in fungi should be actively inspected.



#3 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,544 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:52 AM

I know where a patch of ovoids are, in a another universe as well, growing on a six inch thick layered bed made purely of Illinois Bundleflower stems and root balls. Ovoids growing from woody debris along the river will knock the holy begeezus out you as will ps.cyan, ps. azure, and etc. etc so one must wonder what, if anything, could be beyond that............it is an interesting set of questions IMHO. 

 

I can only dream of a social climate that would allow such science to actually be attempted and carried out. Perhaps some century it will come about.......in the mean time could such a thing explain the radical differences in potency between dung loving fungi and the woodlovers? Then what does one think of the pans? Are various grasses an intermediary step up the scale or in variance of alkaloid production? (excuse my lacking chemistry I'm much more of an experimentalist) Great questions.........please keep this discussion going...............

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 03 April 2017 - 08:57 AM.

  • johnwayne1357 and ScreamingEagle like this

#4 johnwayne1357

johnwayne1357

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 03 April 2017 - 09:47 AM

I know where a patch of ovoids are, in a another universe as well, growing on a six inch thick layered bed made purely of Illinois Bundleflower stems and root balls. Ovoids growing from woody debris along the river will knock the holy begeezus out you as will ps.cyan, ps. azure, and etc. etc so one must wonder what, if anything, could be beyond that............it is an interesting set of questions IMHO. 

 

I can only dream of a social climate that would allow such science to actually be attempted and carried out. Perhaps some century it will come about.......in the mean time could such a thing explain the radical differences in potency between dung loving fungi and the woodlovers? Then what does one think of the pans? Are various grasses an intermediary step up the scale or in variance of alkaloid production? (excuse my lacking chemistry I'm much more of an experimentalist) Great questions.........please keep this discussion going...............

 

A

I completely get what you mean i think this isnt as novel when looked at in pursuite of more potent fungi but very very interesting when looked at through a lense of speculation regarding what compounds can be "made" by fungi when given the right precursors. I think that this is what causes the wide variation in potencies and body load etc. the genetics determine pathways of synthesis and uptake and the substrate materials can provide more or less of different things that will be made into things that alter the experience imo.


Edited by johnwayne1357, 03 April 2017 - 09:50 AM.

  • Arathu likes this

#5 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,544 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:03 AM

Absolutely...........and in such a quest what else? Metamorphosis (physical, mental, spiritual), transformation (physical, mental, spiritual), additional communicative channels (physical, mental, spiritual), activation of latent genes, perhaps nothing at all, perhaps keys to evolutionary processes, and etc. etc.

 

I do know that the paranoid control freaks in this world need to be set straight and such exploration by consenting adults be left unto itself.....although on an island somewhere might be a good idea........... :biggrin: 

 

I'd go and offer my skills and work...............

 


  • johnwayne1357 likes this

#6 CatsAndBats

CatsAndBats

    this fucking guy

  • OG VIP
  • 11,231 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:06 AM

https://mycotopia.ne...ease-alkaloids/


  • Arathu and johnwayne1357 like this

#7 johnwayne1357

johnwayne1357

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

Absolutely...........and in such a quest what else? Metamorphosis (physical, mental, spiritual), transformation (physical, mental, spiritual), additional communicative channels (physical, mental, spiritual), activation of latent genes, perhaps nothing at all, perhaps keys to evolutionary processes, and etc. etc.

 

I do know that the paranoid control freaks in this world need to be set straight and such exploration by consenting adults be left unto itself.....although on an island somewhere might be a good idea........... :biggrin:

 

I'd go and offer my skills and work...............

 

man what i would give to be on that island!!


  • SteampunkScientist likes this

#8 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,544 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:27 AM

Incredible.......gather those folks and get them on payroll.....I'm looking for an island..............

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 03 April 2017 - 10:28 AM.

  • SteampunkScientist and johnwayne1357 like this

#9 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,611 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

 

man what i would give to be on that island!!

 

 

post-131808-0-41971600-1491233905.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

de plane boss.jpg


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 April 2017 - 10:40 AM.

  • Arathu and johnwayne1357 like this

#10 Arathu

Arathu

    Dirtmaker

  • OG VIP
  • 5,544 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:44 AM

I like to amuse my waking image with thought that we're actually ALL segments on some God's pitri plates of agar.................

 

A


  • johnwayne1357 likes this

#11 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,481 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:43 PM

I'm going to be using two spay bottles on my upcoming oats spawned sub. One will be distilled water and hydrogen peroxide, the other will have dissolved L-Tryptamine.

I have a thread on my oat spawn clumping issue, but the goal is highest volume of fruit with highest actives, per unit square footage of sub, at the fastest speed using the simplest processes.

A worthy goal I believe...
  • Soliver likes this

#12 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,481 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:46 PM

Incredible.......gather those folks and get them on payroll.....I'm looking for an island..............

A

What if someone were to actually do this?... Or we could just go to Portugal or Peru...

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 30 July 2017 - 10:46 PM.


#13 Coopdog

Coopdog

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 2,417 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:13 AM

Tryptophan made a big difference in the final product when my friend added it to a substrate. I know this is subjective, but seemed like they were some of the strongest cubes I have ever done. Also very spiritually friendly to my soul. Big noticeable difference gram for gram


  • SteampunkScientist likes this

#14 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 1,546 posts

Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:14 PM

Tryptophan has always been tossed around. The grains we use are typically high in tryptophan, I forget the ranking. Quinoa is higher, I've thought of using quinoa flour and nor I powder as additives.
  • SteampunkScientist likes this

#15 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,481 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

Just ordered a "sack" of L-Tryptophan powder to start spritzing my grows with. Couldn't find that stuff by itself in any of the vitamin and herbalist shops around here, it's always mixed with other things.



#16 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 1,546 posts

Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:47 AM

Just autocorrect got me in my post, I tried to say "nori" ,the seaweed, same as used for sushi making.

#17 Trian3

Trian3

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 82 posts

Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:44 PM

Thought this might add some value to the thread...

 

Foods highest in Tryptophan (based on levels per 200-Calorie serving)

 

http://nutritiondata...0000000000.html


Edited by Trian3, 12 December 2017 - 09:44 PM.


#18 Marleyahu

Marleyahu

    Mycotopiate

  • Black VIP
  • 246 posts

Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:00 PM

This is a great idea. I wonder if you could inoculate cubes in a substrate of mimosa hostilis root bark seeing as how cubes can grow on wood. It wouldn't be the ideal substrate but it would be high in dmt and you could always use some hpoo for more nutrition for the fruits after the mimosa was colonized.

 

This is definitely on my list of things to try now. Thanks for the interesting read!



#19 Jeepster

Jeepster

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 365 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

Very interesting.

#20 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:28 PM

Personally, I'm fascinated by the idea that someone would have enough DMT laying around the house to play around with spraying it on shroom grows.

 

Damn.

 

Volunteer as test grower? 

 

:)

 

soliver


  • coorsmikey, Heirloom , Jeepster and 2 others like this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!