Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Using DMT in substrate to increase ration of 4HO-DMT to 4HO-NMT


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 DonShadow

DonShadow

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 186 posts

Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:38 PM

I've never understood the motivation behind attempts to increase potency by manipulating substrates. Call me a wuss, but after eating just one mouthful of a wood loving or Mexican species the thought of pressing the gas pedal would be the last thing on my mind. At a certain point you have to ask yourself "what exactly am I trying to accomplish anyway?".
  • coorsmikey, Soliver and Jeepster like this

#22 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:15 PM

I've never understood the motivation behind attempts to increase potency by manipulating substrates. Call me a wuss, but after eating just one mouthful of a wood loving or Mexican species the thought of pressing the gas pedal would be the last thing on my mind. At a certain point you have to ask yourself "what exactly am I trying to accomplish anyway?".

 

I think this comes under the umbrella of "just because I can." 

 

My cure for weak shrooms is more shrooms, but hey - each to their own. 

 

I just love the idea that somewhere out there is a grower with so much random shit laying around that they're spraying substrates with freakin' DMT ...I love it.  Wouldn't do it myself, but hey -

 

:)

 

soliver


  • coorsmikey, Jeepster and DonShadow like this

#23 DonShadow

DonShadow

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 186 posts

Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:28 AM

I think it may simply be a matter of individual sensitivity. The concept that mushrooms are somehow "not strong enough" is bewildering to me, but, I am me. Having never sampled DMT myself I get a bit envious when I hear of people looking for creative ways to dispose of it. Pure DMT is very strange in the sense that, like most pharmaceuticals, its existence depends entirely on technological tools of immense complexity. It is an exotic jewel deeply embedded within the anatomy of the mechanical bride. Nah, not my kind of girl.
  • Soliver and Jeepster like this

#24 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,459 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:18 AM

No....

DMT exists within the Ayahuasca ceremony which is thousands of years old, and requires only the technology of a campfire and a water pot.
  • Soliver and Jeepster like this

#25 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:26 AM

I think it may simply be a matter of individual sensitivity. The concept that mushrooms are somehow "not strong enough" is bewildering to me, but, I am me. Having never sampled DMT myself I get a bit envious when I hear of people looking for creative ways to dispose of it. Pure DMT is very strange in the sense that, like most pharmaceuticals, its existence depends entirely on technological tools of immense complexity. It is an exotic jewel deeply embedded within the anatomy of the mechanical bride. Nah, not my kind of girl.

 

Well put - I like the cut of your jib ...

 

I thought about trying to distill some from phalaris grass or whatever tek was going around a while back, just for shits and giggles; the idea of some DMT riding along in the windowbox plants is amusing to say the least, but the idea of A/B extractions, separatory funnels, acid washes, etc., turned me off; didn't want the kitchen looking like a meth lab when the Mormons came over for cookies and indoctrination. 

 

But, like a variety of things, if someone ELSE happens along with a jewel-box - so be it. 

 

:)

 

soliver


  • Jeepster likes this

#26 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:27 AM

No....

DMT exists within the Ayahuasca ceremony which is thousands of years old, and requires only the technology of a campfire and a water pot.

 

I pondered that one too ... it's the hurling that turns me off there, if that's really what generally goes down ...



#27 DonShadow

DonShadow

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 186 posts

Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:28 AM

No....

DMT exists within the Ayahuasca ceremony which is thousands of years old, and requires only the technology of a campfire and a water pot.

Of this I am well aware. I was referring to pure, isolated DMT, which Ayahuasca is not.

...didn't want the kitchen looking like a meth lab when the Mormons came over for cookies and indoctrination.


Exactly.

Edited by DonShadow, 16 December 2017 - 11:46 AM.


#28 Heirloom

Heirloom

    Quantum Particle

  • OG VIP
  • 4,573 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:55 AM

I am sure the enzyme path way has been determined. It has been called the one pot method. While it would seem that the addition of a compound that enzymes can convert into your desired product will increase drug production it isn't that easy one limiting factor is the mycelium needs to increase enzyme production in order to utilize the feed stock being dmt. Or make the enzyme apply it to dmt bypassing the need to grow mycelium.

that knowledge is forbidden fruit

Edited by Heirloom , 16 December 2017 - 12:01 PM.


#29 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Hippiecritical

  • App Administrator
  • 5,436 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

So many people have explored the idea of how light effects pinning and fruiting it’s like beating a dead horse. I can’t find much information on on how light effect the production of psilocybin. Stamets is claiming now that blue light increases the production of alkaloids. Personally I would rather chase that idea than feed my mushrooms DMT. It’s to bad that the equipment to test such theories are well out of the reach of most home mycologists. Either way really, I would like to see results from both ideas.

#30 MsBehavin420

MsBehavin420

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 716 posts

Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:53 PM

If someone would Hold my hand, I'd Gladly take that walk... I know of where to get organic deemsters and have fun guys in the process...

#31 Heirloom

Heirloom

    Quantum Particle

  • OG VIP
  • 4,573 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:23 PM

The one pot method to psilocin used GMO microbes. The interest in biosynthesis began as least back in 1922. There is a huge amount of info on using regular non gmo yeasts and other microbes in synthesis of various compounds. Some amino acids are produced through brewing on an industrial scale. A search for biosynthesis of x drug will provide interesting reading material. The subject has been discussed at length on various drug forums. People who take that route of synthesis are in serious danger of spending their life in prison.

#32 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Hippiecritical

  • App Administrator
  • 5,436 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:39 PM

The one pot method to psilocin used GMO microbes. The interest in biosynthesis began as least back in 1922. There is a huge amount of info on using regular non gmo yeasts and other microbes in synthesis of various compounds. Some amino acids are produced through brewing on an industrial scale. A search for biosynthesis of x drug will provide interesting reading material. The subject has been discussed at length on various drug forums. People who take that route of synthesis are in serious danger of spending their life in prison.

That’s why we don’t talk about it here, bout as far as we’re willing to go is talking about extracts from plant and other organics.

#33 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,459 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:53 PM

No....

DMT exists within the Ayahuasca ceremony which is thousands of years old, and requires only the technology of a campfire and a water pot.

Of this I am well aware. I was referring to pure, isolated DMT, which Ayahuasca is not.

...didn't want the kitchen looking like a meth lab when the Mormons came over for cookies and indoctrination.


Exactly.
Gotcha, just wanted to be clear, and you are correct within the idea of the purified substance... Having done this extraction, yes it is a lot of work.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 16 December 2017 - 06:54 PM.


#34 Heirloom

Heirloom

    Quantum Particle

  • OG VIP
  • 4,573 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:25 PM

to say I did a very bad thing is an understatement the damage I did cannot be repaired, I violated the good intentions of Mycotopia. I deserve to be banned. Is it possible to remove that limiting hopefully preventing any more harm from this violent thing I did.
  • coorsmikey likes this

#35 SteampunkScientist

SteampunkScientist

    Distinguished Mad Scientist

  • OG VIP
  • 3,459 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:40 PM

??? :P

#36 raymycoto

raymycoto

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 262 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:58 PM

Agree with Soliver. It would be fascinating to determine the results of the experiment but I'm pretty sure the return on investment would be rather poor to put pure DMT into substrate. Nonetheless, let us know what you find out.



#37 HooKworm

HooKworm

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:53 AM

part 1

Planta Medica 55 (1989) page 249 - 250 Jochen Gartz

BIOTRANSFORMATION OF TRYPTAMINE IN FRUITING MYCELIA OF PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS.

Jochen Gartz

Institute of Biotechnology, Academy of Sciences of the GDR,

Permoserstrasse 15, GDR-7050 Leipzig, German Democratic Republic

Received: March 13, 1988

ABSTRACT

Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis, with the ability to form psilocybin and psilocin de-novo, also hydroxylated and methylated fed tryptamine to give psilocin in up to 3.3% dry mass of the obtained fruit bodies. By using HPLC and TLC, it was found that these mushrooms contain only a small amount of psilocybin (0.01-0.2% dry mass). The values of psilocin are the highest described in any mushrooms.

INTRODUCTION

Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Sing, is a subs-tropical mushroom and contains the indole alkaloid psilocybin and only small amounts of its dephosphorylated counterpart psilocin (1-4). Variations in these metabolites have been well demonstrated by investigations of fruit bodies cultivated under controlled conditions of a rye-grain medium (2) and rice substratum (3), respectively.

The study of psilocybin biosynthesis in submerged culture of P. cubensis showed that radioactive tryptamine functioned as a better precursor than tryptophan (5-7). It was found that not less than 22.4% of the psilocybin formed was derived from the labeled precursor tryptamine (5). The level of psilocin was generally zero in the mycelial tissue from these experiments (5-7).

In the present paper, the bio-transformation of fed tryptamine in fruiting mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis is described.

MATERIALS and METHODS

Cultivation of Psilocybe cubensis

A dried cow dung/rice-grain mixture (2:1) with twice the amount of water was used to obtain fast fructifications without casing of a strain (3) of Psilocybe cubensis . A 25 mM concentration of tryptamine (as hydrochloride) was added to this medium. Cultivations without the addition of tryptamine were also tested. The methods of cultivations were described in (3).

The first sporocarps were produced by cultures of Psilocybe cubensis in 3 to 4 weeks. The cultures continued to produce mushrooms in five flushes. Each flush was harvested as soon as the sporocarps were mature. The mushrooms were immediately freeze-dried, sealed in plastic, and stored at -10 degrees C until analysis.

EXTRACTION and ANALYSIS The extraction procedure and the analysis of the indole alkaloids by using HPLC and TLC were described in the previous papers (3,8-10). The presence or absence of tryptamine was demonstrated by TLC as described by Stijve et al. (11).

#38 HooKworm

HooKworm

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:59 AM

I have often wondered if this was worth the time , effort , and dmt. I have read a few papers stating when they used acacia substrate , there was noticeable difference is potency. Maybe in a future cycle I will test the waters but I honestly could care less about amping up potency. I like the ride I’m given naturally.

Edited by HooKworm, 04 December 2018 - 10:26 AM.


#39 HooKworm

HooKworm

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:21 AM

Part 2

RESULTS and DISCUSSION

The cow dung-rice mixture actually produced the first flush of mushrooms earlier than the cultivations on ry (with casing) (2) and rice (3), respectively. They yielded an average of 3 g dry mass per 10 g substratum.

Under the same culture conditions, the fructification times, the yields, and sizes of the mushrooms as well as the bluing feature (3) were equal when the growth media also contained high concentrations of tryptamine. Initial experiments without the addition of tryptamine were performed to determine the content of psilocybin and psilocin in comparison with experiments using other culture conditions and/or media (2,3).

The levels of psilocybin and psilocin varied from one flush to the next, but generally were much the same as those in the other experiments (2,3) (table 1). Consistently low levels of psilocin were found in the mushrooms without the addition of tryptamine to the substratum. Additionally, psilocin generally was absent in the first flush as was also observed in earlier investigations (2,3). Table 1 shows that the fed tryptamine gives high values of psilocin in each flush from the cultures.

#40 HooKworm

HooKworm

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:22 AM

Part 3

These psilocin levels are uncommonly high (from 2.1 to 3.3%) since values reported for psilocin in dried mushrooms are always below 1% (1-4,12,13).

Inocybe Aeruginasens Babos contains only traces of psilocin but high amounts of the incompletely methylated psilocybin (baeocystin) (9). In contrast to the intitial experiments without an addition of tryptamine, the mushrooms generally contained only small amounts of psilocybin. The tryptamine level was always zero in each mushroom. In this case no tryptamine was additionally found in the methanolic extract of the vegetative mycelia from the substratum.

In a previous report, Gartz (3) was unable to detect baeocystin in P. cubensis. But Repke et al. (14) reported traces of baeocystin in other strains of Psilocybe cubensis about 10 years ago. They suggested that many non-specific enzyme systems exist in fungi which have the ability to oxidise exogenously added compounds, as well as normal, obligatory intermediates (14).

The results in Table 1 show that the enzyme systems in Psilocybe cubensis have a high hydroxylation and methalation capacity to convert added Tryptamine to psilocin. It is possible that a reduced amount of phosphate in the culture media decreased the bio-synthesis of psilocybin from psilocin in the media.

P.cubensis also failed to produce detectable amounts of baeocystin under these culture conditions.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!