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What if the WALL were no WALL at all?


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#1 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:03 AM

Read this very interesting article about the various companies proposing their designs for the US-Mexico Border wall.  My favorite is the very last one.

 

No wall at all - or as I like to call it, the "Ron Popeil option" - but wait! There's more!

 

https://www.apnews.c...on,-solar-panel

 

Instead of building a wall, build a 3000 mile long tourist attraction, business park, and vacation spot with mag-lev trains, etc.  In other words, use the border to enrich everyone's lives in this area - instead of dividing, make it a place of coming together.

 

I wont hold my hand on my ass for that last one, but it is certainly the best proposal I have heard in awhile.


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#2 Myc

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:23 AM

I would rather educate our future generations with that money. Let's build better schools and more of them.

 

Anyone seeking to build a wall needs to, first, visit Berlin. After that visit, anyone still seeking to build a wall should be placed in front of the nearest wall and shot. 


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#3 CatsAndBats

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:42 AM

The DarkPulse bid is the scariest.



#4 Spooner

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

The best answer yet, and a price worth paying. :bat:

 

17760174_10212146457073359_5208232615960

 

 

Peace

 

 


Edited by Spooner, 05 April 2017 - 09:57 AM.

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#5 CatsAndBats

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:09 AM

[Direct Link]


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#6 fungi2bwith

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 11:35 AM

Let me know how you feel about illegal immigration when you have an illegal as a boss......Then maybe you guys might change your tune.....To explain, someone who has been at a company for 10+ years should be making a good amount of $, but as an illegal, the company doesn't have to pay this person what they should be making.....This sets a standard of pay for every other employee.....

 

Also, those for open borders, go home, and put a sign in the front yard that says come on in and stay as long as you like, eat my food, use my appliances, and go ahead and take that piggy bank while your at it......Don't forget to leave the door unlocked so everyone can go and come as they please.....I bet that wouldn't last long.....the US is our house, and we should treat is as such.

 

also....

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

[Direct Link]

 

My proposal to build the wall would be to use all the funds seized from the cartels to pay the US workers that will be employed to build it, as well as, every illegal that is caught and due to be deported does a mandatory 16 hours of work on the wall....paid of course, like 6$ an hour.....So they have a little bit of cash to get back to their families in whatever country they are from.

 

I'm not against immigration, I'm against illegal immigration. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things.....

 

I also should add, that I don't think a wall is going to do a damn bit of good to stop the flood.....I think what should be done is that americans should be defending their way of life, and doing their civil duty and reporting illegals that they know of......by the way....Make America Great Again!!!

 

  Has anyone ever looked up the consequences of illegally immigrating to Mexico, or Somalia, China, Japan, or Syria?  Is there any other country in the world that has the "Hey c'mon in" open boarders policy?  Mexico has a wall on it's southern boarder....

 

Better yet, has anyone looked up the situation in Kuwait, because that's what I see happening here....Totally americanized country with no middle class, you have the immigrants, who are slaves and make about 60$ a month, and you have the kuwaitees whom are pretty much all posh rich fucks......My brother did a tour there.....lol, you have no idea, hes says to me.....


Edited by fungi2bwith, 05 April 2017 - 12:48 PM.

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#7 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:01 PM

Excellent points fungi, and I agree that I don't want individuals coming and going into my home as they please.

But I was looking at the third alternative in light of the idea that perhaps it would be a way of getting some freedom and prosperity working in Mexico. Get rid of the cartels, enforce basic laws, and allow businesses to thrive and provide employment. Recognize that government cannot do much, does almost everything badly, and us usually the cause of more problems than it solves.

Maybe Mexico could become a country it's citizens would want to stay in.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 05 April 2017 - 12:01 PM.

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#8 sparrow95

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:23 PM

 n


Edited by sparrow95, 05 April 2017 - 12:50 PM.


#9 Alder Logs

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:49 PM

...lying sack of shit?

 

Yes, maybe true, but he was running against a woman who confessed to her donating class that, "you need both a public and a private position." 



#10 CatsAndBats

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:56 PM

Let me know how you feel about illegal immigration when you have an illegal as a boss......Then maybe you guys might change your tune.....

 

Also, those for open borders, go home, and put a sign in the front yard that says come on in and stay as long as you like, eat my food, use my appliances, and go ahead and take that piggy bank while your at it......Don't forget to leave the door unlocked so everyone can go and come as they please.....I bet that wouldn't last long.....the US is our house, and we should treat is as such.

 

Having an "illegal" as one's boss doesn't taint one's perspective now does it?

 

 

 

 

Also, those for open borders, go home, and put a sign in the front yard that says come on in and stay as long as you like, eat my food, use my appliances, and go ahead and take that piggy bank while your at it......Don't forget to leave the door unlocked so everyone can go and come as they please.....I bet that wouldn't last long.....the US is our house, and we should treat is as such.

 

 

With all due respect @fungi, that is an overly simplistic and clunky analogy to say the least.

 

That said, I would harbor, protect, and care for any person/people that were being round up simply because of their nationality, their sexual identification, or their religious views.

 

 

Maybe Mexico could become a country it's citizens would want to stay in.

 

The way TPTB are using hatred to divide it's own citizens, the way they are deregulating environmental safeguards, and the way they are just making rich people more rich, in 10 years, we'll be the ones climbing the wall to get over there.

 

Using the "immigrants are ruining everything" and "this is our country" nonsense, is the oldest scam in the book. Hitler used it, white supremacists use it, Marine La Pen is using it and Trump uses/used it.

 

When Trump used it to during his campaign, he used it to prey upon the people that are doing the worst in the US. In fact his entire campaign was based on the notion that our country is no longer great, which by most measures is completely false.

 

Unemployment is down

tgo8txfrw0wvn_p_rwyelw.png

 

The violent crime rate has been on the decline

Fig_2_Final.jpg

 

 

We're living longer

 

dsg195_500_350.jpg

 

Our country is and has been great and is getting better I could argue. Turning citizens against themselves is a classic divide and conquer technique.

 

I've been working with documented and undocumented immigrants for the lion's share of my life and they as a group are the hardest working people that I've ever been around in my humble opinion.


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#11 CatsAndBats

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

...lying sack of shit?

 

Yes, maybe true, but he was running against a woman who confessed to her donating class that, "you need both a public and a private position." 

 

It was just an attempt at levity on my part. Virtually all people of wealth and power or at least the ones running for office, are lying sacks of shit IMHO, and not the good kind of dung that we grow mushrooms on. :biggrin:


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#12 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:16 PM

Let's not forget that most of these problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by corrupt governments, multinational quasi-governmental organizations and corporations, and people like George Soros who attempt to control everything.

I don't know what the solution is. But if the gumball video is correct, then we live in a world with 7 billion people, 5 billion who are profoundly poor. If I lived in Mexico as one of these people and I thought it was possible to help my family and loved ones by coming to the USA illegally... I most likely would do so.

But I also know there is a "religious" group of people who would have no problem blowing me up, cutting off my head, killing everyone I love if they could. I don't want them here.

It's a mess, and it seems it is the fucked up belief systems that are causing it all. Some will blame it on the inherent"sinful" nature of man and wait for a savior.

But I don't think there is a savior beyond the face we see in the mirror.

I did not mean to open a can of political worms here, I was intrigued by the suggestion that there could be other solutions than building a wall... We can't solve the whole problem but perhaps we could solve a small part?
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#13 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:10 PM

Another thing... It seems we are looking at this problem upside down.

Most people I meet have a vague notion that the West, American in particular, are privledged.

No. The truth is, humanity is privledged. The two thirds are not poor because "they haven't developed yet.", No, it's because they have not been allowed to by endless series of petty dictators, petty religious beliefs, or both.

We are a single Race! One. All the bullshit about skin color, origin, orientation, etc ad nauseum. No, we are human, we all ought to be free, and we all must respect the same in each other.

Every country could develop, and quickly, if allowed. South Korea anyone? In a few decades they went from a bombed out backward country to what it is today.

So it is possible. Free people do amazing things. Like fly off this planet one day.

It's that or destruction I fear.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 05 April 2017 - 09:13 PM.

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#14 Myc

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:22 PM

There really is no answer. No pie-in-the-sky simple solution. 

 

Drug demand is causing conflict - Farmers have to complete with cash-crop growers of coffee and coca. Major coffee companies are snapping-up farmland by buying it from the government. The farmers who live on that land are driven off. They are forced to higher elevation in order to grow enough food to feed themselves. At higher elevation, they have to compete for space with coca farmers and their militant "support" group. (The folks who pay the folks who farm and process the coca). 

This condition creates such conditions that a northward migration seems the only answer. Yes, there are folks who view Mexico as "the promised land". The influx of migrants from the south puts strain upon the resources of the Mexican government much like the pressures we feel as Americans as Mexico's poor try to take a shot at being "middle class" in America. 

 

So where does this start?

The coffee corporations have "paid" to the government - so they're not likely going anywhere.

I don't foresee all cocaine users world-wide ceasing to ever use the substance again - so another dead-end.

The best we can do is manage a way where "they" (being of immigrant status) can begin to contribute to the tax base and at least offset their burden to public social services. Many of "them" steal social security numbers just so they can hold a legitimate job. Why not make that process easier? 


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#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:27 PM

 

...George Soros who attempt to control everything.

 

 

I'll see your Soros and raise you two Kochs and seven Waltons. 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...litical_scandal



#16 August West

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:55 PM

 

 

...George Soros who attempt to control everything.

 

 

I'll see your Soros and raise you two Kochs and seven Waltons. 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...litical_scandal

 

Am I missing something with the connections of your "raise" and the wiki link? I glanced at the link but...?

 

Btw, I think you may need another few Koch's and some Walton's to raise on a Soros (6:45 onwards is especially, uh, enlightening):

 

[Direct Link]



#17 Coopdog

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 02:10 AM

This is a sore subject for me, because it causes me huge internal conflict. I started to type out an answer this morning and backed it out as I did not like how my own thoughts made me sound. Like someone above said, the illegal people I have met in my life, and that is quite a few, have been some of the most honorable and hard working people I have ever met, who wanted nothing but to improve the lives of their families. They live in fear of ICE showing up and destroying their dream. Honestly I can't reconcile this knowledge with the fact that they also have access to services and medical help that a poor American does NOT. This is just not right and it hurts me to say so.

 

I live in a sanctuary state. Our state issues drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. If I go to the DMV, it is full to overflowing at any time of day with these people who are so desperately trying to change their lives. My wife's brother was literally dying when he came out here. When we took him to the Social Security Disability offices, again it was full to overflowing with Illegals. He was literally denied by a woman who told us in a loud voice that it is too bad he is not an illegal immigrant, as he would have immediately been issued health care and cash benefits, even with no identification. She was truly apologetic to send us on our way with our hat in hand and no help to be had.

 

Also as someone above said the Muslim immigrants are a totally different situation and much more to worry about in my opinion. I have two adult daughters and a wife to worry about, so I truly fear an influx of people who feel they can abuse and insult and disrespect my ladies in any way. I don't get my information and attitude from the news, I have friends in Dearborn and Detroit Michigan who have told me multiple horror stories of how these people think of our free thinking women who expect to be treated with the respect due to a lady no matter where you are from. I have also heard from online friends in Sweden and the UK who were once liberal thinkers who invited these people into their country and are very damn sorry they did. I am not a xenophobe, but if your religions empowers you to marry and have sex with an 8 year old, and commit genital mutilation on them, and to kill and stone and behead a woman who was raped, and who demands the death or subjugation of anyone who does not believe as you do, then that is not a religion in my opinion. It is a plague and should not be tolerated in a world where mutual respect is fundamental right.

 

There is no easy answer to these issues. As a man with a big heart and an open mind, it pains me to realize my own thought processes. We need to close our borders and gain some control of who comes into our country and how they do it. The burden on the American taxpayer, which I happen to be is increasing in a big way. With the threat of the cutting of federal funding, our governor and mayors are talking already of increasing our already heavy tax burden to compensate for their open arms policies. I truly want the US to be a place that people can better their lives, but I also am bearing a huge tax burden as a man working what is supposed to be a decent job. As it is, we are barely getting by now and live no life of luxury as it seems a lot of people think we should be. I am thankful for everything we have and am very generous in my wallet and my heart, but it is getting to the tipping point.

 

The book Atlas Shrugged seems to be coming to life in this state and it is frightening. The differences between the right and the left are not as huge as some people think. The differences are in personal responsibility in my opinion, and I am sure as hell carrying my own the best I can. I hope this post doesn't alienate or offend anyone as I truly tried to represent and respect both sides here. Someone said above that it was simplistic and unrealistic to use the terms bring them into your own home to represent this, well in my opinion it is EXACTLY that. This IS our home and the home of the ladies we love, and bringing people here who do not respect their basic right to live their life is in no way a good policy.

 

EDIT: somehow my usual closing of Peace... doesn't seem possible here...  :(


Edited by Coopdog, 06 April 2017 - 02:13 AM.

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#18 Spooner

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:31 AM

I am no longer a taxpayer so perhaps my opinion does not matter, but It matters to me.  For 50 years I complained about paying Social Security Taxes, I don't trust gov to handle money responsibly, so I put some aside myself.  Now living adequately on my assets, but gov gives me back my SSI money each month that I don't need, so I donate to places and friends, The Horned Lizard Conservation Society, Arbor Day Foundation, Mycotopia, and others.  

 

My position in the world is assured by what I do, not by those who I exclude,  Work hard, play hard, and educate yourself.  There is NO security in life other than each individual's adaptability, hard work, and luck.  I give no preference to man or woman based on whose womb they popped out of, or where they were geographically located when they were born.  Those who strive to thrive will do better than those who just accept a slot allocated to them as a birthright, and I accept the equality of that reality.


Edited by Spooner, 06 April 2017 - 09:50 AM.

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#19 August West

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:36 AM

Take money from cartels? I've got a way to take money from cartels. Stop the prohibition on personal freedom.

There really is no answer. No pie-in-the-sky simple solution.

Drug demand is causing conflict - Farmers have to complete with cash-crop growers of coffee and coca. Major coffee companies are snapping-up farmland by buying it from the government. The farmers who live on that land are driven off. They are forced to higher elevation in order to grow enough food to feed themselves. At higher elevation, they have to compete for space with coca farmers and their militant "support" group. (The folks who pay the folks who farm and process the coca).
This condition creates such conditions that a northward migration seems the only answer. Yes, there are folks who view Mexico as "the promised land". The influx of migrants from the south puts strain upon the resources of the Mexican government much like the pressures we feel as Americans as Mexico's poor try to take a shot at being "middle class" in America.

So where does this start?
The coffee corporations have "paid" to the government - so they're not likely going anywhere.
I don't foresee all cocaine users world-wide ceasing to ever use the substance again - so another dead-end.
The best we can do is manage a way where "they" (being of immigrant status) can begin to contribute to the tax base and at least offset their burden to public social services. Many of "them" steal social security numbers just so they can hold a legitimate job. Why not make that process easier?

Don't forget those brilliant trade deals like NAFTA that synthetically develop markets for foreign products to be cheaper than domestic ones - like U.S. corn being cheaper in Mexico than Mexican corn.

No worries though, Trump's gonna make America great again by repealing NAFTA...oh wait. No he's not. You got scammed again Trumpies

http://www.mintpress...ressure/226442/

Edited by August West, 06 April 2017 - 09:39 AM.

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#20 Alder Logs

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:51 AM

The book I just read, Listen, Liberal: Whatever Happened To the People's Party, by Thomas Frank, was a really good refresher course on how we got NAFTA.  Republicans; can't get what you want?  Simple, just put in a corporate Democrat and complain while they give you 85% of what you want, and block what you don't want.


Edited by Alder Logs, 06 April 2017 - 09:52 AM.





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