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What if the WALL were no WALL at all?


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#21 CatsAndBats

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

Take money from cartels? I've got a way to take money from cartels. Stop the prohibition on personal freedom

 

 

Exactly. Legalize all of it.


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#22 Myc

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:10 PM

Thanks for the link to the story AugustWest.

 

Trumped again. 

We got Trump'D! (Instead of "Punk'D". It's a cute new reality show. We're all participants.)

 

My only real expectation from this administration was that the forward efforts of the cabal might be hindered. 

Looks like I was wrong on all accounts.

I would feel worse if I had voted for the lying sack of shit but I really knew better than to expect anything different from what we've seen so far. 

 

....pick up my guitar and play.

....then I'll get on my knees and pray. 


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#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 01:43 PM

We had our chance.

 

 

gallery_131808_1351_3726.jpg


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#24 CatsAndBats

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 01:50 PM

post-147940-0-19670100-1491504489.jpg

 

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Edited by catattack, 06 April 2017 - 01:50 PM.

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#25 Arathu

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

Make dirt....lie back to them...............this IS the solution but there is no interest in providing solutions........only perpetual problems that generate NEEDS................and the self appointed heroes provide.....MORE of the same shit

 

"Stop the prohibition on personal freedom.................

Exactly. Legalize all of it."

I KNOW that this is correct because of the appalled responses I get from The IN-FORMED masses of self righteous jackasses...............when I tell them THEY ARE THE PROBLEM..........in-fromation is not a noun.......it's a verb.........

 

If it's pouring out of THEIR DEVICES into our pre programmed belief sets and KNOWLEDGE...........what will the resultant be? The exact reason I've abandoned them.............I rebuilt most of my beliefs from the foundational paradox........I AM....

 

The rest is a precarious bowl of pea gravel.....IMHO

 

A junkie KNOWS he/she is a junkie, a drunkard KNOWS that he/she is a drunkard.....a coke head KNOWS that he/she is a coke head.........a money/power/dogmatic religious asshole KNOWS and BELIEVES he/she is right....in many cases even of divine origin... ...............I KNOW that I don't know shit and have NO RIGHT to tell any of you what to know of believe.............I can only babble and offer a bowl, a shroom from time to time...........and tomatoes...............

 

AND LOVE......I KNOW that LOVE is the deal..............

 

A


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#26 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:21 PM


...George Soros who attempt to control everything.

I'll see your Soros and raise you two Kochs and seven Waltons.



https://en.wikipedia...litical_scandal
He was just an example Alder, but yeah... You make my point.

Arathu, I like your attitude, basically:

"I can see paradise! I can see how to get there too. Y'all coming? No? Suit yourself... I'm going now."

If enough decide to live as free humans, perhaps some of the others will have a mind and heart change.

But if not, even if I go alone, I shall be free.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 06 April 2017 - 09:27 PM.

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#27 Heirloom

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 09:58 PM

I am worried the wall might keep me from leaving
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#28 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 10:46 PM

Remember the SSC they started building. Yeah, a big hole in the ground now.

At this rate that wall will be finished when we have established human colonies on other planets.

#29 Coopdog

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 01:53 AM

Legalizing things certainly doesn't keep the cartels from making money. They are not stupid. They have a big hand in legal growing, and even bully people into growing for them. I know this because a good friend was pressured very hard to either grow for them or be burned out, so he grew for them for a long time and when it ended it ended badly. They have a hand in a lot of things besides illegal drugs. Even if they did legalize drugs, they still have to come from somewhere, and they already have the infrastructure in place to make it happen.


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#30 August West

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 08:55 AM

They only exist because of prohibition. They may branch into legal markets (btw there is still a lot more illegal cannabis) because they already have infrastructure but they would cease to exist as you know them if all they were doing was dealing in legal markets. All other activities are essentially ancillary to illegal drugs.

Edited by August West, 07 April 2017 - 09:22 AM.

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#31 fungi2bwith

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:40 AM

 


 

I've been working with documented and undocumented immigrants for the lion's share of my life and they as a group are the hardest working people that I've ever been around in my humble opinion.

 

 

 

I find them to be alot like the manufacturing industry......fix something just long enough to get you through, but it WILL break or go to shit, and eventually you'll have to call those workers back out to fix the half ass job they did giving them job security.....I believe the undocumented workers I worked with in construction called it "mexican style".....

 

Also, yes cat, having an illegal as a boss has tainted my view, and given me new perspective on the situation.....before, I could give a shit less, but now it's directly effecting me and my pay and what I can provide for my family.....They live 12-15 per household....making their way of life extremely cheap to live......I'm a middle aged native american trying to support my wife and child and would like to not live in squaller, nor like I live in a third world country.....If you want to know what I mean, I would be more than happy to take a picture of my illegal neighbors backyard that looks like a junkyard, or perhaps the 30 people that pile out of the one bedroom trailer they stay in, looks like a damn bunch of clowns climbing out of an undersized car.......

 

Either way, we shouldn't be allowing undocumented migrants into the country, we should be helping them where they live....if at all

 

if you havent watched this, you should.....all stuff about the ban aside, if these people are going to kill me as an american in their own streets, why should we let them here....this doesn't apply to just iraq.....

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

I also noticed that none of the questions I posed in my first response garnered no answers so far....hmmm

 

here they are again...

 

" Has anyone ever looked up the consequences of illegally immigrating to Mexico, or Somalia, China, Japan, or Syria?  Is there any other country in the world that has the "Hey c'mon in" open boarders policy?"

 

I know the answers, I'm just wondering if anyone else has considered this......

 

If I were an illegal, i would have health, dental, and vision insurance all paid for by the state, and would have access to a 50,000$ business loan, alas, I'm a true red white and blue blooded american, and so those things aren't available to me as a legal resident.....kinda fucked up don't you think? 

 

Story time, Me and my wife were living in California/Mexifornia and when we went to get our drivers licenses, my wife had to present every piece of id she'd ever owned, birth cert., divorce cert., marriage lisc., old drivers licenses, etc., etc.  Point is, it was a real pain in the ass for her, she has red hair and blue eyes, but I sat there and watched every person with black hair and brown skin, I have this characteristic too(probably why I wasn't hassled), get a state sanctioned ID or DL no problem, they were just giving them out like candy.....But I guess this is to be expected from a sanctuary state like CA.....

 

These guys don't live in fear of ICE...that's ludicrous.....ICE gives two shits about these people, if they did, my boss would be back in mexico by now......


Edited by fungi2bwith, 07 April 2017 - 11:17 AM.

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#32 Arathu

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 07:10 PM

Understood......yes the ramifications for being illegal in many places would probably just be bullet in the head. It's very cheap and no one would even know.......nor do they care.

 

If anyone mistakes my stance, in my country, after having served in a very significant manner for it, they will find out possibly quite rudely how far my tolerance will be pushed. Any endangerment of my family WILL RESULT in decisive "UN-endangerment" (I will not elaborate)

 

I won't work for illegal people (I know many folks do not have options they are willing or able to go after. I am grateful that I do) I am in the process right now of making changes in my own personal situation because I'm simply NOT satisfied.

 

I certainly do not agree with paying for non citizens before my fellow citizens but then again I don't agree with the insane prices and gouging being handed to us by our fellows either. It's a fucked up situation all the way around.

 

In my state the god damned representative tipped off "illegals" that a raid was coming....who the fuck is actually running things???????

 

Shit is going sour, really sour, FAST..............the first mother fucker dis-respecting my daughter is gonna be lucky to ????????? Again, I will not elaborate much......But I might just cook ya on a spit.........

 

A


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#33 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:56 AM

" Has anyone ever looked up the consequences of illegally immigrating to Mexico, or Somalia, China, Japan, or Syria? Is there any other country in the world that has the "Hey c'mon in" open boarders policy?"


I have. And you are correct Fung. In the current state of our world, maintained borders are an unfortunate necessity.

But at the same time I can imagine a future where people just respect the right of others... A blue sky notion, I know we have so few who maintain respect for others that those who do are taken advantage of. And then we go from a respect mentality, to a fortress mentality.

The countries you listed have very strict emigration policies that require you have a demonstrable skill set, many require sponsors to vouch for you, there is usually money involved, and it can take years if it happens at all.

Oh, and of course renouncing your previous citizenship, and a whole set of other loyalty oaths if you get that far.

Except for Belize. They just don't give much of a shit there.
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#34 Spooner

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 09:36 AM

I grew up in Southern Texas where my school mates were mostly many generations local folks.  Our town had the 50th anniversary of becoming a town while I was a child.  In school history class we were taught how our piece of this good earth had been Indian, then Spanish, then Mexican, then Republic of Texas, then part of the USA.  All this time, the local people remained much the same despite these changes.  Suddenly neighbors became "foreigners" and could no longer simply come to dinner or swap cows for corn with us.

 

To someone a thousand miles away this does not have the absurd impact that it has for us living here.  Look out your window and imagine that just because someone 1000 miles away draws a line on a piece of paper you can no longer go visit your neighbor, or shop at the closest store, visit your grandparents and cousins, or have your brothers children come live with you if he dies.

 

Personally, this seems irrational to me.

 

The land has no understanding of politics.


Edited by Spooner, 08 April 2017 - 09:41 AM.

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#35 August West

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:48 AM



" Has anyone ever looked up the consequences of illegally immigrating to Mexico, or Somalia, China, Japan, or Syria? Is there any other country in the world that has the "Hey c'mon in" open boarders policy?"

I don't understand the point of providing these examples - Syria, Mexico, Somalia or China? Who cares what their policies are? Are they examples of places that should have policies repeated? I'm guessing there's not a lot of clamoring to get into these places, to more or less degree, anyway.

Edited by August West, 08 April 2017 - 12:54 PM.


#36 sparrow95

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:34 PM

We are all the same species.  Division just benefits politicians who gain power from fear.  There are great people in other countries.   There are assholes in other countries.  Same ratio everywhere.  We are all human.   IMHO..


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#37 Heirloom

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:55 PM

I can understand both sides of this discussion. I have thought about emigrating to another country in years past. I wanted more freedom and a chance at a better life.

I should be happy to be a US citizen, but I want more.

I think the countries with the harshest penalties for illegal immigration are countries that people
want to escape from. I am very lucky not to of been born in any of those places.

The wall will not work even if they put a landmine field on either side.

Probably already been said but the solution is for people to be able to have great lives where they are born. However I think money stands in the way. An employer wants cheap labor and this drives illegal
immigration. People's desire for more material goods drives immigration.

Education might offer a solution if people were taught how to be content with what they have.
I can see great opportunities for people in Mexico but them being born there they can't see the forest for the trees.

I recall a statement from a Cuban refugee who said something to the effect " he came to America to have a better life, its sad that Americans have no where to go to have better lives"

I really don't think I am smart enough to say much. I have enjoyed reading this discussion,everone has
been very civil and explained points of view very well.
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#38 Heirloom

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 02:29 PM

fung with you being Native American , you got a point.

I am an illegal , I was born here from illegal's who came a long time ago, uninvited.

in biology we call this gene migration. Evolution in action, driven by man's desire for more.

I am lucky I got my nephew here to read and study the Tao, reading to me as I am the elder.
I symbolically bow to my elders.

The wall is a distraction , I will now go listen to Pink Floyds The wall.
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#39 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:08 PM

My body too is mostly of the genetics of the Christian Barbarians.   

 

In 1967 the submarine I lived on went to Auckland New Zealand.  I met so many people there that wanted to come to the United States.   I tried to tell them what a special place they were in already.  But they wanted a different image of life.  Weird.  I wanted to stay there.   For years, just looking at population maps, I wanted to move to the central west coast of Tasmania.  My kind of population density there.   I think I would have about the same relationship to timber companies there as I have here would be my only concern.


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#40 Arathu

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:28 PM

None of us OWNS any of this, it's very much the other way around.............

 

https://webuser.scen...ib/pdf/ost.pdf

 

If you like to read I offer a link to a paper by Viktor Shauberger - Our Senseless Toil.....  for the stimulation of thoughts

 

 

Is there really such an enormous difference between the breaching of a riverbank and the bursting of our blood vessels? Is it really
necessary that the last human being must rot away alive before we all become consciously aware of the errors of our ways? Why can
we not admit to ourselves that it is our senseless activity that is killing us? Do we actually have the right to stuff such worthless
knowledge into our children, when science has already led us to the very brink of disaster? Where does our knowledge begin and
where does it end?

Does anyone still dare to speak of science and culture in the same breath? Are our children actually wrong if they refuse to be
instructed by their parents and teachers, and choose to go their own way? Is one seriously to believe that hunger can be appeased by
political phrases and bayonets? Are there really still people who believe that improvements can be achieved through coercion, when
work undertaken of their own free will has already brought such unspeakable misfortune?

If this be true, then let Nature quietly continue to so prevail, for she will then do great and noble work. Nature is simpler in her
effects and more complex in her functions than our rational minds can conceive.



 


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