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What if the WALL were no WALL at all?


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#41 Spooner

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 08:47 PM

I read the experiment but did not understand it.  May try again later...



#42 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 09:04 PM

That sounds all well and good,but what Shauberger failed to recognize is the we, our minds, our actions, are the creation of Nature, therefore the distinction of our actions as differentiated from "nature's" actions is illusion.

We are not nature's destruction, we are nature's creation. Perhaps then this seeing of our actions as ultimately destructive of ourselves, is what nature is doing now to guide us to the right course.

But it's a lot like trying to steer the Titanic through an ice filled sea, big ships, or 7 billion people can't turn on a dime.

Perhaps this is our current "evolution"... But like mushrooms trying to colonize a cake of flour, there are always the contaminents trying to get there first.

In our case it's this bad thinking.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 08 April 2017 - 09:10 PM.

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#43 FieldTrip

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:55 PM

I would rather educate our future generations with that money. Let's build better schools and more of them.

 

Anyone seeking to build a wall needs to, first, visit Berlin. After that visit, anyone still seeking to build a wall should be placed in front of the nearest wall

 

I completely agree. Although the first major step would need to be, IMO, completely remove the government from school systems. They have no place there. They should be controlled 100% by states/counties/cities. I'm seriously thinking about home schooling my kids next year.


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#44 FieldTrip

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 02:20 PM

 


" Has anyone ever looked up the consequences of illegally immigrating to Mexico, or Somalia, China, Japan, or Syria? Is there any other country in the world that has the "Hey c'mon in" open boarders policy?"
 

I don't understand the point of providing these examples - Syria, Mexico, Somalia or China? Who cares what their policies are? Are they examples of places that should have policies repeated? I'm guessing there's not a lot of clamoring to get into these places, to more or less degree, anyway.

 

 

Excellent point. I feel a revolution is just around the corner.. Oh! I almost forgot to bring it up, but what do you all think about trumps irrational decision to kill more innocent people in Syria? Unbelievable.. I've lost all hope. So fed up with this 2 party system :/



#45 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 03:39 PM

I read the experiment but did not understand it.  May try again later...

Shauberger had his own flavor of understanding things, he used language that can be difficult for us to understand with our current linguistics and "scientific" definitions. Spooner if you are referring to the experiment with the U shaped glass tube and capillaries it was his own work that he used to show the nature of "vitalized" living water as found in the Earth. Viktor showed that TRUE springs demonstrated a seemingly anomalous rise from depth as opposed to a "run through or down" filter through the rocks.........it takes quite an effort to try and decode what he was saying............IMHO

 

A


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#46 Coopdog

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 03:40 PM

Personally I feel we should not be Team America World Police. I am appalled that we have once more made provocative action that could result in real life world war. I have serious reservations as to whether there actually were any chemical weapons used. Syria invited investigators in from the UN to investigate the sites where chemical weapons were used because they say there were none used. The whole thing stinks of yet another false flag operation. I seriously worry about our future if this species doesn't find a way to interact without killing one another. Makes me sad deep down in my soul and I am just SMH waiting for the next rock to fly.

 

Peace...


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#47 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 03:50 PM

That sounds all well and good,but what Shauberger failed to recognize is the we, our minds, our actions, are the creation of Nature, therefore the distinction of our actions as differentiated from "nature's" actions is illusion.

We are not nature's destruction, we are nature's creation. Perhaps then this seeing of our actions as ultimately destructive of ourselves, is what nature is doing now to guide us to the right course.

But it's a lot like trying to steer the Titanic through an ice filled sea, big ships, or 7 billion people can't turn on a dime.

Perhaps this is our current "evolution"... But like mushrooms trying to colonize a cake of flour, there are always the contaminents trying to get there first.

In our case it's this bad thinking.

Really? Interesting observation SPS.............. I read this and interpreted it completely differently..........

 

 

The human is a being created according to Nature's laws and is therefore dependent upon them. In the course of time our magnum
opus, our self-created pseudo-culture, has become a meaningless and incoherent monstrosity. Through the immense power of
technology it has reached such gargantuan proportions that it almost equals the power of Nature herself. At the very least it is already
able to interfere destructively with her great life-giving functions. Humanity represents but a small spark, a mere micro-organism in
Nature's great panoply of Life. Encouraged by a short-lived, illusory success, humanity has embarked on a course that is beginning to
disrupt the great coherence of Life. Not only this, but it is also about to put an end to all high-quality growth and production on our
macro-organism, Earth.
Despite our accumulation of material wealth, humanity is now engulfed by a widespread economic collapse. Many areas of
production exhibit regressive trends so that visible epicentres of decay are growing on all sides and threatening humanity itself.
Despite all the research no means can be found to prevent humanity from decaying alive. This is no more than the just and legitimate
consequence of human activity. Knowing nothing of Nature's omnipotent laws, and with mindless greed, humanity claws into the
life-giving organism of Mother Earth. She is now, with elemental power, beginning to paralyse the wanton hand that dared disturb the
forces that serve all Creation.
This unique law, which reigns supreme throughout Nature's vastness and oneness, expresses itself in every creature and organism. It
is the Law of Ceaseless Cycles that in every organism is linked to a definite time-span and a particular tempo.

 

Viktor can be very difficult to interpret and understand....he would also take pokes at the arrogant scientists, engineers, and bureaucrats that had inflated ego's, lofty degree's and great volumes of published works. The essence that I draw from this paper, OST, is specifically that WE firstly derive and recognize that WE ARE UNDER THE INFLUENCE of our own ego's and are thus causing our own demise DIRECTLY...........

 

You appear to be saying the same thing Viktor was...........Keep in mind he did not speak English, at least not well.........

 

Rock the biosphere too far and 7 billion people WILL DROP on a dime..............and the mushrooms will turn us ALL back to dirt...........

 


Edited by Arathu, 09 April 2017 - 03:56 PM.

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#48 Myc

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 04:09 PM

I read Living Energies and looked into as much of Shauberger's work as I could lay hands on.

 

I see you refer to a tipping point ....... we're way past that. We're in the soup right now and just treading water until it boils. 

Perhaps the earth compels large numbers to gather as adversaries. Like swarm behavior or any other of nature's programs. We're not above any of them - we are of them. I'm interested to see what comes of all of this stirring about of armies and adversaries. 

Stay small, stay out of the way. 


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#49 Alder Logs

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 04:11 PM

I believe he did not speak English, and anything you will read is a translation.   Viktor Schauberger has been a hero of mine since I first was pointed to him in the '80s.  I once wrote a piece called, "Who Was Viktor Schauberger," but it was on a Commodore 128 before I had internet. 


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#50 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 04:16 PM

WE will not solve our problems using the same mentality, beliefs, and convictions that created them in the first place............

 

Like any other addicts, in my view they cannot be separated anyway, we are in complete denial of the root cause of our dilemma.........

 

And we lack the collective courage are very possibly even blinded to the necessity of the sacrifice(s) required to make the needed changes..........

 

I have a pretty comfortable life right now relative to most of the rest of humanity...........I can see and feel the need to change......

 

The only functional answer I have come to as of yet is to return to a much more natural state of being..........

 

The Earth IS fully capable of supporting all of us in natural balance and dare I say even abundance......IF we choose to cooperate with Her and everything else......

 

That means EACH OTHER too..................but our values are going to have to change, all of this junk we have and our precious conveniences are not so good..........

 

The parable of the Dragon that Hoards his Gold is not a simple fairy tale.........and the hero comes along and slays the dragon.....only to fall prey to the very same malady...........

 

Read in original languages and from the early manuscripts one finds that the "dragon" usually started out as a MAN.........and morphed into the beast......Lord of the Rings has one in it too....precious....

 

Once the Earth decides that balance will be restored it's all over but the stinking..................IMHO

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 09 April 2017 - 04:23 PM.

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#51 Alder Logs

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

Once we actually know what we are, our values will automatically change.  Life will be spontaneous.  The moment will give us our assignments.   We are life.


Edited by Alder Logs, 09 April 2017 - 04:23 PM.

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#52 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

Once we actually know what we are, our values will automatically change.  Life will be spontaneous.  The moment will give us our assignments.   We are life.

That brings me great hope....................... :meditate:

 

A


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#53 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:13 PM

Viktor can be very difficult to interpret and understand....he would also take pokes at the arrogant scientists, engineers, and bureaucrats that had inflated ego's, lofty degree's and great volumes of published works. The essence that I draw from this paper, OST, is specifically that WE firstly derive and recognize that WE ARE UNDER THE INFLUENCE of our own ego's and are thus causing our own demise DIRECTLY...........

You appear to be saying the same thing Viktor was...........Keep in mind he did not speak English, at least not well.........

Rock the biosphere too far and 7 billion people WILL DROP on a dime..............and the mushrooms will turn us ALL back to dirt...........

A


No, I get what he is saying. Rupert Sheldrake talks about and quotes his work quite a bit, because morphic fields fits so well with his experiments.

But here is the thing, earlier in his quote he mentions the 'omnipotent' power of nature. He's right. But then, no matter the power of our technology, even should we attain the power to move a galaxy, we shall still be nature's creation.

So, the question is, is what we are, or what we are becoming what nature wants? Does nature "want"? Do we have the ability to change as a species?

Or is it just a few of us?
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#54 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:34 PM

Yes.......very deep questions there................

 

I have also contemplated such...........

 

Could it also be that the "Earth Keepers" have a specific mind/body/spirit set and will stay here to be blown away as the sun eventually dies....

 

while the "Star-Seekers" will of necessity need a new set of mind/body/spirit as they continue the expansion outwards.........

 

Good stuff..............absolutely you are, IMHO , indirectly stating the paradox of consciousness......... it could just be me making such a connection though...

 

I recognize that I am recognizing myself...........but who is recognizing that?????  Isn't that a circular reference?

 

So "I" wonder if the underlying animating nature of the universe is not consciousness itself...............

 

As cold as it may sound......in a pure Spock-like fashion.........

 

Wars and disease make fertilizer just like winter does................from death comes new life...

 

Tells me NOT to place too much, or at least very long term value in this meat suit which is NOT me..............but it does, like my Harley, IMHO have great value.....to me...for now......

 

A functional delusion........again just in my own opinion........

 

Imagine all of us out in field festival somewhere for a week with plenty of mushrooms..................hahahahaha

 

A


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#55 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:40 PM

Indeed!

#56 Alder Logs

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:03 PM

I used to work for this brick layer when I was his hod carrier.  One time when I spoke of people being unnatural, he said I was wrong, and that people were completely natural.  He said that people are a natural disaster.

 

But seriously, the destruction of species, habitats, the wasting away of the topsoil, and the toxification of it, along with the air, and the waters; what realized being could happily go along with it?  It always comes back down to identity.  When we think we are something more or less than life itself, we serve a false identity.  We keep up appearances, serving our self images.  Even if I say "I'm an environmentalist," or, "I'm a saint," it matters not, no one is a noun.  We are being.  But even being becomes wasted in our illusions of otherness.  We place ourselves in a picture that is always not quite true.  It might be at times factual, but never true. 

 

So, being a world destroyer, or a world saver, either falls short and neither is what is.   Much has to be laid aside to be true, but nothing true can ever be put aside, only hidden behind our ideas and beliefs.   In being true, one needs no law except one, the one that cannot be written.   But, we will try to be what we are by becoming.   Can you see that this is the false wanting to be true?   Who, knowing self as all, will set out upon a struggle?   Being as other, we build fortresses of hypothetical otherness and prepare for battle, wondering why our worlds seem never to come to harmony.  Other is a fiction.  Only knowing self as silence, is the silence seen in all.  


Edited by Alder Logs, 09 April 2017 - 10:07 PM.

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#57 Arathu

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:47 PM

I always get back to.........."Did ALL become bored with being NOTHING and explode out into everything?"

 

in my petty attempts to grasp.........I sometimes shut up...........

 

Why? ............and I got an "A" in the philosophy class (for real) when I turned my paper right back in and it said "Why not?"

 

Some life we will sat around the fire Alder and I hope we'll remember.............. :meditate:

 

A


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#58 FieldTrip

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 11:41 PM

I used to work for this brick layer when I was his hod carrier.  One time when I spoke of people being unnatural, he said I was wrong, and that people were completely natural.  He said that people are a natural disaster.

 

But seriously, the destruction of species, habitats, the wasting away of the topsoil, and the toxification of it, along with the air, and the waters; what realized being could happily go along with it?  It always comes back down to identity.  When we think we are something more or less than life itself, we serve a false identity.  We keep up appearances, serving our self images.  Even if I say "I'm an environmentalist," or, "I'm a saint," it matters not, no one is a noun.  We are being.  But even being becomes wasted in our illusions of otherness.  We place ourselves in a picture that is always not quite true.  It might be at times factual, but never true. 

 

So, being a world destroyer, or a world saver, either falls short and neither is what is.   Much has to be laid aside to be true, but nothing true can ever be put aside, only hidden behind our ideas and beliefs.   In being true, one needs no law except one, the one that cannot be written.   But, we will try to be what we are by becoming.   Can you see that this is the false wanting to be true?   Who, knowing self as all, will set out upon a struggle?   Being as other, we build fortresses of hypothetical otherness and prepare for battle, wondering why our worlds seem never to come to harmony.  Other is a fiction.  Only knowing self as silence, is the silence seen in all.  

I'm speechless... That was beautiful, and deep deep deep. Thank you.

 

People are a natural disaster; I can't help but laugh while sadly agreeing. 


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#59 Redneckdork

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 11:43 PM

Once we actually know what we are, our values will automatically change. Life will be spontaneous. The moment will give us our assignments. We are life.


The hardest part of knowing who we are, is looking into ourselves.

When I was part of society, I tried to play what ever part was necessary. I didn't really have my own values, I had shared values of those I was around.

I guess what I am trying to express is this, when around racist people so was I. I hated things, and people, for no reason of my own. My values were only what was accepted at the time I had them.

After all the shit I went through with a broken neck and cancer, I did take that good long look into myself. And here are a few things I learned.

People all look the same in the dark. I found that skin color DOES NOT make you a criminal, lazy, or worthless.

Physical handycaps exist in all of us.

Mental illness, affects us all. We all have mental issues that arise, however, society has LABELED most as normal. It is easier to accept.

Religion, is only a reason to hate. Not all catholic priests are pedephiles. 99.9 percent of Mormons only have one wife. And surprise! If Muslims all cut heads off, could you imagine how many headless bodies would be in our streets?

Fuckheads exist, in all nationalities, every skin color, every religion, and in every government.

If you believe the world is evil, guess what? It is! If you believe the world is good, then it is.

As many of you know, I am homeless by choice, I chose to leave societies bullshit teachings. I turned off all media and other brainwashing devices, and decided to let only MY LIFE EXPERIENCE form who I am.

If I could give all of you some advice, it would be this. Turn off the tv, the news, don't read the morning paper, and only trust what you see first hand. Try it for one day make it a point to unplug from society for just one day and I bet you will have a relaxing day.

Wow this really went all over, all I really wanted to say is this. Before we build any walls we need to drop the ones we all have around us, that we built ourselves.

Alders words are true. I just use my motto to say it.

HOMELESS BY CHOICE, AND FINNALY LIVING MY LIFE
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#60 Coopdog

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 03:10 AM

You all give me real hope for humanity. It amazes me how many like minded and like spirited people have congregated here. This community needs to spread their mindset and share their belief systems with the rest of the world as best we can and still keep our heads off the chopping block. Keep on doing what you do and thank you all for being just who you are. How a conversation like this turned out the way it did is a beautiful and spiritual thing.

 

Hats off to you all's thought processes and thank you for being in my life.

 

Peace...


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