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pf tek: extra water ? tips ?


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#1 Spark

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:49 PM

packing substrate too tightly will cause in slow colonization times.

i found that out today.

adding water to the verm first then rice flour is better ime.

also a good tip i learned.

#2 Hippie3

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:55 PM

the 1st 'tip' has been well known for many years now,
glad the news finally made it to you.

i disagree on the 2nd 'tip' tho',
imo it's more critical to get the rice properly hydrated
so i layer it, rice on top of verm
so the water goes thru the rice
before settling in the verm
then mix well.

#3 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 07:58 AM

I've heard people say found its 1 part flour/ 2 parts verm/ 1 1/2 parts water works much better. Maybe its just my area temps/humidity though.

#4 the_chosen_one

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 08:05 AM

i disagree on the 2nd 'tip' tho',
imo it's more critical to get the rice properly hydrated
so i layer it, rice on top of verm
so the water goes thru the rice
before settling in the verm
then mix well.


Exactly. :D

Doing one jar at a time batches also helps for proper and accurate hydration imo. I know many like to do bulk batches, but making one at a time helps insure a perfect cake every time.

#5 Hippie3

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 08:33 AM

I've heard people say found its 1 part flour/ 2 parts verm/ 1 1/2 parts water works much better. Maybe its just my area temps/humidity though.



i really doubt that works better.
got any evidence other than hearsay ?
the pf max fruiting formula
2 parts verm:1 part ground rice:1 part water
is perfection itself,
i've made 1,000s using it
and hundreds of my customers testify
it works damn good.

#6 fahtster

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 12:00 PM

i've seen plenty of evidence. it's like people doing a dunk prior to first flush... or why people dunk after the first and get a better 2nd flush. more water = more mushies... it's one of the reasons that a lot of cakes don't 'explode' until after a dunk. there is a thin line tho. just a bit more water after that point and they are too wet... giving the myc. a hard time eating thru it. have you ever tried it hip? or are you just saying that? just curious... I too have done plenty of cakes and seen the results of every one. more water gives better flushes. don't mean to step on your toes but i dont think that one should dispell something that, to me, obviously gives better flushes.

fahtster

#7 Hippie3

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 02:02 PM

your word is still just hearsay
until you post some proof buddy
the extra water is not needed to reach 100% colonization
and one can dunk after birthing
so extra water in the jars while colonizing
is just an extra problem to contend with,
far more noobs have trouble from mixes that are too wet
than too dry.

#8 MLBjammer

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 03:47 PM

One should never argue with Hip about PF cakes. It's like asking Don Rickles if he likes your outfit. You're gonna get burned.

#9 the_chosen_one

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 04:34 PM

:lol: I won't even go into the old skool recipe then!

#10 viraljimmy

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 04:42 PM

I like to mix the water and verm,
then stir in the rice flour,
coating the moist verm.

Seems to prevent clumps and
makes a more fluffy mix for loading
the jars loosely. I don't tamp down either.

Works nice for me.

#11 Socklessman

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 05:05 PM

I think it is a lot less work to mix the dry ingredients first, then the wet ingredients.'like in baking'

It helps to really make sure the mix is nice and well mixed, but either way wet ingredients then dry ingredients it will still work only just a little bit more elbow grease to make sure it is mixed well enough.

I once had some cakes I did and I shook the jar to make all the ingredients settle and when I cooked it it was packed and I put way too much water in them too. But I used it still and it was right up there with the other unpacked ones in colonization time.

But again I have no proof just my exp. and thats also hearsay.

#12 reefer

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 05:56 PM

I think it is a lot less work to mix the dry ingredients first, then the wet ingredients.'like in baking'


Thats the way I do it. I like to mix the verm and brf first, then gradually add water until it looks right to me. I believe in adding just enough water so that it colonizes completely. Once the cake is colonized, dunking will provide the moisture necessary for fruiting. Adding all of that water from the beginning can cause problems IMO.

Just goes to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

#13 fahtster

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:08 AM

your word is still just hearsay
until you post some proof buddy

sounds like a challenge to me. you don't think that dunk is a risk and 'extra' problem to contend with?? adding water prior to a sterilization is FAR less risky than adding water post birth.

far more noobs have trouble from mixes that are too wet
than too dry.

that kinda sounds like hearsay to me. i tend to think that more noobs have a problem with cakes stalling out due to dryness than a cake stalling due to wetness. this like any other act of growing takes a bit of working with to get just right... i just don't think you should tell people not to do something because you don't like to do it that way. i see no proof on your end either. I have no problem getting them to 100% colonization. wetter jars colonize WAY faster than a dry one. but your challenge is accepted and i plan to prove you wrong. ;)
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#14 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:19 AM

your word is still just hearsay
until you post some proof buddy
the extra water is not needed to reach 100% colonization
and one can dunk after birthing
so extra water in the jars while colonizing
is just an extra problem to contend with,
far more noobs have trouble from mixes that are too wet
than too dry.


I'll see what I can do.

#15 Hippie3

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:51 AM

i tend to think that more noobs have a problem with cakes stalling out due to dryness than a cake stalling due to wetness.


190,000+ posts here,
find me some examples if you can.

the most common cause of stalling by far
[excluding contamination]
is lack of air.

after 5 1/2+ years here
the few cases i recall of excessive drying
centered on grain jars and tyvek lids,
i can't think of any cases where pf cakes , properly made,
dried out invitro, causing stalling, before full colonization.

as to hearsay,
i'm not the one making a controversial claim here,
everyone knows beyond a doubt that the
standard pf tek formula works,
no extra water needed.

you are claiming, with the others,
that adding extra water to the formula
speeds up colonization
and increases yields-
it is incumbant on y'all to prove your claims.
i have nothing to prove, no claims made-
i'm merely skeptical
and calling you out on your claims.
show me.

#16 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:59 AM

my 2 cents>>>

My cool mist humidifier was on too high.
I thought to achieve 95% humidity would mean
"crank the thing up"

WRONG

pins delayed due to this yellow moisture
on top of them..

my prob.='d humidity too high

#17 MLBjammer

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:28 AM

You were growing a bulk substrate? If it's cakes, you want total humidity. But maybe I don't understand what you wrote.
Fahtster, that will be an intriguing experiment. Keep us posted.

#18 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:37 AM

bulk...I wish

no they were cakes.

cool mist goin straight in and water collecting on top, turning yellow and then

nice pin 2 black pin

#19 fungalsporesolution

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:55 AM

bulk...I wish

no they were cakes.

cool mist goin straight in and water collecting on top, turning yellow and then

nice pin 2 black pin


you can have TOO MUCH humidity?

oh god, i have alot to learn :special:

#20 fahtster

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 11:46 AM

by no means am i stating that the pf formula doesn't work... it's this "Max fruiting formula" BS that i'm talking about... i'll get into it more when i get back from my errands....

fahtster




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