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pf tek: extra water ? tips ?


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#41 Hippie3

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:39 PM

want know why this tub did so good?? .....
cuz i put an inner rez in with the popcorn.... whats in the rez??? water water water water water water water water water water water water water water water.


well actually it's more than just water,
the extra verm. counts too
because
it expands the mycelia mass
by quite a large amount
creating a much larger colony -
which can use that extra water
to give larger flushes.

that same quantity of water given
without the extra verm
would no doubt be detrimental,
so it's a bit more complicated than portrayed.

#42 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:53 PM

LOL
i'm far from being a newbie
yet i prefer dunking.
i don't want to create an impression that
dunking is just for newbs
and experienced growers have moved beyond it
'cause that ain't always the case.
i'll stack my expertise on cakes against anyone,
you, faht or even pf.
:lol:


I don't mean to create that impression either :D It really boils down to what works best for the grower and thier circumstances. You know it's funny cuz I think of my method as lazy :lol:! It's all a matter of finding one's nitch in this hobby no matter which tek is used. Confidence is one thing all us oldtimers have in common. That's why we argue :lol:.

#43 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:02 PM

Personally, my FOAF wets the rice (rough ground) with hot water first and lets it soak (with stirring) for 10-15 before mixing in the verm. He always shoots for "perfect" moisture...then adds a few big spoonfulls of dry verm. Too dry better than too moist is his mantra.

FOAF also pretty much only uses cakes for spawn, having fruited out maybe 10 of them total, yeah these many...months...since he became an "expert." Most cakes that he fruits as cakes get the "coffin casing" approach (buried in casing material).

Any of you guys ever do anything to mechanically shred cakes for spawn?

#44 Hippie3

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:05 PM

if i want brf for spawn
i make it in bags instead of jars
then one can knead it to break it up

#45 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:25 PM

FOAF throws the cakes in a clean gallon Ziploc for squishing/shredding. FOAF had total crap results with BRF in spawn bags until he started using the "pre-sealable" kind.

Agreed on the kneading them thing, though. Makes all the difference in colonization time, as well.

#46 Hippie3

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:37 PM

i find adding some pcorn helps the improve brf's growth in bags, prevents compaction, aerates better.

#47 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:51 AM

Holy shit, didn't mean to start a firestorm here. Peace and love y'all.

Anyway,

you are claiming [deleted for clarity]
that adding extra water to the formula
speeds up colonization .


Look, all I said was that it works better for a friend of mine. Not a huge claim. I did not saying you will get 34.8% faster colonization and 42.5% more fruit. I even qualified that not-so-impressive claim by saying maybe it was just the temp/humidity of my area.

Luckily though, my friend was trying to figure out how much better on her own anyway so she has a few control jars and few "wet" ones incubating now. The "wet" ones are showing about a 20% larger colonized area. I will try to get some pics by borrowing a camera as mine has gone awol. Come on now guys, don't go all dogmatic on me. There is always room for improvement and tweaking, thats what I love about this site is the "try it and tell us how it works" attitude I've seen as opposed to (in no way belittling the excellent and groundbreaking work done by PF) "this is The Way it is done, forever and ever. Amen" attitude.

#48 Hippie3

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

are you using the same isolated substrain
in all the test jars ?
if not then the results are meaningless
since genetic variations could cause differences

btw
this-

There is always room for improvement and tweaking

too is a 'dogmatic' statement, an assertion of opinion, nothing more.

#49 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:14 AM

The same spore syringe was used on all 6 jars. The syringe was a hawaiian purchased from a vender some time back. The same amount was injected into all jars, she does a slightly modified version of the PF jars but they were all modified in the same way. Sorry it can't get any more control but these were done before this was posted and it was more of a "hmm lets see" than a strictly controlled lab test. She would have done a bigger test sample if she knew I would be needing proof to post but that is what she has:eusa_doh:


Edit: They are all in the same incubator/carboard box as well. :P

#50 Hippie3

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:19 AM

well there you have it, any multispore germination contains multiple substrains so there's no way to ascertain if the differences in growth are due to the extra water or other factors such as slight genetic variations.

#51 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:26 AM

It seems highly unlikely that all three "wet" jars would be showing roughly the same amount of extra growth and all three standard jars would be lagging behind by roughly the same amout if that was a serious variable. I mean the scientific method is best of course, but occams razor and common sense are useful too.

#52 Hippie3

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:38 AM

lol
occams razor has nothing to do with it
and common sense neither.
and i don't see any pix either.
3 jars i can't see, done multispore,
yeah, sure, that settles it
:lol:

#53 Cryingblackoil

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:43 AM

Calm down, I am still at work :P I'll do my best, I was tearing apart my house last night to find my camera, I really hope its not lost. It was a nice one. :(

#54 Hippie3

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:47 AM

if that was a serious variable

you should know for a fact
that genetic variations are
a SERIOUS variable, make no mistake on that,
far more important than almost any other factor.

#55 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 10:08 AM

Dig on that. FOAF's work has shown some really marked differences in colonization speed, time to harvest, pinset density and total harvest weight working with different sub-strains.

Some recent B+ isolation work, for instance, showed one sub-strain that barely even wanted to fruit while another one just exploded. Easily 5x-8x the production of the "crap" isolate.

#56 beebopboy

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:01 AM

to be honest
just as you've never done a 'standard' pf cake
i've never made any with 1/3 c. instead of 1/4 c.


Dude, you are going rather dogmatic over something you've never tried before and have no experience with. You seem to be beyond scepticism and are now just down right discouraging the idea of improving the PF formula. Cryingblackoil's results do tell me that it should be looked into. Not disregarded as meaningless or even held as truth. The only way to know is to try.

#57 Hippie3

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:57 AM

don't lecture me, noob.
i've made more cakes than most, i know what i know.
i don't need you to tell me anything.

#58 nomoreusmc

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:23 PM

Just my .02 --
Wetter has always seemed to contam for me. I have done simalar experiments with automated chambers and the results that didn't contam where close to the same. When I did this we where still on the old board, I'll see if I can find it. This is the same experiment that taught me that simpler is better and the last experiment that I did with any automation.

#59 nomoreusmc

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

Dude, you are going rather dogmatic over something you've never tried before and have no experience with. You seem to be beyond scepticism and are now just down right discouraging the idea of improving the PF formula. Cryingblackoil's results do tell me that it should be looked into. Not disregarded as meaningless or even held as truth. The only way to know is to try.


Hippie has improved pf's formula, I have memorized his recipe as a matter of fact. I think hip has done more the PF, he has experimented alot, and stakes his name on his results and his teks. If his judgment is it won't work, why argue with him, and how do you know hip hasn't done something similar b4?

#60 beebopboy

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 02:38 PM

Hip, Im not lecturing you Im just tellin ya to should have a bit more of a open mind towards this and not just bash peoples' attempt to try this new idea when you said yourself you have no experience with this alteration of the recipe.

Your experience isnt being put on trial or anything

Sheesh. A little testy are we?




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