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Reactions to Charlottesville


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#1 Sidestreet

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:32 AM

I mean, yeah.  Fuck nazis.  That's easy.

 

But some of my friends are becoming hysterical and their positions border on saying that it's probably fine to crack someone's skull if they're nazi.  It's a little unnerving.  Not that I'd feel sorry for them.

 

And then there's the question of whether a demonstration where the nazis are carrying assault weapons strays from protected free speech into incitement.  The Supreme Court confirmed the right of nazis to gather in public, even in the middle of a largely Jewish community, in National Socialist Party of America v. Skokie.  But the Court didn't consider the implications of them doing it while brandishing big ass guns.

 

This is something different, something more.  And I think we may be about to see more of it.  And what if next time it's a group that doesn't already look like the 2nd Amendment demonstrators we've come to know?  You know what I mean.

 

 

 

 

Moreover, the “threat” posed by Nazis marching in Illinois, while symbolic and terrifying, especially in a town of Holocaust survivors, was not the threat that we are coming to your town with the power to kill you. Second Amendment enthusiasts will tell you that they don’t intend to deliver any message of this sort when they parade with semi-automatic weapons. Their message is merely that guns are outstanding.

http://www.slate.com...e_guns_won.html

 

 

Finally, there's what I consider to be a side-issue that's become intertwined with all that, the removal of Confederate statues.  It's suddenly an even bigger deal than it has been over the last few years.  The Charlottesville mess was borne of the removal of a statue.  Now there are more removals, even one performed illegally by a small mob, and calls for removals.  Some southerners see them as monuments to southern heritage more important than the obvious connection to slavery.  Others see them as despicable, to be destroyed and never seen again. 

 

I think some good third options have been put forward, like "conceptualizing" the statues in ways that honor more aspects of the history, or removing them to museums.

 

 

I'm interested to see what Topiates think about all this...


Edited by Sidestreet, 17 August 2017 - 06:00 AM.

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#2 scott_1971_h

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:16 AM

What was the "Jews will not replace us" shit?

Thought the dude who had to call off his own press release was quaint. But I think he might be mis-attributing (can you spell 'Projection') the anger he felt. They werent angry because he was white. They were angry because he wasnt particularly bright...

Yeah nazis (and KKK) are a little hard for me to get my head around, they really seem to take the cake...



#3 Spooner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:27 AM

Statues serve the primary purpose of providing pigeons a place to gather and shit on people.

Their secondary purpose is providing people a place to gather and talk shit about other people. 

My hero is better than your hero,  Statues do not educate people or enlighten anyone. 

Read a book, learn something in more depth than 140 characters or a plaque on a statue.

Pointless diversions,

Confederate statues celebrate Americans attempting to splinter off from the United States.

The attempt was unsuccessful, so Confederate Statues celebrate failure to destroy a Nation.

What a great way to spend money and waste energy celebrating unresolved issues instead of resolving them.


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#4 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:08 AM

And all the other nationalist symbols celebrate all the failed petty desires to separate a world that is forever one sphere (or plane, if that's what you believe).


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#5 jkdeth

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:54 AM

It happened just the way the deep state wanted it to happen. There were many opportunities to prevent this, government chose not too.
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#6 pharmer

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:58 AM

I see the statue-removers as Taliban.

 

The taliban don't like anything that does not comport with their belief system and remove it.

 

The statue-removers don't like anything that does not comport with their belief system and remove it.

 

Say what you will about the purity of the motives of the statue removers - their behaviors are on par with sixth century religious fanatics.

 

We are witnessing some very weird times, my friends.

 

I think we're being set up for a cataclysm. Possibly within three years, maybe sooner.

 

Curiously there's never any mention of what civic mechanisms have been gone through in the decision to remove these statues. They are public property on public lands, no? Did city councils poll the residents and realize the taxpayers of their municipality wanted the statues removed? I don't think so. It doesn't even appear that the cities are involved at all. Rather that self appointed thought police show up and announce they'll be removing the offending statues.

 

If I'm right about this two things are likely.

 

1. Municipalities are spineless and failing their mandate to protect their own property as stewards of the tax payers' monies should.

 

2. The outsiders who invade the town and do as they please are protected by unseen powers. That's a mystery and a frightening prospect.


Edited by pharmer, 17 August 2017 - 10:04 AM.

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#7 Spooner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:33 AM

Sometimes it seems people care more about their symbols than about flesh and blood people. 

Interesting that each person can attach what ever contradictory meaning they want to a hunk of stone or pile of metal, then die for it and kill for it.

I will stick with living things for now Cactus, Horned Toads, and on alternate Tuesdays, a few humans


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#8 jkdeth

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:53 AM

Concerning civil processes, Baltimore removed monuments during the night, after Charlottesville. That would be the mayor alone making the decision. Not something I agree with, as far as decision making processes go, but I have to admit it probably saved lives.
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#9 niemandgeist

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:39 PM

I recently viewed the HBO Vice news video about the Charlottesville protests and it was very frightening to see it all so up close and personal. A person from Vice was sort of embedded with the Nazis and following along with them so you get a very close-up view.

 

You can watch the video here at this link if you haven't yet seen it: http://digg.com/2017...esville-episode

 

It seems that we will be seeing more of this sort of thing and I wonder if even more violence is yet to come. What happened is a tragedy. The loss of a life is wrenching and the damage caused by the Nazis/white supremacists/nationalists/whatever else they can be called is horrifying.

 

The thing that worries me the most was Trump's response to the whole thing and how he went unscripted with a lot of what he said following this whole thing. I worry that this response is going to embolden the Nazis even more going into the future. I read recently that there are apparently even more protests/meetings of Nazi groups scheduled for all over the country in the near future, too.


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#10 Sidestreet

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:31 AM

Wow, that video is intense.  I just saw news that the main nazi from that Vice video is wanted on felony charges:

 

 

Christopher Cantwell, who is seen in the documentary denouncing Jews and declaring, “a lot more people are gonna die before we’re done here,” has two outstanding warrants stemming from the rally where a counterprotester was killed last weekend.

 

Officials from the Virginia Commonwealth Attorney’s Office said Thursday that Cantwell is wanted for illegal use of gases, and injury by caustic agent or explosive. Both are felony charges, officials said.

https://www.bostongl...sNRP/story.html

 

 

I guess they're headed to Boston next, but the mayor has banned firearms from the demonstration.

 

 

 

I see the statue-removers as Taliban.

 

I see where you're coming from and I have my own terrorist comparison to make: the guy who drove the car into the crowd is a flat-out terrorist.  Just yesterday, a van was used to kill multiple people in Spain and ISIS claimed responsibility.  It's a common terrorist tactic now.

 

http://www.aljazeera...7193535815.html


Edited by Sidestreet, 18 August 2017 - 07:34 AM.

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#11 niemandgeist

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 09:39 PM

I just saw this post and it's some good news about what happened in Boston: Counter protesters so heavily outnumbered the nazis that they cancelled their planned event midway through!

 

http://www.newsweek....-arrests-652387

 

A controversial Free Speech Rally in Boston fell apart Saturday afternoon when thousands of counter-protesters showed up and drowned it out. Journalists at the Boston Common, a downtown park, tweeted about an hour into the planned rally that many, if not all, of the attendees left the bandstand where they were due to hear speeches from several prominent conservative figures.

 

The Free Speech Rally organizers had permits to hold their event from noon to 2 p.m. local time on Saturday. But as of about 1:30 p.m., police on scene were dealing mostly with counter-protesters. The free speech group had left.

 

"I didn't realize how unplanned of an event it was going to be," speaker Samson Racioppi told WCVB. "I really think it was supposed to be a good event by the organizers, but it kinda fell apart."

 

 

rts1cgf4.jpg

A large crowd of people march towards the Boston Common to protest the Free Speech Rally in Boston on August 19, 2017. Stephanie Keith/Reuters

An estimated 15,000 counter-protesters carrying signs, anti-Trump gear, water bottles and more marched toward the park Saturday morning to meet roughly 50 free speech activists gathered in the bandstand, according to the Boston Globe. The demonstrations were likely getting more attention than normal because of last weekend's incidents in Charlottesville, Virginia, where a group of white nationalists gathered to fight the removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee and kicked off a series of counter-protests that ultimately left three people dead.

 

The free speech activists denounced the violence in Charlottesville earlier in the week on their Facebook page, writing that "we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry." But city officials seemed concerned all the same. Mayor Marty Walsh, for example, tweeted that he wanted everyone to be peaceful and "stand together against intolerance."

 

Regardless, the attendees Saturday didn't really get the chance to speak. Reporters like Tyler Kingkade of BuzzFeed tweeted that the flood of counter-protesters was too loud. They asked the free speech group "where's your rally?" according to New York Times reporter Katharine Seelye.

 

At 1:30 p.m., the Boston police department tweeted that the Free Speech Rally was over. It wasn't clear why the event was called off, but scheduled speaker Joe Biggs retweeted a message reading "We're being blocked by 30k AltLeft agitators. Welcome to fascist America." Alt-right figure Mike Cernovich wrote that "principles are nice and all but people are apes, and in the end numbers, visuals, and optics control."

 

As of about 2 p.m. Saturday, officers were trying to contain counter-protesters, even arresting some, according to NBC Boston reporter Abbey Niezgoda. It wasn't immediately clear how many people had been detained.


Edited by niemandgeist, 19 August 2017 - 09:40 PM.


#12 pharmer

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 09:54 PM

Wow, that video is intense.  I just saw news that the main nazi from that Vice video is wanted on felony charges:

 

 

Christopher Cantwell, who is seen in the documentary denouncing Jews and declaring, “a lot more people are gonna die before we’re done here,” has two outstanding warrants stemming from the rally where a counterprotester was killed last weekend.

 

Officials from the Virginia Commonwealth Attorney’s Office said Thursday that Cantwell is wanted for illegal use of gases, and injury by caustic agent or explosive. Both are felony charges, officials said.

https://www.bostongl...sNRP/story.html

 

 

I guess they're headed to Boston next, but the mayor has banned firearms from the demonstration.

 

 

 

I see the statue-removers as Taliban.

 

I see where you're coming from and I have my own terrorist comparison to make: the guy who drove the car into the crowd is a flat-out terrorist.  Just yesterday, a van was used to kill multiple people in Spain and ISIS claimed responsibility.  It's a common terrorist tactic now.

 

http://www.aljazeera...7193535815.html

I will agree he's a terrorist if he's found to be sane. Frankly I don't think many people involved in these rallies are in their right minds. A sickness has infected many people. I blame the media, of all types. DIVIDE is the name of the money making game these days. I don't claim to know the mechanics of exactly how the media moguls profit by this ugliness but they must or they'd get out of the business.

 

I also think we're looking at a high temperature but low grade war. The first casualty of war is truth. I dare anybody to listen to the twenty four hour news cycle after today's whatever the fuck it was and believe that even 50% of what they heard was true. NO. Trust Nobody to give you honest information. Not Limbaugh. Not Rachel Madow. Not CBS. Not Breitbart. Not Kos. Frankly I'm revolted by the flat out lies told by all these people, and the liars they enable.

 

OK, another analogy or comparison. What we have going on right in front of our eyes, right here in this country, is a (Name your Color) Color Revolution. A staged, managed, instigated, bought and paid for attempt to collapse the existing society and rebrand the existing government with a new face and horrifying authoritarian dystopia.

 

Be very careful what you ask for, friends. You just might get it. And then you'll have to live with it. Some of us are lucky enough to see our finish lines. Honestly, I'm glad to be moving on. Young people and those who bring this on themselves will get to reap their whirlwind.


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#13 Spooner

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 09:55 PM

Worshiping idols does not have a great track record, from the golden calf to golden crosses.  Love thy neighbor QED



#14 jkdeth

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 10:15 PM

The country is in a stalemate, or at least perpetual check. The goal is control, always has been. For me that's the saddest part, freedom will be surrendered in the name of peace. A further step towards a country of elites and licensed, government approved working class, any refused to fit in demonized and re educated or relegated to forced labor camps in the name of community service.

#15 August West

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:48 PM

 

 

I'm interested to see what Topiates think about all this...

 

There's a whole lot of context missing from most of the "coverage" that I've seen. To name just one major flaw, I've hardly seen any mention of the violence committed by the non-statue side (I'll call them that for now).

 

At it's worst, it makes me think of the eastern front in WWII - the Communists vs. the Fascists...a totalitarian victor either way.



#16 Alder Logs

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:03 AM

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#17 August West

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:31 AM

For my money, this is the most trite, contextless, nuance-lacking, history deprived (how do you like those clumsy, perhaps made up, adjectives?) Jimmy Dore video that you've posted here (It should be noted, that I have only watched a few). The idea that in five minutes a clip of a speech summarizing the civil can be shown and then critiqued by commentators is disingenuous at best.

 

I'm guessing that zero of these people, perhaps even the bureaucrat from New Orleans (btw, I love that the speech, though it had some substantial thoughts, had the flag of the USA in shot the whole time - oh, the irony) know that Lincoln's first choice to lead the Union force was Robert E. Lee.tyran

 

Why are self-proclaimed progressives making apologies for ANY statues to tyrants?


Edited by August West, 20 August 2017 - 12:43 AM.


#18 morvis

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 07:16 AM

Something smells off about Charlottesville.

 

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