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Life after death?


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#61 DonShadow

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:17 AM

What other truth can I proclaim beyond "I am."

Maybe more accurate to say "it is", and "it" is growing.

So, while the words are ever suspect, the possibility to convey, or any attempt to convey, an actuality, depends on both the source and the destination of the communication.

Exactly! But the source and destination are never stationary.

I can talk about it, but any answer would be in discovery. Pure being is "no-thingness".

Discovery, yes, what else is there besides dis-covering (aka evolution). I don't agree about no-thingness though. If there could be such a thing as "pure" being, it must not exclude anything. What's wrong with thingyness, as long as it never stops increasing?

Or, is Love, Being, and Nothingness, the Holy Trinity?

Playing devil's advocate here, but I hope you're right and there is not a missing corner to this shape. Maybe the action of the triangle creates the illusion of the 4th corner.

Near Death Experiences are like Near Pregnancy Experiences.
You either are or you are not, there is no near about it.


As if! This is exactly the source of my point. Life, death, and consciousness (perhaps Awareness also) are all nodes on a spectrum. Consider birth defects, fetal alcohol syndrome, autism, twins, hermaphroditism, lost limbs, blindess etc... See "I am a Strange Loop" by Douglas Hofstadter and "In the Land of Silence and Darkness" (Herzog film)

And what of man and the botanical bride? Call me crazy but this union seems to show promise of blurring the edges of life and death a little!

Look at a sheet of graphing paper. Nice, neat, perfectly spaced 90 degree angles, right? Wrong, get out the microscope. Are patterns really there or do we project them? Probably both.

Edited by DonShadow, 15 September 2017 - 12:14 PM.

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#62 MushPuppy

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:25 PM



I was wondering if anyone here believes in life after death? If so would you care to share why or why not?


Camirae,

First off, condolences for your losses. It's never easy and always brings us back to this fundamental existential question.

I'm with Heirloom in that there is a scientific aspect to my spiritual belief on the subject. Believe it or not, Albert Einstein is actually one of my most influential spiritual Gurus, by no conscious intention of his own I am sure! He was able to sum up his greatest spiritual lesson - as I eventually grokked it to be - in the simplest of equations:

E=mc2

The fundamental truth is that energy can convert to mass (matter) and mass can convert to energy, but energy can never be destroyed.

The following excerpt from a Scientific American article sums it up nicely:

"The law of conservation of energy, also known as the first law of thermodynamics, states that the energy of a closed system must remain constant—it can neither increase nor decrease without interference from outside. The universe itself is a closed system, so the total amount of energy in existence has always been the same. The forms that energy takes, however, are constantly changing."

https://www.scientif...-nor-destroyed/

I don't pretend to have an answer for what exactly happens to our conscious mind, personality or soul once our physical bodies stop breathing and our hearts stop pumping. I do believe that every aspect of our being - physical and otherwise, consist of pure energy.

If you consider that "The forms that energy takes [...] are constantly changing", it's not difficult to imagine a potential explanation for most phenomena. Spirits, ghosts, etc., among others.

Is there life after death? You betcha! Because there really is no such thing as death. Only transformation and renewal.

My 2 cents. Peace.
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#63 MushPuppy

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:33 PM

Another example of our intense curiosity (and fear) of the cycle of "life" and "death".

http://www.askamathe...ns-when-we-die/
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#64 whirledpeas

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:24 PM

 

I was wondering if anyone here believes in life after death? If so would you care to share why or why not?


Camirae,

First off, condolences for your losses. It's never easy and always brings us back to this fundamental existential question.

I'm with Heirloom in that there is a scientific aspect to my spiritual belief on the subject. Believe it or not, Albert Einstein is actually one of my most influential spiritual Gurus, by no conscious intention of his own I am sure! He was able to sum up his greatest spiritual lesson - as I eventually grokked it to be - in the simplest of equations:

E=mc2

The fundamental truth is that energy can convert to mass (matter) and mass can convert to energy, but energy can never be destroyed.

The following excerpt from a Scientific American article sums it up nicely:

"The law of conservation of energy, also known as the first law of thermodynamics, states that the energy of a closed system must remain constant—it can neither increase nor decrease without interference from outside. The universe itself is a closed system, so the total amount of energy in existence has always been the same. The forms that energy takes, however, are constantly changing."

https://www.scientif...-nor-destroyed/

I don't pretend to have an answer for what exactly happens to our conscious mind, personality or soul once our physical bodies stop breathing and our hearts stop pumping. I do believe that every aspect of our being - physical and otherwise, consist of pure energy.

If you consider that "The forms that energy takes [...] are constantly changing", it's not difficult to imagine a potential explanation for most phenomena. Spirits, ghosts, etc., among others.

Is there life after death? You betcha! Because there really is no such thing as death. Only transformation and renewal.

My 2 cents. Peace.

 

 

Thank you mushpuppy... i lost track of this thread because, well i juts got lost in here and i appreciate all the feedback.



#65 Spooner

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:34 AM

E=mc2

Well c2 is just a constant, the speed of light squared

A constant is just a finite number used to convert from one scale to another like inches to centimeters, it does not alter the underlieing quantity

So we can basically discard it, and we are left with simply Energy=mass

These are just two different ways of measuring the same thing, (like electricity and magnetism, or as it is now called electromagnetism)

 

But as we learned from Lawrence Krauss, in A Universe From Nothing, empty space is actually a teeming cauldron of pairs of virtual particles and antiparticles pulsating in and out of existence in a time frame to fast to measure

This is not a problem because the net effect is always zero

However, at the event horizon of a black hole, Hawking has shown that since the particle has mass, and the antiparticle has negative mass they react slightly differently, the particle with positive mass escapes the black hole while the antiparticle with negative mass falls into the black hole, decreasing the mass of the black hole. 

Again net zero, but this accounts for all the positive matter in the Universe that we perceive and measure, which is counterbalanced by the negative mass sucked into the black hole.

 

Hawking

[Direct Link]

 

Krauss starts at 2:15

[Direct Link]

 

The implication is that the universe as we know it is just an artifact of virtual particles at the event horizon of a black hole, as is the concept of time itself.

 

(Spooner needs to visit earth again soon.)


Edited by Spooner, 03 October 2017 - 08:38 AM.


#66 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:49 AM

What is Spooner, Earth?

 

c is an average of what has never been measurable as a constant.   An average has been declared a constant, but does this make it so?   Einstein thought it so, which probably made believing in quantum mechanics tough for him.   In the end, nothing seems to be as it seems, and everything is left to change via perspective.  No perspective remains stationary.   Can we keep our footing?

 

The great mathturbators have all accepted F = G m1 m2 / r2.   For this mind, this law is a fallacy, is an errant assumption.   The idea that electricity and magnetism make up all of what electricity is is also incomplete, as it ignores its existence in its basic state of potential, as voltage alone.   We see it when it becomes current, and put all our stock in this perspective.    Yes, all space appears to be potential, but we have no meter up to measuring it.   So, it baffles us to the point of ignoring it, for we cannot quantify it.  


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#67 Samwise

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:06 PM

A few years ago when I was heavily into astral projection and lucid dreaming I had a bizarre experience. I had a very vivid and unusual dream, where I encountered the father of a good friend of my sister's, who had died two days previously. Now while I to was friendly with this person, the father I had only met a few times, and he wasn't someone I was in any way close too, knew well or ever really thought about if I'm honest. I'm stating this as in a way, (due to confirmation bias) I would expect it would be more likely to have dreams with deceased friends or relatives.

 

In this dream, I encountered this guy, he was lying on the couch in my family home living room (I was living and working elsewhere) and he seemed to be dazed and confused, I got the impression he did not know where he was or what was going on. For whatever reason I got the strong impression I needed to comfort and reassure him, I put my hand on his forehead and told he and his family would be ok. It was only later that I stumbled across dream researcher's Ryan Hurd's classifications of "Big dreams"...those certain dreaming events in life that are far above and beyond "normal" dreaming in terms of depth and impact. Everything about that dream...interestingly including the physical contact...seemed to align it as one of these dreams, and unlike many dreams I've had, I've never forgotten it. My sister told her friend and she said how I described him was very similar to the state he was in the week before he died (maybe not that profound). Personally, this was an interesting outlier experience for me. Talking to more esoteric people, they consider this example a classical soul retrieval/assistance exercise...that I was exploring my consciousness at the time through astral projection and lucid dreaming exercises so I was more open to such things.

 

Earlier this year I had some breakthrough experiences with 5-MeO-DMT in the form of Bufo alvarius toad secretion. These experiences would turn out to be the most profound and earth shattering of my life to date. Scientifically speaking, I underwent what would be classified as a "complete mystical experience", following inhalation of the vapour, which within a few seconds completely annihilated my individual concept of self. While it is very hard to put this experience into words, among other things I experienced absolute, boundless infinity, complete cosmic oneness with the universe, and resonated with a state of universal consciousness. This universal consciousness/infinity may be somewhat easier in some respects to simply label "God" and it greatly surprises me to say this is the best approximation of what I encountered, along with the realisation that I am...EVERYTHING is...that, and a part of that. It really seems to me, in the wake of these experiences...the insights of which have remained with me...rather than being an individual being having this experience of consciousness, in fact I'm an individual facet of a much, much greater consciousness, having this unique, individual, subjective experience. Of course I cannot "prove" this to anyone else, and can't say I have any interest in doing so...this is something that can only be experienced directly. But it took me by surprise, I was not brought up in a religious household, always considered myself agnostic, and am a man of science.

 

Regarding what happens at death, I'm not sure what happens, but in a sense I'm more agnostic about what may happen than I've ever been. I assure you no one can know, or does know for sure, despite their assertions. I do find it a little funny when people express fear about existing in a purposeless purgatory for all eternity on death of the body. This seems to be quite the assumptive leap, in claiming to know how the afterlife works (there's a great deal we don't know about life itself, including perhaps the greatest mystery of all, consciousness). Looking at the Near Death Experiences, they take the view that life is an experience by which we learn, expand, grow, evolve, love. If there is anything more after life, I don't see why this process would end (and going back to a previous point, I do find the Christian conception of Heaven far, far worse as that sounds very dull to me...non-existence sounds better).

 

Some musings on death (and the afterlife) by 5-MeO-DMT psychonaut Dr Martin Ball that may be of interest.

 

 

Reset: How have your psychedelic experiences [with 5-MeO-DMT] affected your relationship to the idea of dying? Are you afraid of death?

 

MB: Oh, not at all. I feel like I’ve been through death many times with 5-meO. I understand the process. I enjoy it. It’s like, “Oh, I just get to let go!” Death is the ultimate thing that you don’t need to do anything about — you just let it happen to you.

 

Before my first 5-meO-DMT experience, I used to wonder a lot about, “Well, is there an afterlife, or is there reincarnation, or is death the end of the experience?” With my acceptance of the reality that everything is God — I’m God, you’re God, it’s all God, all the time — the idea that I could somehow destroy myself just became laughable. So, death isn’t necessarily the end, but it is the end of my individual experience as Martin. That’s kind of sad, because I enjoy the experience of being Martin, but it’s also kind of liberating, because life comes with all kinds of hardships, responsibilities, and things you need to do moment-to-moment and day-by-day. It puts it more into the context of, this is all just a gift, because this is my one opportunity to experience life as Martin. Maybe I should just enjoy it, make the most out of it. And since I know that everything is God, I’m not really afraid of anything at this point. I’m not really looking for physical pain or suffering, but I don’t have unnecessary anxieties, I don’t worry about things anymore. I’m not concerned about the state of my soul or spirit anymore.

 

I also don’t believe in an afterlife, because that’s going to be the end of Martin. Martin is just a character that’s held together by this body that I’m inhabiting at this moment, and when this body’s gone, Martin is gone. And that’s great, because that means all of Martin’s concerns are gone as well. It’s kind of like the eternal vacation, in a sense. But, see, the irony is that even though Martin is gone, the true I doesn’t ever go anywhere, because God is reality, and just because Martin disappears doesn’t mean reality is going to disappear. I am still here. I’ve always been here. I always will be here. It’s just that one life, that precious gift of experiencing myself as a human being, as this particular person known as Martin — that will be done. That will be over. That makes it precious! It makes it infinitely valuable. And from the personal perspective as well as the God perspective, I can say, “Look, I went to all this trouble to evolve this universe and evolve human beings so that I could experience myself as this one person for one life.” This is a statement that’s true for everyone, so I’m not claiming that it’s unique for the Martin character, but from my perspective as Martin, that’s a true statement: Wow, I must really love myself a lot to give myself this gift and this experience… and to put an expiration date on it! Because without an expiration date, nothing has value or meaning. Because everything is God, nothing is any more valuable than anything else, but from the individual, embodied perspective, whether I have a glass of water when I’m thirsty — that becomes very, very valuable, because there are energetic consequences for this embodiment based on what I experience within my reality and what is available to me. So everything becomes so, so precious. The beauty and the horror, it’s all something to savor. Everything is beautiful, no matter how horrible it is. I just love it — I love being alive. I love being, and I love everything and everyone. It’s so liberating just to love everyone rather than to have conditions on it… which doesn’t necessarily mean that I personally like everyone, but I’ve become very comfortable with the fact that I actually love everyone, because I love myself. And if I’m God, and if everyone is God, then that means I love everyone.


Edited by Samwise, 03 October 2017 - 12:09 PM.

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#68 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:16 PM

Thank you, Samwise.


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 October 2017 - 01:16 PM.


#69 elfstone

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:01 AM

My son and I were once tripping on about 270ug of LSD when the Wind of the Spirit fully descended upon us and he commented “that wind is going to get us” indicating that all forms dissolve and disperse in the wind of time. I replied, “you are still identifying with the form, you are the wind.” There is way more to us than we know. When this is seen clearly there is an end to all fear. There is something in us that has never been born and will never die. There are those who see this and those who do not.
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#70 Spooner

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:05 PM

Camirae, perhaps your son has finally found serenity and is fully at peace having left worldly cares behind.

Take it as a good sign of contentment..


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#71 Justintime

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:33 PM


Have been out of my body on many occasions. First time was my consciousness watching my Mom from a tree pushing me down the road in a pram as I slept. They ( My Mom and my body ) were about thirty meters away. So its kind of a no brainer that we exist without our bodies.

#72 Guy1298

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:57 PM

There's something in being aware. Hidden in the fact of it, its reality and reality itself here and now, there is communicated fully that existence never ceases...

Who knows what this says about loved ones dying. Maybe it says that loved ones were never loved ones. What do we Love?

Edited by Guy1298, 31 May 2018 - 12:00 AM.


#73 Alder Logs

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:14 AM

Nothing is as we call it or how we think of it.  It is as it is, beyond our limitations.  



#74 Guy1298

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 10:18 AM

Probably right.

#75 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 03:46 PM

I'm only a little way into this, but decided to drop it here anyway.  It's more on topic than I usually am.

 

[Direct Link]


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#76 Spooner

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:42 PM

Life after death is one perspective, the other is Life before birth.

Seems the answer is the same either way.


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