58 replies to this topic

[Heirloom]

I am bored and thought I'd like to get some feedback on this idea just for the sake of discussion.

Take some water sugar yeast mix, ferment to the limit. Take that alcoholic mix freeze it ( zero F ) , the alcohol won't freeze the water will. Remove the ice, now you got an alcohol content of 30-35%. I know this has been used to make 30-35% alcohol from beer.

take the 30-35% alcohol mix add salt . The salt won't dissolve in alcohol but it will in water. The salt disolves in the water of the alcohol mix. The salt water is much more dense than alcohol and sinks to the bottom. There is a thin line that can be seen separating the dense salt water from the lighter alcohol. A food coloring that is water soluble but not alcohol soluble would make this easier to see.

The alcohol can be further refined using another water absorbing agent like Epsom salt or zeolite and run through a carbon filter to refine it more.

I am confident tis can eliminate the need for a still.

Anyone heard of anybody doing this?

I suppose I should do a small experiment to prove this method can work , with winter coming on I could use the natural cold to do the first concentration of the alcohol then move on to the salt separation stage.

peace

Edited by Heirloom , 15 September 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[Justintime]

Love to see this work.

[Juthro]

I'll pull up a chair, but I have some concern with the salting idea. Alcohol has a great thirst for water, and it is damn near imposable to get it all out.

Not trying to discourage your attempt HS, just trying to point out a potential problem.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

here is a company that sells all kinds of distilling equipment, if your interested at looking https://brewhaus.com/

[phlegmbae]

Good luck with that! I'd like to hear if that works too!

Edited by phlegmbae, 15 September 2017 - 02:12 PM.

[Heirloom]

I got brewing equipment need to get a wine yeast to get a high alcohol content and a bag of sugar.. Thinking of doing 5 gallons as a test run. I'll freeze concentrate in 1 gallon plastic jugs, my freezer won't hold 5 gallons buckets

You brewers known about freeze concentrating that's the first way I'll try to concentrate the alcohol first with salt separation being the second process.

"Fractional freezing can be used as a simple method to increase the alcohol concentration in fermented alcoholic beverages, a process sometimes called freeze distillation. Examples are applejack, made from hard cider, and ice beer. In practice, while not able to produce an alcohol concentration comparable to distillation, this technique can achieve some concentration with far less effort than any practical distillation apparatus would require. The danger of freeze distillation of alcoholic beverages, is that unlike heat distillation, where the methanol and other impurities can be separated from the finished product, freeze distillation does not remove them. Thus the ratio of impurities may be increased compared to the total volume of the beverage. This concentration may cause side effects to the drinker, leading to intense hangovers"https://en.wikipedia...tional_freezing

While this should work I don't see it being used much since any methanol produced will be concentrated in the final product. Might be ok for solvent use or maybe burning.

Edited by Heirloom , 15 September 2017 - 02:02 PM.

[Juthro]

I'm glad you mentioned the methanol problem, Heirloom. I was going to but I didn't want to seem like I was shooting down your plans.

I'm looking forward to seeing your results.

Are you familure with Zeolite (aka molecular sieve) for drying the last bit of water out of the alcohol? They are also reusable, you just have to dry them in an oven first.

A lot of the big refinery plants that commercially make alcohol for fuel use corn grits for the last bit of drying. Once used, the grits get recycled into the next mash and are fermented into more alcohol

http://homedistiller...till/polish/dry

[Spooner]

Interesting, but seems like a lot of work to avoid the simple heat distallation process.  

Basically just a coil of copper tubing attached to a tea kettle should transfer enough heat in air, without a water jacket to cool enough for condensation.

How much does a small roll of 1/4" copper tubing cost these days anyway.

If your Pressure cooker has a bobbing weight, seems like you could attach the copper tubing pretty easily to that vent stub.

[Heirloom]

Justro thanks, I don't know enough about brewing and can always use some pointers. I got a bag of zeolite. Cleaned everything just waiting on my yeast in the mail, cost the same but I don't need to drive and hour to pick it up.

Spooner I could use a my pc to distill might do that in the future, I probably could use a 2 gallons a year at most for extracting med mushrooms and plants a hobby.

I got a small distillation apparatus more like the glass/flasks/condenser on seen in Hawkeys tent on Mash, not really feasible.


I will probably find out it's more work than its worth I will know I tried. Might motivate me to make a few bottles of beer or a wine for some day that's special. going to look at some brewing sites to see if I might enjoy making a beverage.

I am open to advise, I know some of you got experience brewing& making wine.

peace

Edited by Heirloom , 15 September 2017 - 05:05 PM.

[Juthro]

Here is a cool setup (but high $) that allows you to produce very high purity at a much faster rate then pot stills (which achieve around 60%ABV). Note that this guy is producing 94 -95% pure alcohol at this rate, 95% being as pure as your going to get out of a still.

I would consider being good for a whole year if santa wanted to bring me one of these....

[Direct Link]

I know its not really what your going after, but it is so damn cool :)

Edited by Juthro, 15 September 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Heirloom]

That's a serious machine

[Pan1]

i tried freezer concentration before to make apple jacks, it maybe turned my 10% brew into 20% but im guessing it was it was much weaker than that maybe 15%. but you get figured out how to make 30%+ alcohol from the freezer, please do share, ive only tried it the once.

[Heirloom]

I got this beer/wine kit 14 years ago as a gift and need to give it a try. I saw the 30% online so it might be less than accurate. I think I was to optimistic in my estimation of the outcome. Gotta try, I need another hobby to relax me 3 or 4 times a year. Brewing is something I have wanted to do for the last 40 years or so.

peace

[Juthro]

I find home brewing very rewarding myself. I think you would enjoy it Heirloom

[Justintime]

Dry Ice? Not sure if you can use it. I worked at a winery for a while and they got it in in big cylinders. Not sure what they used it for but I'd see the wine chemist shoot some into a bucket and take into the lab to do tests with the wine. Perhaps he mixed it with the wine to remove the water content so he could get an accurate alcohol reading. You might search " Dry ice use in viticulture" or "Using dry ice to calculate alcohol content".

I'm sure some place nearby that uses it would sell you a bucket of it...if you could find a supplier. But that might detract from the simplicity of what you're trying to achieve.

[fungi2bwith]

I know you are talking about a stilless alcohol extract....but most of us here should have pressure cookers that can easily be converted to a still.

 

Still interested in seeing your results though

 

[Direct Link]

[Heirloom]

Thanks for all the input. I found something on dry ice and freezing. I got 20 feet of copper tubing I might try traditional distilling a pressure cooker would be ideal.

Cold soak is a pre-fermentation process in which grape must is held at low (≤10°C, ≤50°F) temperatures. There are various ways to execute a cold soak step in wine production:
•Placing a holding vessel (i.e., a macrobin) in a cool, ambient environment
•Use of tank temperature control
•Use of dry ice

Cold soaking grape must is believed to increase anthocyanin extraction pre-fermentation. Increasing anthocyanin extraction would make stabilization reactions more favorable, pushing equilibrium to building stable anthocyanin-complexes through and after fermentation

The variety evaluated was Merlot, and musts were frozen with dry ice. An increase in anthocyanin concentration by 50% and increase in overall tannin concentration by 52% was found in finished wines in which grape must had been frozen pre-fermentation, compared to an untreated grape must, control wines (Couasnon 1999, Sacchi et al. 2005*). Freezing may have a greater effect on anthocyanin concentration, as freezing physically causes berry cells to burst and release its contents."
https://psuwineandgr...olor-stability/

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Edited by Heirloom , 16 September 2017 - 06:17 PM.

[Heirloom]

I'm fermenting here's my yeast on my mag stirrer

I used montrachet yeast I'm ordering some Turbo yeast for the next batch. Still got a lot to learn. I think I will need to put together a still to get the high quality I require. I'm going to do this as I mentioned separating the water and alcohol with freezing then salting out the water.

I have no idea how much the alcohol by volume will be probably not as high as I hoped for.This will give me a little experience while I get a still together. I will be happy with 2 gallons of lab grade solvent. I will try a drink of this when its done just to taste. I do intend on making something good to drink just haven't decided what to try.

Here's a video on salting alcohol this demonstration is done with methanol ( poison alcohol) but salting works with ethanol just the same. When I finish this experiment I'll get back and show the alcohol content. lots to learn , its kinda fun.

I welcome any comments and useful tips, this is my first attempt and everyone in this forum knows way more than I do. peace

[Direct Link]

[coorsmikey]

Hey Brother! If you're sodering skill are anything like the rest of the stuff you do. And if your want continue to with your product 100% made at home by Heirloom. Check out this lil one gallon baby!

[phlegmbae]

With all the apple orchards around here. What do you think we do? Besides helping ourself to our neighbors forbidden fruit? Hell! They know it. They know me. They love it. I share it with them! They own many, many acres of apple orchards. Their kids, and grand kids come by to help pick the apples! They always leave the Missus ta home though. Then the cookin starts way back in that ole Spy apple orchard where noone goes anymore. First stuff comes, and there's a lot of bonfire ass kickin goin on. Then we all holler at the apples, then the moon. Then we all concoct some cock-a may-me excuse for the woman, for coming home in the morning all covered with leaves, and dirt. Smellin like goats!   

[Heirloom]

I like that still 1 gallon is perfect for my needs. Love to give out pints & quarts of real moonshine. I can get some apples lots of trees here and some people would be glad to get them picked so they don't end up with a yard of apples on the ground. I bet a homemade hard cider is good.

thanks