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Cogitate On This...


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#1 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:01 PM

"Any proposition containing the word 'is' creates a linguistic structural confusion which will eventually give birth to serious fallacies." Alfred Korzybski.

And I would add:"including this one."

"The linguistic symbols we call 'words' helps us classify similar things, but also lulls us into forgetting their differences." - Robert Anto Wilson
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#2 DonShadow

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:57 AM

Is reality only a series of resonating ideas and images, or is it not? There's just enough time to think everything. There's just enough time to kill everything. What will remain after the last thought has been "thunk"?

Edited by DonShadow, 28 September 2017 - 07:00 AM.


#3 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:08 AM

You, the true you, is reality.  You are what is.  Thoughts and words are only about what is.   Any thought or symbol about you, is not you.  So, what has to be let go to be true and real?   

 

Q1.  Are YOU ready for that letting go?  

 

A1.  Yes, I already am what I am.

 

A2.  No, I prefer my  thoughts and ideas of what I am.   It's all I have ever known.   Letting go scares these thoughts and ideas, because they think they are the true me.


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#4 DonShadow

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:47 AM

While in a certain sense I agree, words like True and Real make me a bit skeptical. If the Self, or the "I" is the center of the mandala, the fount from which all things spill forth, does that not mean I am both subject and object? If so, why is it necessary to purge the object? Objects are great companions and bring colour and definition to the solipsistic homogenous self-world.

#5 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:53 AM

The what is, is.   Are we all of it, or just some separate piece of it?  It's a question for discovery, not for words.   Identified as part, will we ever know whole?  


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#6 DonShadow

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:37 AM

Theoretically speaking yes, of course I see that divisions are arbitrary abstractions, but beauty needs hard edges. Definitions bring, well, definition, this is the driving spirit of all artistic endeavours. Of course I want to reach wholeness, but beauty is to be found in fragmentation, in the light that leaks through the cracks.
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#7 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:42 PM

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#8 Spooner

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:51 PM

Bill Clinton had trouble with that word also.   :biggrin: 


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#9 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

Bill Clinton had trouble with that word also.   :biggrin:

 

 

The same thought occurred to my twisted mind.


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#10 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:19 PM

I believe Alder, if I may be so bold, is saying something akin to the fact that we put boundaries around the things we perceive as the "edges" and then use our language as a means of creating a fence around that "peice" and call it a thing.

Because we do this, and it is "convenient" we call this fencing in bits of the whole as "thinking".

Eventually we can't recall there ever was a "whole".

Possibly. fnord.
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#11 pharmer

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:55 AM

We tend to think as if we live our whole lives inside a spherical glass house.

 

We know the things that are near, we may even make them with our own hands.

 

We can see the things outside the glass but only as far the curve of the land and the hills and trees allow.

 

We guess and conjecture at what's out there but will not and cannot know for sure until we're freed of the glass

 

Being human we have a gift for hubris and premature self congratulation and this tends to overflow like tidal surges into the language.

 

"language is the liquid

that we're all dissolved in

great for solving problems

after it creates a problem"

 

Modest Mouse "Blame it on the Tetons"

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by pharmer, 29 September 2017 - 07:57 AM.

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#12 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:23 AM

I guess our problem many times is confusing the Map with the Territory...


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#13 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:32 AM

... and perhaps failing to see we have also been the cartographer.

 

 

You can't get there from here (when here is all there is).


Edited by Alder Logs, 02 October 2017 - 09:34 AM.

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#14 DonShadow

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:57 AM

I understand what y'all are saying. I think McLuhan would say that the development of symbol-based language is a kind of virus. The manipulation of symbols and lingually-intonated "mouth noises" is a very clunky way of communicating. A subtly different evolutionary path may have seen the development of a kind of communication that more closely resembles "communion" or telepathy, the direct transmission of thoughts without dependence on finite resource-based technologies that subvert the biological endeavour. Wait, oh yeah, we did develop these abilities, we just got excommunicated from the garden due to our obsession with Apple products (like the one I used to generate this flimsy psychic projectile)

Edited by DonShadow, 02 October 2017 - 12:08 PM.

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#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:44 PM

When we are acting as mind, it's easy to over-think just about everything.   Being is always ongoing, and leaves nothing out.  See that we have a mind, and then see what is this seeing itself.   What identity has this seeing?   Is it other than I?  


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#16 DonShadow

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:12 PM

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#17 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:30 PM

"Nothing gets out those impossible stains."

~Swami Beyondananda



#18 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:33 PM

... and perhaps failing to see we have also been the cartographer.


You can't get there from here (when here is all there is).


But that's just it Alder, your stating an is proposition right there. Can I be sure here is all there is? I think not, perhaps more like a probability that much of here is, but some of here is not.

Perhaps these lumps of probability give the illusion of "things", and edges.

But absolute is? I think there is no such thing.
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#19 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:35 PM

Where are you right now?


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#20 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

 

If the door of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to a man as it is, infinite.

~William Blake

 

 

In-finite, as it is

 

 

 

Stay in the isness.

~Mooji

 

 

 

Can I be sure here is all there is?

 

Who is this "I?"   Is its 'here' merely some physical location?   In a realm of infinity, do we see how we take on our own self-made limitations?  With every thing, infinite, and every descriptor, finite, what in us demands all things submit to definition?   Perception is not but the perceiving, and even the perceiving is perceivable.   What wants to shut the door on being, to behold only?   Does that entity serve us the truth?   Is it true?  

 

Enjoy all the ten thousand things.   The oportunity's on.   See what these things are (and are not).   But, is not the truth always ongoing in the seeing?  Are we not simply that?   As the timeless awareness, what is my name?   Who am I?    Am I not that?


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 October 2017 - 08:09 AM.





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