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Learning Curve with Grape God


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#1 Microbe

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:01 PM

So I wanted to produce a little bit of medicine for my wife and this is very unfamiliar territory for me. I'm learning as I go and it has been a challenge, an exciting one to be honest. About day 5 after coming out of the dome, they were starting to die and I figured they were starving so I gave the some veg nutes based in the directions on the bottle. I have researched for almost 2 years now I should have no better but I went from starving them to nutrient burn I believe.

Against the advice of flushing them, I let them ride it out and I sprayed the leaves a few times a day and in about 3 days they recovered. When they media dried out I hit them with a about a 35% stregnth veg nute and 100% stregnth cal-mag. This is how the look 5 days later. If you would have seen these 2 weeks ago, they had just a few sets of leaves and we're in bad shape.

Today I'm going to feed them again with the same solution as the last feeding as the pots are about 75% dried out. A buddy of mine told me to allow it to dry out so the roots go nuts searching for water. For some reason I continue to spray the leaves but the plants seem to like it.

I'm not sure how I want to train them or if I even will this time. Im seriously considering focusing on the basics and learning to listen to the plant and follow the life cycle. But you guys/gals no me.....small steps is difficult for me I like to risk falling and busting my face by starting out running lol.

Any advice is much appreciated. For now I'm just sharing my first journey down the medicinal highway with you all.

You can still see the rough looking old growth on them but imo and without a trained eye, I believe they are doing good.


Using Rx Nutrient line which consists of both chemical and organic nutrients. I have not introduced any mycorrhizal or other microbes to the media yet and will probably begin doing that after I take my next set of clones.

Media is 50%coir 25%peat and 25% perlite.

Strain God Berry which is a Indica dominant.


I have not kept track of the age but I believe today starts their 3rd week out of the cloning dome. These clones were obtained for me, I did not take them or root them so that will be something to learn very soon also . I have all the nutes for that as well and also a Rx product(s) called Life.

Can't think of any other info at the moment. I'm very exciting about learning something new!

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#2 Microbe

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:56 PM

I'm thinking I had calcium diffciency and not nitrogen burn. That is exactly what my plants looked like.


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#3 Kraven

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:06 PM

There is a ton of things to consider. Cannabis has 7 distinct phases in its lifetime and you need to have an environment that gives them what they need in each stage, with that being said it is a weed and pretty hard to kill. I have been growing for well over 30 years now, and I see beginners struggle with the same issues over and over again. The first is watering properly and feeding the nutes your using and making sure they are complete and what the plant needs at that stage of life. The second is just being overly worried. If you would like a bit of help from an experienced breeder I wouldn't mind giving you the same tools I give most new growers that ask. It's a simple cheap program that will have you growing like pro as you really begin to learn about the plant. It a basic set of formulas and tools that help you understand the whats and whys, doesn't cost anything to learn, just the promise to pass it on. Peace


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#4 Microbe

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:41 PM



There is a ton of things to consider. Cannabis has 7 distinct phases in its lifetime and you need to have an environment that gives them what they need in each stage, with that being said it is a weed and pretty hard to kill. I have been growing for well over 30 years now, and I see beginners struggle with the same issues over and over again. The first is watering properly and feeding the nutes your using and making sure they are complete and what the plant needs at that stage of life. The second is just being overly worried. If you would like a bit of help from an experienced breeder I wouldn't mind giving you the same tools I give most new growers that ask. It's a simple cheap program that will have you growing like pro as you really begin to learn about the plant. It a basic set of formulas and tools that help you understand the whats and whys, doesn't cost anything to learn, just the promise to pass it on. Peace


Absolutely I would like the tools to help me succeed. I don't feel I'm struggling as much as I am learning. I appreciate all help, advice, tools and etc. I would be silly not to listen to what a experiences breeder is saying. Thank you in advance.

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#5 Kraven

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:51 PM

Well I look at it pretty basically the same its a weed so try not to stress to begin with most growers can plant / grow and finish a plant 95% whats separates the artists from the others is getting that last 5% out of the plant. That should not be your focus, right now just the basics are needed, grow good meds as easily and cheaply as possible. Period. Once you get a few grows under your belt you may decide hey, I want to try to get more weight. Thats when you move from the basics and ease into more complicated techniques.

 

 

A couple of questions.

 

What strains are you holding / running.

Are you running from clones or seed

What type and how much lighting are you using

what type of nutes are you using now and why

what type of substrate...soil / soilless / coco / hydroton / water

how long have you been growing

what does your grow space look like, what are the dimentions

 

 

have a look at my thread, i will post to it regularly soon.  https://mycotopia.ne...254-the-bunker/

 

 

 

 

 

 

with these answers we can figure out best what you know and what I can teach you or suggest another way to do things all together. Peace


Edited by Kraven, 07 November 2017 - 06:53 PM.

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#6 Microbe

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:20 PM

Well I look at it pretty basically the same its a weed so try not to stress to begin with most growers can plant / grow and finish a plant 95% whats separates the artists from the others is getting that last 5% out of the plant. That should not be your focus, right now just the basics are needed, grow good meds as easily and cheaply as possible. Period. Once you get a few grows under your belt you may decide hey, I want to try to get more weight. Thats when you move from the basics and ease into more complicated techniques.

 

 

A couple of questions.

 

What strains are you holding / running.

Are you running from clones or seed

What type and how much lighting are you using

what type of nutes are you using now and why

what type of substrate...soil / soilless / coco / hydroton / water

how long have you been growing

what does your grow space look like, what are the dimentions

 

 

have a look at my thread, i will post to it regularly soon.  https://mycotopia.ne...254-the-bunker/

 

 

 

 

 

 

with these answers we can figure out best what you know and what I can teach you or suggest another way to do things all together. Peace

i wil come back and answer these in detail tomorrow. I want to share what i did tonight.....thank you very much for opening your wings! 


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#7 Kraven

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:30 AM

no hurry and no worry. we will take our time and see if I can help answer any questions. they look to me like you have a really good start. its not super hard and there a few tricks here and there that make things easier. i'm glad to help and maybe down the road you can pass some information along to another who has questions. peace



#8 Kraven

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:33 AM

Oh let me clear up something, when I say breeder, i do chuck a bit of pollen here and there but technically I am not a big named breeder. I know and am friends with a ton of them, i mainly do testing and pheno hunts and I have a few projects I'm working on. I am just an old school pharmer who has been around a really long time. I hope you do not feel misled, that was not my intention..I sometime use the word breeder as short hand. peace


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#9 Justintime

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:14 AM

Check for spider mite.
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#10 Hash_Man

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:15 AM

" . .hope you do not feel misled, that was not my intention..I sometime use the word breeder as short hand."


No you come off right bro, glad you here.
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#11 Myc

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:23 AM

I would like to help too Microbe. Weed is easy. It's a patience game. 

 

If I were to venture a guess, your soil mix looks a little lean for rooted plants. Coir/Peat/Perlite is a good light mix for rooting clones - if you're not using rapid rooters - but there's not enough food for microbes in that mix. Once your clones root you'll want to get them into some worm castings, rock dusts, etc.

May I recommend using commercial soil until you get your feet under you?

 

Try Fox Farm's soils and Advanced Sunshine Mix #4 -

Happy Frog, Ocean Forest, and Sunshine #4 - equal parts of each 

You will be amazed at the results. Your existing soil mix is perfect for rooting clones and starting seedlings - take notes and learn the mix that you're using. Make it your first step toward the total garden experience - followed by a transplant into the "hotter" soil recommended above. 


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#12 Microbe

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:42 PM

I would like to help too Microbe. Weed is easy. It's a patience game.

If I were to venture a guess, your soil mix looks a little lean for rooted plants. Coir/Peat/Perlite is a good light mix for rooting clones - if you're not using rapid rooters - but there's not enough food for microbes in that mix. Once your clones root you'll want to get them into some worm castings, rock dusts, etc.
May I recommend using commercial soil until you get your feet under you?

Try Fox Farm's soils and Advanced Sunshine Mix #4 -
Happy Frog, Ocean Forest, and Sunshine #4 - equal parts of each
You will be amazed at the results. Your existing soil mix is perfect for rooting clones and starting seedlings - take notes and learn the mix that you're using. Make it your first step toward the total garden experience - followed by a transplant into the "hotter" soil recommended above.

Im pretty much committed and invested in soilless mix hand hand water/feeding the nutrients. I suppose I could always transplant them in soil if I loose control of them. Probably give me a better learning experience huh?

Speaking with the owner of my local hydro store, he too loves coir and is his method of growing. He uses worm castings in his and other organics in his.

The reasons for choosing this style is because it is a middle ground between soil and a more traditional automated hydro system. I believe this style would still fall in the hydro category because the plant and with exception of potassium , the plant will only get nutrients from the solution I used to water.

The next reason is because I expected to f up along the way. With soil it could take days or weeks to recover from a nutrient burn for example and with coir, if my ppm's and or pH gets out of control and the plant is feeling a little wrecked, I can flush it to rectify the problem.

I so want to put my mother in soil though and happy frog was mentioned once before and now you, so that must be some good stuff.

I appreciate your willingness to help me out and I look forward to more advice and direction.

I'm going to turn my PC on and put together a post I wanted to last night. I drank some beer and became slightly inebriated and i figured when Im best to avoid topia when I'm in that state because I pick on my buddies and come off as a arrogant asshole....which I really am not.

So I will try to put together a post of what I did yesterday.

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#13 Microbe

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 01:05 PM

Check for spider mite.

They were dipped for spider mites after the rooted. I don't see any yet but thanks for the reminder and will certainly keep an eye out for them.

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#14 Juthro

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 01:16 PM

Seems like you've got some real fine help, Microbe. I'll be watching, but these guys know more then me so I'll be trying to keep quite, and learn with you from the background.

I'm going to have to try soilless someday. But I'll admit working in my parents nursery as a boy ingrained some methods and concepts that I'm too old to unlearn. And the idea of growing without soil always seems a little unnatural to me. Fascinating, but unnatural.


I wish you much success on your path my friend.

:)
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#15 Microbe

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 05:51 PM

Unfortunately I botched my last post so this will lack many details for now. Ibahte using taptalk for posting pictures that require comments because you can no longer add comments above the pciturss now , you used to be able to but for some reason it hasn't worked in almost a year . It puts them all at the bottom of the post now.

Anyway here are my plants today. Not even 24 hours later after transplanting they are looking larger and healthier then yesterday.

I out them into 1 gallon Root Pouches. I added some Tarantula, Jungle Juice, and Mycorrhiza to my nutrient solution which is about 30% strength with full strength cal-mag.

pH was in range and varied between 5 and 5.8 which based on the feed chart, that is perfect. Still not sure if I'm in week 2 or week 3 of veg. Do you establish the veg start once they are out of the dome? If so then I'm in week 3 and my ppm's are about 180 too low and if I'm in week 2 then I'm about 20ppm to high. My readings were taken from about 25% run off, Im struggling with keeping it at 10% run off. Once it starts running it won't stop lol.

Once transplanted I sprayed the leaves with Axiom, Harpin Protiens and back in the veg tent they went. They have grown about 10% to 15%. I can see these really taking off on me so I need to come up with a game plan on the training style I want to do.

What are your opinions on Fimming versus topping? I understand the differences but I wanted to here from some growers with experience.

You can see the calcium deficiency in the old growth, at least that is what I determined it to be.

Im burned out after my failed attempt at my last post that I started on around 2 pm this afternoon and I know I have some questions I still need to answer and I promise I will. I need a break for now though.

Thanks again for all the help. 24cfd15f926f2de0f25e2fc904c3c1fa.jpg3b11882cbe7dd0e91733c42180082692.jpg52b438d7369b1794c8f3e41dd27806fa.jpg2bc886f6beef3ca26ed4e71241b91235.jpg681c39cb6a8db104df7782edad0941f2.jpg27a8bf4981fc5d2fcab6c3704b3472fb.jpgfbbbfba0c27522b7b5cace7083919387.jpgaf990d185c306d836c7ceaa01ae5e261.jpg7433aecbdeaad432528a3a1decce8978.jpg

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#16 Myc

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:05 PM

Look into Low Stress Topping for training of your plants. 

It is a practice of counting nodal points and then leaning the apical node over by pressuring it with your thumb and fore-finger. The apical node can be snapped easily and presents less stress than cutting or pruning. 

 

Once your seedling emerges you will begin counting true leaf sets. The seed leaves are the rounded structures which contain a food supply for the emerging plant. The first pair of leaves thereafter are true leaves - using clorophyl to convert sunlight into energy. After the fourth complete pair, you may consider topping the apical node at this point. 

Then it's fun to let the new pair put on one or two nodes before topping again.

If your space is tall enough you may even get away with a third. I went for three and am currently trying an 8 topped arrangement Things seem to be going well so far. Part of your mileage will depend upon the habits of the cultivar. Some have very tight internodal spacing where others will be stretchy or have more space between the nodes. 

 

All of your great outcome starts with the input. You're in the perfect stage to start a stellar grow. Best of luck - and sorry about the glitch. That's happened to me. I'm just glad my going into a rage wasn't against the norm. Thanks for sharing. ;)


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#17 Kraven

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:11 PM

Ok a pic is worth a thousand words. Your doing fine. I have some comments and they are meant to help, not criticisms.

 

first you are using way to much and from a lot of different companies....so lets get the nutes simplified, if that's cool I will tell how to proceed on that and give a very easy formula to follow that breaks it down to what week of what they are in ??

second we will work on what ph and in what week they are, it does change if that's OK with you??

third you need to put the cloth containers up on 2x2 blocks so they are up and can air circulating underneath them, defeats the purpose if you set them flat ....plants have to have a wet / dry cycle or you will have problems with your roots and that affect the whole grow. If its ok to make those changes lemme know and I'll give you my opinions.



#18 Microbe

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:28 PM

Ok a pic is worth a thousand words. Your doing fine. I have some comments and they are meant to help, not criticisms.

first you are using way to much and from a lot of different companies....so lets get the nutes simplified, if that's cool I will tell how to proceed on that and give a very easy formula to follow that breaks it down to what week of what they are in ??
second we will work on what ph and in what week they are, it does change if that's OK with you??
third you need to put the cloth containers up on 2x2 blocks so they are up and can air circulating underneath them, defeats the purpose if you set them flat ....plants have to have a wet / dry cycle or you will have problems with your roots and that affect the whole grow. If its ok to make those changes lemme know and I'll give you my opinions.

The Tarantula and jungle juice was free stuff so I just tossed it in. I'm will be sticking with Rx products accept for the cal-mag I will use the Botanicare.

My containers are on trays that allow for drainage to move away from the containers, they are not actually sitting in the water. My flowering tent I have a flood and drain tables that has a little resavoir where the water collects and can be evacuated with a wet/dry vac.


Will that work or do I still need to elevate them?


Below is a picture of the target pH based on what week I'm in.

Everything you said is absolutely ok. I'm open to criticism also as long as it constructive. Thanks again man for your help!

Are you familiar with Rx Green Solutions products?


https://www.rxgreensolutions.com


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#19 stonestare

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 11:15 PM

Sup wild man?

Are you in coir? If you are then coir will latch on cal so you may need to bump the cal up a hair or 2.

Watch the edges of the leaf serations. If they are "saw toothing" your lite on calmag. 1 seration will stand up the next seration next to it will be pointing down. If it gets bad enough you will get brown spotting or chlorosis on the leaves.

I didn't pick up your in coir but assuming. If you are in coir do not let the pot dry out so its feather lite when you pick it up. You cannot over water coir. The deal is if the medium becomes feather light then the salts from the food fall out of suspension and get stuck in the coir. You water the next time now you mixed the salt that fell out in and now its saltier than before. Always feed do not go strait water.

There is a couple thoughts that jumped out at me.Please correct me if needed. Glad you jumped in finally.

If you use base nute, seaweed,maybe a lil fulvic or a silica is about all you need for now.

Kraven I would like to say hello to you,good to see another grower in the land of mushrooms.

#20 Microbe

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 06:28 PM

Sup wild man?

Are you in coir? If you are then coir will latch on cal so you may need to bump the cal up a hair or 2.

Watch the edges of the leaf serations. If they are "saw toothing" your lite on calmag. 1 seration will stand up the next seration next to it will be pointing down. If it gets bad enough you will get brown spotting or chlorosis on the leaves.

I didn't pick up your in coir but assuming. If you are in coir do not let the pot dry out so its feather lite when you pick it up. You cannot over water coir. The deal is if the medium becomes feather light then the salts from the food fall out of suspension and get stuck in the coir. You water the next time now you mixed the salt that fell out in and now its saltier than before. Always feed do not go strait water.

There is a couple thoughts that jumped out at me.Please correct me if needed. Glad you jumped in finally.

If you use base nute, seaweed,maybe a lil fulvic or a silica is about all you need for now.

Kraven I would like to say hello to you,good to see another grower in the land of mushrooms.

How have you been man? Long time no speak. I am in coir. Regular stuff I use in fungi. I didn't wash it either, didn't realize I needed to and didn't realize or at least wasn't thinking that there was a difference in coir sold as plant media versus reptile bedding. I think it's ok though and will certainly condition my next batch. My media is 50% coir 25% peat and 25% perlite.

Right now im just feeding it About 30% veg nute supplemented with full strength cal-mag. The plants responded well once I added it. Talking to Kraver though my tap water is very hard and reads 380ppm with lots of calcium. I'm thinking I could eliminate cal-mag eventually by conditioning the media and using my good ole municipal water source.

I have a product by Rx called Energy. It's a 3-0-1 with kelp, Yucca, and humic acid. It's recommended usage is from week 1 veg through week 6 flower. That alone is probably all I need for vegging perhaps. The veg nutes are a two part base and has me mixing 8ml per gallon for week 1 which is freaking insane especially if I'm supposed to give them this energy also.

Anyway thanks for stopping by man. Hope all is well with you.

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