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Learning Curve with Grape God


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#21 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:02 AM

So I wasn't for sure what to do with my plant so I just played some Dope Lemon for them during the dark cycle and had to move them outside! 1da40cc8127be0ee14a162ea40c5bd3e.jpg

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#22 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:08 AM

Seriously though I'm still not sure how I want to proceed. They recovered from the transplant and are growing good. Yesterday I was able to see my hygrometer but now it's covered by vegetation.

These Root Pouches are drying out much quicker which was expected but to me it was one of those things such as yeah yeah and then oh shit.

In traditional pots I was able to go a week without watering. I understand my plants are bigger now also and there are more roots so everything is going to become progressively faster.

I'm thinking I might just flip two of these over to flower so I can observe that process and focus on training a mom then 4 weeks from there go ahead and start taking my clones and get into a cycle. afc7d1670ee385cc4f8893a5aec3678d.jpg

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Edited by Microbe, 10 November 2017 - 10:10 AM.

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#23 Myc

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:00 PM

I find myself watering every third day and then every other day - 1.5 gallons minimum per 7 gallon fabric pot. It's a good thing. ;)
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#24 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:30 PM

Finally finished my bloom tent. I thought I would had a little more red in these cheap LED's but I think they will get it done. They are almost identical to the Mars 300. The only noticeable difference is the Mars has 10 more LED's on its panel. I suspect, and because they both are 150 true watts with 3 watt LED's, that the driver is running a little harder on this off brand then the one in the Mars hydro.

I need to flip at 12" so i needed to get this done. Hashman kind of motivated me ;)

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Edited by Microbe, 10 November 2017 - 02:32 PM.

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#25 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:28 PM

PDF's loaded as a ran together link. I will repost

Edited by Microbe, 10 November 2017 - 03:40 PM.

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#26 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:53 PM

I installed these on my outlets and they work very well. They open when the blower is on and close when they are off. Im hoping to his will help trap the odor when my blower is off on my flowering tent. I was thinking I may still need to run my blower once a hour I don't know but what I do know is when my wife gets some shit like girl scout cookie, as soon as she opens the jar I can smell it just beng in the room and in about 10 minutes the entire house! Not sure how pungent God Berry but when I'm out of the house for a little while , when I walk in I can smell the ones in veg. It's not a dank smell but almost like a little spicy if that makes sense so I'm certain these are going to stink. dd731076ddfdafeb564f072c8f54663d.jpg

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#27 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

Ok so this isn't just a grow log but.more of a open source of my personal learning thread with a integrated grow log if that makes sense. I want to share what I have learned and even some of the literature that I read.

The reason why is because like any other science, there can be a difference of opinion or some information and processes may be dated just like on the other side with fungi.

I wanted to mention this because some of my posts might be nonapplicable or not important such as my previous post about my exhaust terminations.


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#28 Microbe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

If you don't care to read through the whole post, scroll down to the 'Summary'. But keep in mind I'm learning and my comprehension may be way off so please.....surface any flaws in my thought process.


MY first practical learning experience was after the fact but came together. I have been spraying my leaves with tap water which is 380 ppm with many minerals and a ton of calcium. We have one of the hardest municipal water sources in the county and even this part of the state. Anyway have been doing it everyday since I had my deficiency which I determined to be a calcium diffciency, and I probably don't need to say this but I will anyway, this determination was from a untrained eye and lack of knowledge on cannabis cultivation so I may be wrong.

Anyway i decided to Google " Should I mist my leaves during the vegetative state?".

A term called foliar feeding popped up. After reading about it, I now understand why just misting my plant leaves had excellent results during my deficiency issue a early last week. And really I should not have been surprised to see this considering clones should be misted.

So foliar feeding is taking advantage of the plants abilities to absorb water and nutrients through the epidemris and stomata. I have been familiar with the stomata for almost 2 years now as I did read up on plant anatomy and physiology occasionally over the last two years. However I thought the stomata functioned as gas exchange only.

So realizing that the stomata and epedermis can absorb water and nutrients, it came together for me why my plants responded well when I started misting.

So before I started misting I had transplanted my you clones twice within 3 days and they have not had any nutes since they were taken, not even after they rooted. When I did feed them they didn't respond very well and I know I said this before, I think my roots were not functioning efficiently after the multipule transplant and coupled with the starving them after being out of the dome either 7-10 days, I don't remember, resulted in a calcium deficiency so I believe that is why my plants responded very well, they were able to pull in the calcium through the epidemris and stomata.

I believe I was still getting a little nitrogen but coir locks in the calcium, at least the crap I'm using, reptile bedding unconditioned but now I know better.

Anyway I believe it has to do with ions and they have no place to bind to because of the already locked up calcium so most of the calcium results in runoff and the only calcium my plant receives at this point is what becomes the 'root drench'. I'm not sure if I explained that correctly but going into this I realized coco had some issues with calcium and magnesium while magnesium is not as important as calcium repectively.

With this info so far i now understand why Axiom or Harpin Protiens work with the plant. So I started thinking we'll wait a minute, why can't my I apply my cal-mag this way? Then I started thinking man alive there is a lot of calcium in my tap water and I mean it can qualify as one of the primary food groups lol. So I think I can manage my calcium during the vegetative cycle by simply continuingly to spray my foliage with straight tap water once a day.

Now I'm thinking even harder and thought wait a minute. Can't my hard water clog the stomata? So I did some research and it most certainly can. But I leaned that the stomata is under the leaf and not on top. That is obviously the anatomy part I missed! My point is there should be no worry about clogging the stomata by spraying my leaves assuming I hit the tops only. Now for maximum benefit of foliar feeding, I read that the bottoms should sprayed but again, man alive my water damn near clogs my regulator chimney on my PC in just a few runs!

SUMMARY: 'Foliar Feeding' is a effective way to adminster nutrients quickly when a diffciency is observed. One can spray just the top of foliage and get results but spraying the underneath of the foliage in addition to the top provides the maximum benefit of foliar feeding. However spraying the stomata with hard water such as mine (380ppm) can clog the stomata, or any nutrient solution for that matter, and therefore should never replace a feed regiment designed for the nutrient uptake via the root system.

Please let me know if im not understanding this correctly. I know there is more to the stomata and various technicues used to manipulate and or even take advantage of when they are open or closed. I was strictly speaking about getting nutrients to a plant during let's say nutrient lock out from salt build up or extreme out of range pH.


Please don't be mad at me for worrying about this when I shouldn't be right now, I should be worrying about learning when to water, feed, train, and etc. I was just curious if what I was doing (spraying the leaves) was effective. This is also in no way a rebuttal to anyone's current and or future teachings.

Thanks again and man alive I am excited to see this side of topia. So far I see a few familiar faces the hang out over here and again, please help me with any inaccurate information so some day I don't spread BS.


Beatus Nativitatis





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Edited by Microbe, 10 November 2017 - 08:56 PM.

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#29 Hash_Man

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

good summery your right you might be needlessly concentrating on Cal/Mg defiencys your plants 'cept for the older lower leaves look healthy and no signs of Ca defiency imo. you even said they were fed lite nutes and/or no nutes for a period of time and the plants reflected that state, and that was along with multi-transplants so bacicaly there is nothing indicating if fed regularly that the plant will harbor any signs of Cal difiency, anyone that knows me I don't supplement Mg, and rarely Cal for many reasons boiling down to nutrient balance and once Mg. levels get is high alot of other elements get thrown off.

Salty coirs that need flushing before use, may have been true 5 yrs ago, most coirs are kinda ok now I still start off washing/conditioning the coir but most the readings have been good and never need a second round of flushing shit out, the brick coco coir seems to compact in a short time, my experience quality bagged coco is worth going out of the way

Edited by Hash_Man, 11 November 2017 - 01:36 PM.

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#30 Microbe

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:26 PM

What I'm reading. If anyone has any relevant things for me to read please link me to them. Thank you in advance. I'm killing time while I wait on my dames grow a little more.

https://www.rxgreens...epaper_rxgs.pdf

https://www.rxgreens...epaper_rxgs.pdf

https://www.rxgreens...uality_rxgs.pdf

https://www.rxgreens...gonism_rxgs.pdf

https://www.rxgreens...iences_rxgs.pdf

https://www.rxgreens...logies_rxgs.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4740396/




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Edited by Microbe, 11 November 2017 - 03:27 PM.

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#31 Microbe

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:08 AM

https://www.calacade.../do-plants-hear

Could this apply to tiny ass mites?

Anyway took my dames out on a date last night....they eat a little more biological feed....because I'm keeping this media when I harvest.

If I'm not mistaking, I can harvest these dames and flush, flush,flush but the biologicals will stay behind in the media. I plan on using the same media 10 years later lmao.

These dames are hitting the runway tomorrow for a photo shoot......

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#32 Microbe

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:35 AM

I can't stop looking at them! I don't think anything can top my passion for the science of fungi but I can see developing a passion for this. There is a sense of connection with these plants, one that is very different then I have with mushrooms. They are kind of like my very beautiful daughters but definitely much more moody that is for sure lol. Anyway I think I have no idea what week I'm in, I will talk to my buddy whom gave these to me and get back on a timeline.

I'm finally starting to see a healthy stem base. I was very dissapointed to find out that Rx didn't offer a silica product. They claim to have trace amounts of it in all there base nutes and supplements/additives such as Energy and Bulk but not enough to even make it on the ingredients list. I know healthy plant will eventually establish a nice stem base but I have seem plants online that are only 8" tall with a stem with a diameter of a large barrel pencil used by kindergarten students!

So I was looking into manifolding but after talking to hashman I thinking I'm going to super crop and lst and maybe even top. We figured I need to flip at 12" so i don't have a lot of veg time. My goal is to try to get at least 8 tops, I know that's pushing it but I think i can pull it off and keep it right at 12" before going into flower, maybe not this first run because I'm a little late but moving forward I should be able too.

How are the Lil' Dames looking? b5273759770f31e9bea120ee2ee8f8c3.jpgc9bad468b39e321c02dbba243c7e85a3.jpgc30be3eaf2824ea2e6460d0ab43f88f1.jpg83915b6a37421e2ce2b3a5fad7ab8281.jpg5988a8e4b57e5cf538a67ee5979fd520.jpg47c76335d01cec7cb08e53f9e34b2923.jpg2dd48351b35262631d1b74765906b106.jpg9d7a7a99c07e64de9a09d98c81c33018.jpg

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#33 Jeepster

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

Damn pretty! Will be watching this thread indeed.
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#34 Microbe

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 02:56 PM

I will try to get some pictures up of the lil dames tonight.

Anyway 1 of my 3 mentors mentioned VPD to me or Vapor Pressure Deficit (I think) and being the science nerd I went on a mission. He gave a very good understanding of it but i still like to read about it, well in all honesty I hate to read but more accurately stated, was driven to read about it, it's out of my control I tell you.


So here is what I started reading

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5339896/

Below is a chart and I'm all the way in the dark blue, I'm talking I'm almost off the chart in a bad way. This can explain why my plants although look healthy, they have not grown much.

Also I have not been spraying the leaves lately which got me thinking, does spraying the leaves increase the RH around the plant getting to the optimal VPD? I run around 81° on average with the extractor running throughout the light cycle. I would be happy getting to the white area of the chart.

Let's assume spraying the leaves (tops only) does not work for increasing the RH, for those of you who do monitor and control their VPD, what methods do you use? Keep in mind I'm in a tent. I was thinking about using USH on a humidity controller but I'm a little worried about condensation soaking everything which could pose a electrical hazard. Im running off a GFCI but still......

Ok let's say as long as I prevent condensation by managing the temperature in and outside the tent. How would I maintain a target RH% with the extractor running constantly?

I figured I could put.my extractor to run on a timer just like I do with my greenhouses when growing mushrooms because my cfl's do not hesitate the tent up beyond 84° and that is when I have shitty airflow in my bedroom with heat on this time of year, like I said it stays between 80° and 82° with lights on.

Ok so let's say that works, I can maintain target RH most of the time, when the extractor is off. What about it bloom? I have a Hyper Fan that came with a speed controller and even has a complete enviroment controller that can plug into it and monitor Humidity, Temp, and CO2 but there would be a problem with using this.

My LED's get much hotter them cfl's. That is not my greatest concern though, I'm worried about odor. Even if I turned my blower down to the minimum 35% speed, and let's assume that is sufficient to control odor and temp, how would I maintain my target RH during bloom with my hyper fan going at 35% which is approximately 105 cfm? And how would higher humidity affect my carbon filter ?

I'm hoping a little more research will help to discover that misting my plants, and all though may not get me to optimal where plants function as they are on steroids, but at least within the normal level or white boxes on the chart below.

One thing is certain , I am definitely on board with this being critical to plant development and especially during flowering as I think it's a game changer and could impact yields by 50% or more when you talking about how far away I am from 'normal' let alone 'optimal'.

Thanks to the peeps taking time off line helping me, I just want broader views and experiences.

Here is the link again just in case it was missed up top and anyone is interested. Not where I found the chart but relative.

Off to the lab for a little myco work. I think i will listen to some Bassnectar for this flow hood session!!!!

@Hash_Man @Stonestare @Kraven @Myc @Juthro @Skunk @catsandbats @heirloom @tenderfoot



https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5339896/

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Edited by Microbe, 18 November 2017 - 04:42 PM.

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#35 Tenderfoot

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 06:43 PM

Hey bud...  just now seeing this thread!  Looking good.... always nice to have a few old hands around to shed some light. 

 

I will be watching this close (so I know when to come over and get some smoke) and wish you positive grow vibes... make it happen.


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#36 stonestare

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:35 PM

Put a 3 disk ultrasonic in a 5 gallon bucket. Put 2 holes inn the lid. 1 hole brings air in. The 2nd hole have it piped into a vent sleeve not used in the tent. Use aluminum tape and wrap the vent to the ultra sonic bucket pipe so the pipe is sealed to the tent vent sleeve.

2" pipe asa starte may need to go up in size for volume.

When your scrubber fan is on it will pull air out of the 5 gallon bucket and into the tent. May you need a pc fan or a fan pulling air out of the bucket into the tent? Maybe, will not know until its runing.

Advantage is your only soaking the air in the bucket. As that air is pulled in the tent the ambiant air temp will disapate the fine electrosonic mist.

No do not use when lights are off only when they are on.

Is it that simple? Never is but you can get close enough to tweak as needed. Doesn't matter what you do as in myco you make a change it needs a lil time to balance itself.

Edited by stonestare, 18 November 2017 - 08:39 PM.

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#37 Microbe

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:21 PM

Ok so I have the strain name wrong. My buddy told me it is Good Grape and not good berry. God Grape I believe is a cross between good berry and grapefruit.....sounds delicious.

So I hung my cheap temp/humid meter above my canopy from a yoyo so I can move it up and down with the canopy and although I'm still off on the VPD, it's not as bad as I thought. I'm staying right around 45%-50% which is still very low at 81° F. I also installed a Humidity controller with the probe just above the canopy and surprisingly my little cheapo is pretty accurate and my digital controller may actually be off and may need to adjust the calabration slightly. Im thinking when I fill it and put my extractor on a timer, I should be able to easily maintain target rh.

I'm still contemplating running a ultra Sonic system as stonestare suggested. I might just hang a few 5 gallon paint strainer bags of soaked hydroton and run a humidifier in my room to maintain Ambient air around 60 or 65% which will help. It's dry as hell already with winter temps and gas heat!

Enough about VPD for the moment.

My digital controller reads high because I took the picture after I sprayed my plants and I hit the probe.

The cheap one on the yoyo has a high and low recorded from where it was in my greenhouse. I have tried to reset the data but there is no reset function and I even took the battery out and left it out for several days. Oh well no biggy, im installing a digital temperature controller anyway and will replace it. 3571e1bfec3f5fdc59b96ea088d4859e.jpg1e8a8c84f36b9a79157be3ae4b62c3e3.jpg

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#38 Microbe

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:46 PM

Plant number 1

This is the smallest of the 3 plants and I attempted a LST method which appears to be working.

I didn't have any plant ties on hand at the time so I just pulled the branch over and clipped the leave to the side of the pot.

In the 1st pic that is a fan leaf I want to pull off. I pulled several off before I performed the 1st LST maneuver, if that is accurate terminology. I should have taken before pics.

I don't have a exact feed schedule or regiment right now and it's kind of random. My tap water varies so much in ppm and goes anywhere from 380 ppm to 400 so I'm waiting on my RO system to arrive. I will then flush them and get on a regiment.

For now i just do it randomly and this feeding was with the Rx Energy 3-0-1 with kelp, yucca, and humic acid @75% strength supplemented with 25% strength cal-mag. This applies to all 3 plants.

I will probably start supplementing cal-mag via foliar feeding at half strength. My plan once I get on a regiment is to alternative foliar maintenance or feedings on a 3 day cycle during veg twice daily in the Am and then 6-8 hours before the dark cycle, the

Am/Pm
Day 1 straight RO Water twice a day
DAY 2 RO Water with cal-mag / RO Water
Day 3 RO Water and Axiom (Harpin Protiens ) /RO Water

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#39 Microbe

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

Plant #2

These leaves look a little droopy but they sat on in my cold garage for a few hours.

This one was super cropped and topped. It responded fairly well and went very bushy in less then a week. 2 of the branches I super cropped ended up splitting a few days after I did it. My guess is they were to you to do this and I didn't tape them up and by the time I purchased some plant tape, they appeared to begun healing themselves .

I also pinched the main stem slightly just enough so it had a slight lean to it and it developed a big knuckle respectively.

In a few of the pics you can see some of the fan leaves removed and applied a LAST maneuver. I was not sure which way to go with this but it should work I think. de6b528dbfb8a7de36f5ad8bbe9b0ac5.jpgba6368f0d009020461c47f0f8af4384e.jpgc909949ef828c53c181b3ce2a44caf60.jpg4eb416e9c9cf8102dc8696885915f444.jpg0b933e7afb50775613e5d178f9066d9a.jpg7e6b627d0587f11761f3d2479ec95529.jpg63bc61a93e680e5285ea65b667c754c1.jpg8f50b1bd73f552e64226b9d497a3f8fe.jpg

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#40 Microbe

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:06 PM

Plant number 3

This one was just super cropped , or it may of been the one I topped I don't know. I may have mixed number 2 and number 3 up but this plant responded the best. It almost doubled in width and looks like it might have 4 or 5 tops. Nodes are so tight and the stem really thickened up, it was very hard to try to lst this one but I did it, I will have to keep pulling it over every few days.

It the first pic you can see what my stems did where I super cropped them. This is what they did on plant number 2 also but they are healing I think.

This plant is a little rough looking though and had some new yellowing in the lower growth. I'm going through a crash course on EC and 100 block feeding (I think that's what it is called) on Monday. I know people have given the answers but I want to learn how to get the answers myself just in case I end up changing nutes.

For some reason several of my photos from plants 2 and 3 won't load.

I think that's it for now. afac0b1ed364ba53d0f7249a5c6ef5bd.jpgf72103bd4e213a6e7966d011bfa01305.jpg2c8c858610346e9596368ed571aae087.jpg44de913a667168abc23a6cfcf7139ed5.jpg

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