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Kratom update :(


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#1 roc

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:21 AM

Sad day for all...

FDA finally rules on kratom: It’s a potential killer





FDA Finally Rules On Kratom: It’s a potential killer.

The herbal supplement known as kratom poses “deadly risks” and can be addictive, according to a long-awaited Food and Drug Administration health advisory issued this week.
The warning came two days after The Post reported on the controverisal substance, which is exploding in popularity in New York City smoke shops and cafes.
A Drug Enforcement Administration official was quoted saying their “hands are tied” until the FDA completes their analysis of kratom in The Post’s report last Sunday.

Kratom has been touted as a miracle cure for heroin and opioid addiction, but the FDA advisory warned there is “no reliable evidence” to support that.

“Evidence shows that kratom has similar effects to narcotics like opioids, and carries similar risks of abuse, addiction and in some cases, death,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement.

The Southeast Asian botanical supplement has been linked to 36 deaths and is “associated with serious side effects like seizures, liver damage and withdrawal symptoms,” the statement said.

The FDA said it is working to prevent kratom from entering the US. But the drug is currently in regulatory limbo, legal in New York and 42 other states, as it awaits a final decision from the FDA on how to classify the drug

Edited by coorsmikey, 20 November 2017 - 07:41 PM.
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#2 Jeepster

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 10:09 AM

That truly SUCKS!!!
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#3 Alder Logs

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 11:49 AM

So, kratom is to get the Wilhelm Reich Award for Big Pharma Market Encroachment?   Or is it the Hoxey Award for Unprofitable Effective Treatments?  

 

As the Eskimos have many words for snow, Americans should have as many for corruption.


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#4 Heirloom

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 01:15 PM

Thanks for posting this though no one like to post bad news. I hope there's enough time to stock up.

is there anything we can do? very sad news
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#5 Skywatcher

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 06:18 PM

Here comes another round of prohibitionists armed with half informed people in position........
I hate to see what comes up next. Isn't there something productive for these people to do?

This article has some additional information.
https://www.msn.com/...r-by/ar-BBEYy3m

Feds Prepare For A New War On Kratom, An Herbal Drug Many Swear By


This device was developed to ward off your worst headaches
More than a year after backtracking on plans to ram through a ban on the herbal supplement kratom, federal authorities once again appear to be getting ready to crack down on the botanical drug used by many Americans.

On Tuesday, Scott Gottlieb, commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, issued a public health advisory on kratom, outlining concerns about its “deadly risks.”

Kratom, which is derived from the leaves of a Southeast Asian tree related to coffee, has been consumed for millennia, usually as a tea or powder. The product sold in the U.S. today ranges from bags of raw kratom powder, marketed as an herbal supplement, to consumables in brightly colored packaging, found at gas stations and pushed as a cheap high, with minimal information about what might be mixed in with the kratom.

Gottlieb’s statement outlined concerns about the herb’s potential for abuse and addiction. He claimed there was “clear data” on these harms, pointing to reports of 36 deaths associated with kratom-containing products and a tenfold increase in calls involving kratom to U.S. poison control centers from 2010 to 2015.

Although kratom users have touted the herb as a safe and effective treatment for conditions like chronic pain, anxiety and depression, as well as a replacement drug for opioid addiction, Gottlieb said there is “no reliable evidence to support” those applications. In particular, he called the use of kratom as an opioid substitute “extremely concerning” and suggested that it could actually “expand the opioid epidemic.”

While kratom is not an opioid, its active ingredients mimic some opioid effects, including euphoria.


“We’ve learned a tragic lesson from the opioid crisis: that we must pay early attention to the potential for new products to cause addiction and we must take strong, decisive measures to intervene,” said Gottlieb. “From the outset, the FDA must use its authority to protect the public from addictive substances like kratom, both as part of our commitment to stemming the opioid epidemic and preventing another from taking hold.”

In a speech later on Tuesday, Gottlieb said the FDA would use “import alerts and other authorities” to increase seizures of kratom coming into the U.S. He also appeared to lump kratom in with a broader category of “illegal opioids,” of which he said 340 million packages enter the U.S. each year.

The FDA previously issued import alerts in 2012 and 2014, reportedly leading to the confiscation of thousands of pounds of kratom products

Gottlieb’s characterization of kratom stands in stark contrast to the one coming from its advocates, who last year fended off a Drug Enforcement Administration push to place kratom’s active ingredients on the list of Schedule I drugs. (Schedule I, which includes heroin and LSD, is supposed to identify the most dangerous substances, with a high potential for abuse and no known medical benefit.) Many kratom users claim it’s nothing short of a miracle drug, which has allowed some people to manage chronic pain and even mental health problems without the use of more powerful pharmaceuticals.

Apart from these glowing anecdotes, there’s also a growing body of scientific evidence supporting kratom’s therapeutic value ― or at the very least, suggesting it is low risk with minimal potential for recreational abuse. Kratom contains an alkaloid called mitragynine, which appears to activate opioid receptors in the brain and reduce pain. Although most opioids have sedative qualities, low to moderate doses of kratom serve as a mild stimulant.

Last year, researchers at Columbia University published a study on mitragynine finding that it activates opioid receptors without triggering respiratory depression, the side effect of narcotic painkillers that is typically responsible for fatal overdoses. The scientists concluded that drugmakers could look to kratom to develop safer pain medications. At least one pharmaceutical company is currently working to develop a medication that targets pain with a semi-synthetic compound derived from kratom.

Despite those promising developments, the FDA has not yet approved kratom itself for any medical purpose. Gottlieb noted that fact in his statement, saying that kratom vendors had not gone through the FDA process for evaluating botanical drug products. He encouraged researchers to continue conducting “research that will help us better understand kratom’s risk and benefit profile.”

Gottlieb’s statement underscores the tricky regulatory challenge that kratom faces. Developing a drug that will win FDA approval can cost more than $2 billion. Since the product in this case is a leaf that’s been around for thousands of years and cannot be patented on its own, Big Pharma has little financial incentive to go down that road.

In the meantime, the federal targeting of kratom could lead to additional problems for legitimate users of the herb, as well as others who might benefit from taking it, said Jag Davies, director of communications strategy at the Drug Policy Alliance.

“It’s outrageous that this is happening at a time when we really need innovative solutions to deal with overdose and addiction right now,” he told HuffPost. “We know that kratom is a lot less harmful than lots of these other drugs. They’re basically pushing people into using more dangerous substances.”

Although the FDA’s statement does nothing to officially change kratom’s legal status, it suggests that the federal government could once again be thinking about prohibition. Last October, the DEA postponed its kratom ban pending a public comment period. More than 99 percent of those submissions opposed putting kratom’s ingredients in Schedule I, according to an analysis by the American Kratom Association, a nonprofit trade group and the unofficial lobbying arm of kratom advocates.

At the same time, the DEA asked the FDA to conduct a formal scientific and medical evaluation of kratom to help guide any future decision. That analysis is ongoing, Gottlieb said Tuesday.

In recent years, a number of states have also passed legislation to ban the herb, often on the backs of reports about fatal incidents involving kratom.

The American Kratom Association has routinely pushed back against such reports, arguing that the deaths had other contributing factors. Last year, the DEA said there had been a total of 30 documented deaths associated with kratom around the world. Toxicology tests found that many subjects were abusing other drugs or suffered from pre-existing health conditions when they died.

The FDA did not immediately release additional information to HuffPost on the 36 kratom deaths that Gottlieb cited on Tuesday. Andrew Kruegel, a Columbia University chemist who was involved in the mitragynine study, was skeptical of the number, but wouldn’t rule out the potential of harmful interactions involving raw kratom powder.

“What we research is primarily pure isolated compounds and their effects, but what people are taking is this plant that has variable composition,” he said. “I’m pretty comfortable saying that mitragynine itself is a promising lead for new analgesics, but I’m not sure what I can say about raw kratom powder. A logical extension is that it would also have promising properties and would probably be even safer than the pure compounds because it’s a lower concentration, but you never know what else is in the plant.”

That said, Kruegel thinks the entire debate over the proper policy response to kratom has suffered from a lack of scientific evidence.

“It’s so hard to evaluate the risk-benefit ratio when the risks are not well-defined and the benefits are not well-defined. We don’t have clinical trials to show that it has therapeutic properties, but we also don’t have rigorous epidemiology to show the extent of abuse or the extent of toxicological incidents from kratom consumption,” he said.

In short, Kruegel said nobody can do a fair analysis of how kratom should be regulated right now.

This article originally appeared on HuffPost.

Edited by coorsmikey, 20 November 2017 - 07:39 PM.
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#6 coorsmikey

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:52 PM

And meanwhile the price of poppy seed unwashed goes from $6 per pound to $16 lb almost overnight! Unregulated and seems that no body gives a shit about how easy it is to get and also contribute to the opiate endemic. We all know that Kratom is a safer healthier alternative except the feds. Or would they prefer us to have opiates over Kratom? That is the feeling I am getting and the current government in place doesn’t give me any reassurance to think otherwise. Sad times indeed! Either way the people that suffer from pain are going to seek relief. It to bad that Big Brother And Uncle Sam want to limit the choices to the worst possible alternatives.
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#7 Soliver

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:52 PM

I couldn't believe it the first time I stumbled onto poppy seeds at 'ol amazon ... huge sacks of the things with consumers talking openly in the reviews about the effectiveness ... damn.  But that demented leprechaun is going after kratom instead?

 

I can honestly say that if it weren't for kratom I'd likely be another statistic in the pharma-made "opiod epidemic," which is a misnomer at best, sort of like our "obesity epidemic." 

 

The epidemic we're seeing isn't a widespread outbreak of an infectious opiate disease - it's the ongoing outbreak of government offices and self-serving police forces bent on controlling a population that simply wants to feel better.  Sure, there's always going to be a group that needs to take it higher, but most people that turn to the illegal or grey-area substances start off with their legal drug dealer (the corner pharmacy) and then got cut off when uncomfortable questions were being asked, like "why does a town of 1200 people consume over a million hydros a year?

 

So now the feds are gonna try and close down the kratom market so they can schill for pharma.  I'm already hearing tons of ads on the radio about federally assisted buprenorphine therapy ... as long as they're getting their piece of the action, they don't really care how it happens, but kratom doesn't flow through the proper greased palms, so it'll go the way of coca and khat (which, by the way, have much larger vectors for abuse IMO).

 

For what it's worth, the supply is still there - it's no illegal (yet) and a bureau that can't keep whole trucks full of illegal migrants from crossing a border certainly can't keep kratom from coming over either, but it'll likely be illegal or wicked overpriced in the near future. 

 

Invest in bulk powders and a vacuum sealer.  Write / call your representatives several times.  We got this knocked back two years ago - perhaps it can happen again, although it's creepy that the feds are keeping such a low profile with this latest announcement.  I think they're going to try and fly this plant-control under the radar.

 

Fucking morons.  They should plant a bucket of kratom at the front door of every pain clinic in the nation, but that may actually help wean people off the teat, and they can't have that.

 

I really hoped the new millennium would fade away from the police-state.  And I'm still waiting on my flying car.  And my robot sex slave.  And functional hangover pills.  And fat-free Doritos that don't make you shit for five hours.  Hell, at this point I'd settle for nationwide MJ legalization, even though it wouldn't help me what with the profession and all. 

 

Anywhoo - I'm really liking this yellow Vietnamese strain ... too bad we're just starting to get real variety and quality in the kratom industry and the feds are gonna take a giant dump on it.  Guess I'll have to go back to throwing dice and ordering from freakin' Indonesia using my dickhead neighbor's address ... again. 

 

peace,

 

soliver


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#8 fishy1

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 12:24 PM

Sad to see.. I betcha big pharms behind it.
Not going to slow me down tho
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#9 Coopdog

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

Oh yeah,. and on top of that, my work just said Dec 1st they are going to start testing for synthetic opioids. I wonder if Kratom will come up on a UA looking for tramadol?


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#10 Soliver

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:20 PM

Oh yeah,. and on top of that, my work just said Dec 1st they are going to start testing for synthetic opioids. I wonder if Kratom will come up on a UA looking for tramadol?

 

I'm not a doctor - I just play on on the TV ... but kratom shouldn't pop one of those ... they're looking for fentanyl, tramadol, etc. 

 

That said, if the alphabets get their way, kratom will be on there like the rest of 'em ... sigh...

 

:)

 

soliver


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#11 Cigarsam

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:27 AM

My friends business that buys in bulk said his company's warehouse is stocked up and the stuff is selling as fast as he can get it. I'm a believer in the stuff it's amazing stuff that has real healing and relaxing qualities.
I'm going to get a few more kilos of the stuff this week.
I have the White strain M.D.
Any others out there can recommend something for energy and focus?
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#12 Sidestreet

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:26 AM

 

reports of 36 deaths associated with kratom-containing products

 

 

 

Each year more than 480,000 people in the United States die from illnesses related to tobacco use.

 

 

Like they give a shit about 36 deaths.


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#13 Heirloom

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:33 AM

I found the Maylasian green and Borneo green to be energizing a few minutes after takingsome I feel energized and free of my morning back pain.

I think the American Kratom Association has said that kratom will not show up on an opioid test, they would need to test for mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine and a few other chems metabolites. They are working on a simple rapid test to determine if a person used kratom.

Synthetic opioids are like hydrocodone,oxycodone, hydromorphone old friends I do not miss and probably tramadol is synthetic

The only way tramadol would show up is if the kratom is adulterated as has been done by lowlifes to increase cash flow.

"Aside from the leaves and extracts from kratom, Krypton has also been found to contain caffeine and the synthetic opioid O-Desmethyltramadol."https://pubchem.ncbi...xicity-Excerpts

I saw a partial list of companies working on kratom and I was surprised, they know it has great potential for increasing cash flow if available by prescription only. Right down to the parasitic court ordered drug treatment centers preying on the unfortunate people busted for a bud and based on my experience with drug counslors they would be living in their parents basement,or picking up pop cans if the government had not created a job for them in the drug treatment industry.

Well if they do outlaw it I hope the drug cartels are ready to fill the void, I don't want to support those guys but I do find kratom to be an herbal medicine just what modern man needs. I go 4 days with out every few months to reset my dose to less than 1 level tablespoon /day in grapefruit juice to mask the taste I do use water when I am to lazy to go to the store. I have never experienced withdrawal from kratom.

I never thought I would see a reefer madness style hysteria campaign. I guess this is what it was like for cannabis users so long ago. The opressers have learned not to say it has no medical value until research is done and when they have turned kratom alkaloids into some semi-synthetic drug that can be patented or a synthetic monster variation that is as dangerous as their other frankenstien like drugs they will make it available by prescription only. I can se it now drug testing the population for kratom giving them jail time and court ordered drug treatment. When is the military going to declare kratom a nation security issue

Any of you care to guess what plant will be next to be deemed to dangerous that the parsites in Washington will declare war on.

If they out law kratom I will of course try to get some and might feel that I will need to pick up oxycodone maybe meth to.
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#14 Heirloom

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:40 AM

I think in some of those cases they withheld critical facts like one of them has conjestive heart failure,so a drink of water could of killed him. I can't recall some of the others that have been disputed by MD>s a medical examiner wanted to review a so called kratom but they don't want him to have the medical records, if they released all the info they would look like liars or lose their med licsence for incompetency.
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#15 Soliver

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 03:53 PM

Most of those deaths involved other substances combined with kratom - the one straight kratom death I read about was a cop / bodybuilder who died at the gym using kratom to "get past the pain" of overtaxing the body.  Pretty good (read 100%) chance he was also juiced on a bunch of pre-workout, - an industry that really SHOULD be controlled by the feds, as they've sold pre-workouts that were a few molecules short of meth in the past (anyone wanna snort a line of Jack'D 3D?).

 

If we were to pretend, for the sake of argument, that those 30+ deaths since 2012 were straight kratom OD's, then it still wouldn't hold a candle to tylenol in a month, distracted driving / cell phones in cars in a day, McDonalds in a week, or overly aggressive cops in a few minutes.  Hell, in the time it took me to type this, 10 people died from the shit they got legally from CVS, who ironically won't sell tobacco anymore because it's "not healthy." 

 

Don't get me started on tobacco and ethanol, or the feds stripping our basic rights to make choices ... grrr ...

 

I like the old-school reds - Borneo, Bali ... I like some Green Maeng Da in the mornings, sometimes a teaspoon of Vietnam yellow after work (it literally makes me slur my speech if I take it during the day, so I sound like the president).

 

Kratom effects everyone differently - start with a small sample from a supplier with a "no questions asked" return policy, find a couple strains you like, then go bulk; A hundred bucks a kilo is a fair price if you're buying more than 3-4 - much more than that and you're just lining the pockets of one of the hundreds of re-sellers out there who buy bulk, give it a cute name, and charge twice as much for snazzy sparkly bags with cartoon animals and shit on 'em ...

 

:)

 

soliver


Edited by Soliver, 12 December 2017 - 03:53 PM.

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#16 Cigarsam

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:02 PM

Interesting stuff, Heirloom...
We get drug tested regularly while working.
I will be careful now not to take kratom if I run the risk of testing positive for the synthetic opioid.
I tried it while working one day and it just turned me into "turtle" mode. (Slowmotion) Pupils pinned and red eyes and a few people asked if I was okay.
I'm sure they might have thought I might have been on something because it only lasted for maybe an hour.
2 level scoops.

#17 Soliver

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:15 PM

2 level scoops.

 

Sounds to me like your scoop is too big.  A lot of bullshit online talks about "two level tablespoons" of kratom as a starter dose - for me at least, that's a recipe for a bad day.  I have a plastic 1/2 teaspoon that I use for dosing when I don't have any capsules made up - start small, work your way up, don't believe the internet dosage guidelines.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#18 Pan1

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:06 AM

i just ran out a few days ago. i use two tsp in tea each day and have never had any with drawl.  was hoping to stock up out of the states in January, as the product is better and a lot of the canadian stores have closed up recently. hopefully i still can.



#19 Cigarsam

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:16 AM

It took only 48 hours (with no film) for me to notice my roommate's drawls. Loose bowls, shaky hands and low self-esteem. She takes 2 tablespoons in the morning along with 1/2 a milligram of S. Film. Maybe less than that don't know. It's pretty awesome to feel some what normal I hear this morning.

#20 Radagastthebrown

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:26 AM

Kratom has saved and changed my life as have most entheogens I use. I have dabbled in all sorts of drugs and addictions but have found a path to healing my soul. Through botanicals meditation and my will.
This is absurd and really is not true or right at all. This is fucked.
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