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Growing spice xtals


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#1 Rudeboysteven

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:27 AM

So I currently am in a deliema on growing dmt xtals . I have tried in hex. Hep. And thinking of trying to re x a nearly pure spice with xylene. Think it will work . I have a vac purge with a recovery pump. And I recently did it with heptane and got the prettiest mini xtals I've ever seen. Accept when they are scrapped they turn to fine xtal dust. Not very appealing or even stable . too much surface area exposed to oxidize. I want shards . of spice. And like. I can't do it in the air too much dust and air contam . pls help
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#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:48 AM

I’m not much help as I have yet to get past the mini xtals. I can grow nice shards in the freezer but as soon as the solvent is evaporated I am right back to the mini xtals. Since you have your three posts in, I’m moving here to Botanicals for a better audience. Although I haven’t seen much of any spice Jedi active in a while, but hopefully someone will chime in with some pointers.

#3 Rudeboysteven

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:20 PM

I’m not much help as I have yet to get past the mini xtals. I can grow nice shards in the freezer but as soon as the solvent is evaporated I am right back to the mini xtals. Since you have your three posts in, I’m moving here to Botanicals for a better audience. Although I haven’t seen much of any spice Jedi active in a while, but hopefully someone will chime in with some pointers.

Thanks man. Like I said. Well I don't know if I did. But I will. Any spice/advice, is nice . cheers. Sorry were you saying the botanicals comment cause I was posting in the wrong forum. ? New to this and yeah I Th I k I may have not posted correctly.

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#4 coorsmikey

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:26 PM

I’m not much help as I have yet to get past the mini xtals. I can grow nice shards in the freezer but as soon as the solvent is evaporated I am right back to the mini xtals. Since you have your three posts in, I’m moving here to Botanicals for a better audience. Although I haven’t seen much of any spice Jedi active in a while, but hopefully someone will chime in with some pointers.

Thanks man. Like I said. Well I don't know if I did. But I will. Any spice/advice, is nice . cheers. Sorry were you saying the botanicals comment cause I was posting in the wrong forum. ? New to this and yeah I Th I k I may have not posted correctly.
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You could not have posted to the Botanicals Forum while you were still in Myco Newb Status, now that you are a Free Member and are able to post here I move your thread to the appropriate forum. Let me guess? Your using Tapatalk so none of this makes any sense?
Edit: Nevermind I see your signature now :)

Edited by coorsmikey, 16 December 2017 - 02:27 PM.


#5 Jeepster

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:37 PM

Hey, welcome aboard, enjoy!
Very interested in reading the replies to your thread here.

#6 Rudeboysteven

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:05 PM

I’m not much help as I have yet to get past the mini xtals. I can grow nice shards in the freezer but as soon as the solvent is evaporated I am right back to the mini xtals. Since you have your three posts in, I’m moving here to Botanicals for a better audience. Although I haven’t seen much of any spice Jedi active in a while, but hopefully someone will chime in with some pointers.

Thanks man. Like I said. Well I don't know if I did. But I will. Any spice/advice, is nice . cheers. Sorry were you saying the botanicals comment cause I was posting in the wrong forum. ? New to this and yeah I Th I k I may have not posted correctly.
Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk
You could not have posted to the Botanicals Forum while you were still in Myco Newb Status, now that you are a Free Member and are able to post here I move your thread to the appropriate forum. Let me guess? Your using Tapatalk so none of this makes any sense?
Edit: Nevermind I see your signature now :)
Bam !

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#7 coorsmikey

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:05 PM

You know like you say, any spice/advice is nice. How about you share your method that you are using! Drum up some spice talk which I think we could really use a good spice conversation. I use a method that I’m afraid of of the feedback from the pros because it is so incredibly simple. Someone mentioned in another thread that they don want their kitchen looking like a lab for when the Mormons show up. The method I use makes my kitchen look like we actual use it lol. Baking dishes and canning jars, vinegar and some drain cleaner.(must have clogged the sink peeling potatoes) while literally my walk in closet is a lab with some fancy glass that never comes close to being used for spice. My garage has a shelf that has some paint cans, automotive chems, alongside with a few cans of various solvents. Out of those solvents I believe I’ve used naphtha, Zylene, and acetone in my experiments with spice. The method I use is from memory of college days when I took Ochem for a couple of semesters and applies some basic I remember. I have never actually follow anyone’s “tek.”
I have never used hep or hex. But I sure would enjoy reading what and why you use what you do? At least just for the sake of conversation. We have not had anyone spark a good spice conversation in a while. Even if your getting mini xtals, most the people I talk to recently are happy with the orange goo. Heck from what I’m reading is that people might even want to feed the spice to their mushrooms.
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#8 Soliver

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:47 PM

I honestly miss the Mormons.  They were super-friendly and always wanted to help with the yard work (?) ... Where I live now, we get lots of Jehovah's Witnesses, and I have to say that - at least here - they're nowhere near as educated or indoctrinated as the Mormons.  Most of them come off as newbly converted at best.  The Mormons had great literature and would toss over the "The Book Of" on the spot - hell, they'd give you their own annotated copy ... the JWs??  It's just the lousy "WatchTower," which reads sorta like a "Highlights for Children" from the dentist's office, written by a developmentally delayed cult member holding a large, orthodox crayon ...

 

But I digress ... coorsmikey - you have my attention.  I'm bored.  I almost bought a pack of cigarettes the other day, just to have something wrong to do, so hit us with your kitchen sink DMT that won't scare the inlaws. 

 

:)

 

soliver


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#9 Soliver

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:48 PM

Just for the sake of conversation, of course.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#10 coorsmikey

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:22 PM

Darn I use to love the visit from the Mormons, they would bring food, help stack firewood and wouldn’t even drink any of my beers. One day I asked if I could go out into the community and help do all the nice things they do for people and suddenly they stopped coming over. I guess they didn’t want me associated with them and seen doing good deeds for people.
Soliver are really interested in the spice tek that uses mason jars and and baking dishes or just the conversation? Either way I’m alway happy to indulge.

#11 Soliver

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:43 PM

I read and annotated the book of Mormon - they came every Thursday to discuss my readings.  I made them cookies and veggie trays and they always refused a beer or a bong hit.  I punched holes all through their text, and they always responded "it's a matter of faith," which I respected completely, being a man of zero faith who has always been envious of that particular trait (wouldn't life be easier if you could just ... believe?) ...

 

Long before that, I went to grad school in a town chock full of Mormons.  They were annoyingly awesome people.  If it weren't for the niggling "faith" and "good person" and "sobriety" aspects, I'd jump the Mormon train in a hearbeat, but apparently these are all sorta required. (I asked.  Several times.)  On the other hand, all the Mormon gals I knew over the age of 20 something were "actual size," like they were storing the next generation in their abdomens, so I guess "sexual frustration" isn't exactly cured after marriage for those poor saps either. 

 

They had totally rad mountain bikes too ... but they had to wear ties AND helmets, which were both odd back in those days.

 

 

That said, I'm always in for the conversation, but I'm honestly curious about a mason jar tek.  Daddy loves a mason jar.  I just MAY have a few laying around here somewhere ... :)

 

Beyond that, I could maybe benefit from something electrocuting me out of my current funk.  DMT is probably safer in the long run than that pack of Camels ...

 

:)

 

soliver



#12 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:34 AM

I miss knowing Mormons. There's just not enough of those too-damn-nice people where I live now.  :sad:

 

Just a few pointers on crystal growing in general...

 

1) Solvent choice -- One wants to chose a pure solvent that holds a lot of the target compound at high temperatures, and very little at low temperatures.  Conventional wisdom for clandestine chemists is that heptane and hexane are the best choice for freebase DMT.  Naphtha will do in a pinch, but xylene not so much; it holds too much DMT at low temperatures.  It is also important to be certain that the solvent one is using is pure, and not a mixture.  Sure, "Starting Fluid" contains Diethyl Ether, but most brands have hexane, ethanol, and a bunch of other stuff in there as well.  Always check MSDS documents to be certain of purity before repurposing household chemicals. "Bestine" brand rubber cement thinner is 100% heptane and has always given good results for my buddy Freddy.

 

2) Process -- Generally speaking, the process for growing crystals is as follows:

A) Create a supersaturated solution of the target compound

B) Cool the solution to room temperature

a) Optionally seed the solution with a seed crystal

C) Chill the solution as much as possible to force all the target compound to precipitate

D) Recover the precipitate by either decanting or filtering the solution

 

So far this is nothing you all don't know, but there are a few tricks to the process.  First and foremost is patience.  Growing big crystals takes time.  The more time it takes the solution to cool, the larger the crystals will be. Seeding the solution at the right temperature will definitely help but is by no means necessary.  As for a crystal-growing mason jar tek for Daddy  :wink:  up there, here goes...

 

  1. Heat some water to around 80*F in a 9x13 baking dish for a water bath.
  2. SAFELY heat a quantity of solvent to the same temperature (provided this is below the BP of the solvent!) and place it in a small mason jar in the water bath.
  3. Place an amount of pure DMT (save a few crystals for later) to be crystallized in a warmed (run it under hot water in the sink for a bit) mason jar, place it in the water bath, and begin adding solvent dropwise with frequent stirring until the DMT is JUST BARELY dissolved and the solution is clear.
    1. If one gets the ratio just right, taking the jar out of the bath and blowing on the surface will cause it to turn cloudy for a moment.
  4. Then seal the jar and let it AND the water bath cool to room temperature, keeping watch for the point where the solvent begins to turn cloudy on its own.
  5. When the solvent begins to turn cloudy, toss a few crystals that you saved earlier into the jar, being careful not to slosh everything around too much.
    1. Bonus points if the water bath is still warm.  If so, you can CAREFULLY transfer the hot water to an insulated cooler, GENTLY move the jar to the cooler, and seal it up to cool it even slower.
    2. From here on out the cooler (and the jar of precious cargo inside) should move as little as possible...
  6. When the water in the cooler has reached ambient temperature, siphon some water off & make an ice water bath.
  7. After some time, add some salt to the equation to lower the temp even more.
    1. Siphon off water and add ice as needed as the ice melts
  8. Eventually, siphon off most of the water and GENTLY transfer the whole thing to the coldest part of the freezer for a few days.
  9. Working carefully & quickly, decant most of the solvent off the crystals (They most likely will be needle-like at this point) and filter with strong vacuum in a cool environment. Let the vacuum run for 5-10 minutes to dry the crystals. -- Most of the "I had beautiful crystals & then they dissolved into goo when I scraped them up" stories are because people don't realize that even though they look dry in the funnel they are not.

Essentially, this whole silly ramble (Sorry it got so long, as all my posts are wont to do... :blush: ) is aimed at slowly and gradually reducing temperatures and allowing the crystals to grow bit by bit.  If one takes hot solvent and throws it in the freezer, of course one will get snow, (powdery crystals) but if one takes the time to do it right and slow it down, nice big needles will be the result.

 

If you want  DMT "Rocks," that's a whole different ball-game involving seeding liquid freebase DMT with pure crystals, difficult to do with mason jars...

 


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#13 wharfrat

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:12 PM

I miss knowing Mormons. There's just not enough of those too-damn-nice people where I live now.  :sad:

 

Just a few pointers on crystal growing in general...

 

1) Solvent choice -- One wants to chose a pure solvent that holds a lot of the target compound at high temperatures, and very little at low temperatures.  Conventional wisdom for clandestine chemists is that heptane and hexane are the best choice for freebase DMT.  Naphtha will do in a pinch, but xylene not so much; it holds too much DMT at low temperatures.  It is also important to be certain that the solvent one is using is pure, and not a mixture.  Sure, "Starting Fluid" contains Diethyl Ether, but most brands have hexane, ethanol, and a bunch of other stuff in there as well.  Always check MSDS documents to be certain of purity before repurposing household chemicals. "Bestine" brand rubber cement thinner is 100% heptane and has always given good results for my buddy Freddy.

 

2) Process -- Generally speaking, the process for growing crystals is as follows:

A) Create a supersaturated solution of the target compound

B) Cool the solution to room temperature

a) Optionally seed the solution with a seed crystal

C) Chill the solution as much as possible to force all the target compound to precipitate

D) Recover the precipitate by either decanting or filtering the solution

 

So far this is nothing you all don't know, but there are a few tricks to the process.  First and foremost is patience.  Growing big crystals takes time.  The more time it takes the solution to cool, the larger the crystals will be. Seeding the solution at the right temperature will definitely help but is by no means necessary.  As for a crystal-growing mason jar tek for Daddy  :wink:  up there, here goes...

 

  1. Heat some water to around 80*F in a 9x13 baking dish for a water bath.
  2. SAFELY heat a quantity of solvent to the same temperature (provided this is below the BP of the solvent!) and place it in a small mason jar in the water bath.
  3. Place an amount of pure DMT (save a few crystals for later) to be crystallized in a warmed (run it under hot water in the sink for a bit) mason jar, place it in the water bath, and begin adding solvent dropwise with frequent stirring until the DMT is JUST BARELY dissolved and the solution is clear.
    1. If one gets the ratio just right, taking the jar out of the bath and blowing on the surface will cause it to turn cloudy for a moment.
  4. Then seal the jar and let it AND the water bath cool to room temperature, keeping watch for the point where the solvent begins to turn cloudy on its own.
  5. When the solvent begins to turn cloudy, toss a few crystals that you saved earlier into the jar, being careful not to slosh everything around too much.
    1. Bonus points if the water bath is still warm.  If so, you can CAREFULLY transfer the hot water to an insulated cooler, GENTLY move the jar to the cooler, and seal it up to cool it even slower.
    2. From here on out the cooler (and the jar of precious cargo inside) should move as little as possible...
  6. When the water in the cooler has reached ambient temperature, siphon some water off & make an ice water bath.
  7. After some time, add some salt to the equation to lower the temp even more.
    1. Siphon off water and add ice as needed as the ice melts
  8. Eventually, siphon off most of the water and GENTLY transfer the whole thing to the coldest part of the freezer for a few days.
  9. Working carefully & quickly, decant most of the solvent off the crystals (They most likely will be needle-like at this point) and filter with strong vacuum in a cool environment. Let the vacuum run for 5-10 minutes to dry the crystals. -- Most of the "I had beautiful crystals & then they dissolved into goo when I scraped them up" stories are because people don't realize that even though they look dry in the funnel they are not.

Essentially, this whole silly ramble (Sorry it got so long, as all my posts are wont to do... :blush: ) is aimed at slowly and gradually reducing temperatures and allowing the crystals to grow bit by bit.  If one takes hot solvent and throws it in the freezer, of course one will get snow, (powdery crystals) but if one takes the time to do it right and slow it down, nice big needles will be the result.

 

If you want  DMT "Rocks," that's a whole different ball-game involving seeding liquid freebase DMT with pure crystals, difficult to do with mason jars...

That, my friends, is some excellent advice. Archive Material


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#14 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:59 AM

I was thinking about this at work today and a few things occurred to me...

...

I have a vac purge with a recovery pump. And I recently did it with heptane and got the prettiest mini xtals I've ever seen. Accept when they are scrapped they turn to fine xtal dust. Not very appealing or even stable . too much surface area exposed to oxidize. 

...

 

Do I understand correctly that you have a device that lowers the BP of your solvent with vacuum and recovers the solvent? Like a rotary evaporator? If so, badass and quite ecologically responsible.  :thumbs_up:  The reason you're not seeing large crystals is, again, time.  When you boil off all the solvent (at low temperature because of the vacuum) there simply isn't enough time to build large crystals.

 

Let's play a game:

Imagine your solvent as a circle in a parking lot, and your DMT as a bunch of people inside that circle.  The object of the game is to make sure that everyone stays inside the circle as long as possible, and if a person steps out of the circle they have to go down on their hands & knees. It's basically "The floor is lava" outside the circle and everyone wants to help everyone else stay inside.

 

When you start to evaporate (or cool in the case of freeze precipitation as above) the solvent the circle starts to shrink and the people get closer and closer together until they can't all fit on the circle anymore and some are forced to crouch on their hands & knees.  If the circle shrinks quickly, you just end up a bunch of people on their hands and knees... Small crystals.

 

But, if you shrink the circle slowly, a few people drop to their hands and knees and that makes more space for the rest of the people because they can climb on top of the ones on the ground. Then, as the circle gets smaller, the people start to cooperate and climb on top of the people on their hands and knees and make a human pyramid to make more space for everyone else in the circle. The slower you shrink the circle, the more time the people have to make a pyramid...  Big crystals.

 

Take it one step further and add your seed crystals to the equation.  This makes it so the game starts with some people already on their hands & knees, the building blocks for human pyramids are there right from the beginning!  Some of the people will choose to go on their hands and knees next to the seed crystals to give everyone else more time as the circle shrinks and they will be able to make a bigger pyramid.  You have to give your people as much time to cooperate and make human pyramids as possible, because that shit is hard!

 

Does that make sense to anyone but me? :weedpoke:

 

...

I want shards . of spice. And like. I can't do it in the air too much dust and air contam . pls help

This got me thinking.  The biggest and best crystals are made by very slow evaporation of the solvent. I remember Phlux or Director of Sound talking about a bucket of harmala alkaloid solution that he forgot in the shed for a couple of months and discovered giant crystals when he found it again.  Obviously you can't evap in open air because of dust, like you said. But...

 

BUT.......

 

What if you made a supersaturated solution as described above, let it cool until it started to get cloudy & seeded it with a pure crystal, then covered the container with a porous fabric?  Something that wouldn't let dust in, but would let solvent vapor out, like a thin T-shirt or maybe even TyVek.  I bet you could grow some gnarly shards if you let it sit for a week or two (or more?) and slowly evaporate that way...  


Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 19 December 2017 - 04:24 AM.

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#15 Cigarsam

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 07:00 AM

∆∆ Great information man. Let's keep this thread up and moving forward. I know of a few people here that find this to be very interesting might not ask any questions because this is something new.
P. Carmichael you know what your talking about.
Thanks
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#16 coorsmikey

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:34 AM

When I first saw this thread pop up and had to approve cuz it was the OP’s first three, I was thinking damn it sure would be nice if PC was around to add his knowledge. Then bam he shows up! Good to see ya PC. Things are some much more interesting when your here!
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#17 coorsmikey

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:39 AM

So when freezing the super saturated solution and the nice clusters of xtals form, those can get scooped out and dried. Would that be suffice for the Xtal seeding?
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#18 CatsAndBats

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:39 PM

GODDAMN! Saving this for good reading later!
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#19 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:03 AM

∆∆ Great information man. Let's keep this thread up and moving forward. I know of a few people here that find this to be very interesting might not ask any questions because this is something new.
P. Carmichael you know what your talking about.
Thanks

 

Thanks for the compliment, but tell those people to ask!

 

Asking is how we learn.  Once upon a time I went to one of my professor's office hours to ask a stupid question about nucleophilic attack, which we had discussed in class that day and I didn't quite understand.  He answered my (simples) question and asked, "Why didn't you ask about this in class when I asked if there were any questions?"

 

I replied, "I didn't want to disrupt your lecture and I didn't want to look stupid in front of the class because I didn't get it."

 

His response was absolute GOLD....

 

He said, "Phin, I am here to teach. You might think that my job is to stand in front of students and lecture, but actually my job is to help you understand.  I am sure there are a dozen students in the class that, just like you, don't quite understand nucleophilic attack, but because everyone was too shy to ask in class only you will understand because only you came to me privately.  If you had asked your "stupid" question in class, everyone else who was just as confused as you were would have benefited from our little chat today.  The only stupid question is the question we don't ask."

 

In School and on Topia, ASK, ASK, ASK!  Nobody here will belittle anyone for asking a question, even if it has been answered hundreds of times before. We are a community of teachers and seekers.  We help each other.  Please don't be afraid to ask a question, any question, even if you think it it "stupid.

 

We help each other.

When I first saw this thread pop up and had to approve cuz it was the OP’s first three, I was thinking damn it sure would be nice if PC was around to add his knowledge. Then bam he shows up! Good to see ya PC. Things are some much more interesting when your here!

It's funny, my life in the last 2 years has changed a whole helluva lot.  I no longer have time for Topia like I did years ago, nor can my buddy Freddy devote so much time to "the lab."

 

But, every so often I get a feeling that I should check in, and every time I do, there is a question at the top of Botanicals that I feel I am supremely qualified to talk about.

 

Some kind of Topia Bat-Signal I guess...


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#20 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:50 AM

So when freezing the super saturated solution and the nice clusters of xtals form, those can get scooped out and dried. Would that be suffice for the Xtal seeding?

By the time you see crystals forming it is already too late to seed; you would be scooping the top of the "human pyramid" in the analogy above.  You need to seed when the solution is cloudy -- when there are a bunch of people on their hands & knees.

 

BUT...

 

You could scoop and dry some of those nice clusters of crystals from a freezing jar, and let the jar warm up until the solution was clear.

 

Then you could cool the jar until it was cloudy again and drop the scoop of nice crystals in and freeze.  The scoop would be your seed crystals and would probably grow some giant crystals...

 

--------

 

I feel like I'm not explaining this properly... Please help me by asking questions...


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