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What have I become?


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#1 bennylava

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 04:44 AM

These mushrooms, they do something to you. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what. I can only say that I am different. I am not what I once was. There are many things about them that can be defined, many changes that fit into our language. Those, I have no issue with. But its the ones that defy logic, defy explanation, that seem to bother me. There isn't really language for it. Or if there is, I've never heard it and don't know it. I know that you all know what I'm talking about, and you must have asked yourself this same question at some point in your long journey. The question of, What have I become? What has happened to me? I hope I don't sound overly dramatic, and I hope the meaning that I'm trying to convey is coming across.

 

I often feel half mad. Like some part of me is no longer sane. But that really can't be true, because I'm not in the mental hospital. And nobody even comes close to thinking that I should be. What is this? Could it have something to do with some kind of rapid expansion of consciousness? I don't think that covers it, but I think that it could be some part of it. I do have something of a lead, a hunch. There are song lyrics from Kenny Rogers (Just dropped in) that sort of.. give me a clue.

 

"... I saw so much, I broke my mind"

 

And it leads me to think about how I've never, until mushrooms, encountered anything that was bigger than I am. That's not arrogance, but a simple truth. Any average human being can with time, understand just about anything in the human realm. Just give it time and study, and they can understand and learn anything. Even the entire universe itself, will one day be understood completely by human beings. Someday. Which means we too could understand it given that we were able to study the proper material for the right amount of time. Doesn't matter if it took 30 years, we could do it if we lived in the correct time when the information is available. Those people from that time are the same as us, so we could do it.

 

But not this. This is bigger than that. So its bigger than I am. Could it be that running into that, is part of what I'm experiencing? Could it also be that I'm just doing what is known as... well walking the shamanic path? That is what they do after all. They take these plants and mushrooms. It may not be the whole thing, but its certainly a big part of shamanism. Are shamans half mad? Some would say yes, most certainly. But somehow, at the exact same time, they're the most sane human beings on the face of the earth. How can this be? I just can't understand it. And I've never run into something I can't understand when I really really try. My mind may not technically be broken, but its definitely hit a 1000 foot high wall that says "You shall not pass" in giant letters on it. And it has given up. When I contemplate on this huge mystery hard enough, I just get a big vision in my head that says "Does not compute".


Edited by bennylava, 22 December 2017 - 04:47 AM.

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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 09:48 AM

Alan Watts has said that the problem is that we try to eff the ineffable.  

 

If we are identified as, and thereby limited to, our finite minds, we are bound to come up short in the face of something infinite.   There's just some shit you leave at the door if you want to be the Mystery itself.    I do feel that the mushrooms allow for moments of becoming in a greater part, the Great Mystery.   When the part we inhabit is once again the habitual identification as mind, mind is confounded, being of necessity, finite.  It, as its believed in image, screams that it wants its cake and eat it too.   It refuses to drop what it couldn't carry into what was beyond its normal bounds to enter what is so clearly a more boundless sense of being.  Tough shit, mind.  Get over it.   Tell me how you are not arrogant, wanting to be the Mystery and Joe Doaks at the same time.    Joe can't do the secret handshake, and he can't help not liking that.    Ego is never going to have a ticket in. 

 

Could we ask, "are shamans proud, or are they humble?"   Do they swagger into the Mystery, or approach the unknowable and unspeakable with offerings and supplications? 

 

Rather than ask, "what have I become," perhaps the question is, "what must I put aside?" 

 

The Mystery accepts only itself, pure being.   You are already this pure being as the eternal timeless reality, the Truth of everything, before even it can be called anything.  All that is added onto the True is made purely of illusion.    To accept the shamanic vision, a seeing in a truer reality, the false must be left behind.   Returning to the illusion is well and good, but it must be seen for what it is, and isn't.    This is the shaman's art; his/her clarity and honesty to know whTell me how you are not arroganten he/she is seemingly acting and on which side of the curtain.  

 

Or not.

 

 

 

On edit:  When I wrote, "Tell me how you are not arrogant...,"  it certainly was not to be personal for you, Ben.  It was to the Joe Doaks potential in all of us.   


Edited by Alder Logs, 22 December 2017 - 04:33 PM.


#3 Marleyahu

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

Rapid expansion of consciousness is exactly how I would describe it. To me the mushrooms are a teacher guiding you through a great mysterious journey trying to assist your understanding of this world along the way. Expanding your consciousness is all that it wants to do. It has been there to help me think in ways I never thought possible, there to help me think in ways I never would have even though of to be able to think them impossible. It has helped me to understand that it is truly a wonder, this world we live in. We are but a tiny spec in this ever expanding universe and just having life is a blessing alone, let alone this ability to take ourselves to a seemingly different realm of existence with a single plant. 

 

I do however find it odd that it took this experience to make you understand that there are things larger than you. Does having the consciousness to understand and figure things out make us bigger than the universe itself? There is no way I could consider myself bigger than the thing that gives me the ability to exist just because I may one day have the ability to understand it. We are nothing more than a simple carbon based life form in a universe of mystery. I simply cannot bring myself to believe that I am larger because I can understand.

 

It seems more important to respect this place we live in than to understand it. Respect the stars that died to be able to provide the atoms in our bodies, respect the solar system we are in for providing us with a sun for warmth and the perfect cycle to sustain a life on this planet, respect all of the cosmo's for even existing in the first place and allowing us to be, or simply for being so large and giving us something to speculate on for many years past and many more to come. Yes this great teacher in the mushrooms wants me to realize that there is another realm out there that I can visit and learn from, but it also wants to teach me to respect the realm I live in and do my best to take care of it for taking care of me and for allowing me access to the other dimensions and frequencies of thinking just by ingesting a simple plant. A plant so important in the world of thought and healing.

 

These mushrooms have aided me through many facets of life and continue to do so even while sober. They have helped me change my view points on things like religion, science, human relation, and so much more. It has guided me through my own mind and gotten me out of some of my darkest depressions. It is a very scary trip when you are doing them to get through a hard bout of depression but they help immensely and this is a part of shamanism. They have helped me to release my inner demons many of times and it is not always fun but very important. Some may consider people using these hallucinogens to be crazy or mad like you say but I feel these mushrooms to be one of the few things that has helped me away from the madness I was in. These are a beautiful medicine that need to be used carefully and respectfully and as long as you do that the teacher in the mushroom will continue to help you have these growing experiences. They may not always be fun, but there is always something that can be learned.

 

I dearly hope that one of the teachers lessons is that, yes there may be a realm that is far larger than you or I, but also that this realm we occupy normally is much larger than us as well. There are many great things in store if you keep indulging in these trips through the mysterious dimensions. I myself feel that I will continue to do so well up until the day I feel I no longer should..... and then probable some more after!


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#4 Cuboid

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 04:22 PM

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

Seems appropriate somehow. I don't for a minute think old Bill was the first to think, say, or write down these sentiments. We each are an infinitesimal part of the infinite, it's pure hubris to believe we could ever understand it all in an intellectual sense.
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#5 Alder Logs

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:39 PM

I have no idea what happened to this sentence:

 

"This is the shaman's art; his/her clarity and honesty to know whTell me how you are not arroganten he/she is seemingly acting and on which side of the curtain."

 

 

I cannot figure out what the original sentence was.  Something got clicked and dropped or something.  These sorts of things have been happening with my computer a lot, but I usually catch it when it happens, as I am the anal retentive proof reader.



#6 Soliver

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 11:25 PM

I often feel half mad. Like some part of me is no longer sane.

 

 

I have no idea what happened to this sentence:

 

 

Whether it's fungus or the ravages of old age and protein-deficiency, dementia comes crashing down upon us all eventually.

 

If it's just mushrooms, you have nothing to worry about.  Keep eating them at least every month, and that nagging sense of reality falling away from you will eventually fall away from you.

 

Trust me.

 

The transition you are experiencing is ... well, I'm not gonna call it "normal," it's not like you're suddenly a vampire now (although that would be totally cool too), but it'll take some time to get your head screwed on crooked and come to terms with the fact that you're a newborn mental minority.  Good luck with that, by the way ... keep it to yourself is my advice.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#7 onediadem

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 01:37 AM

I agree. Definitely keep it to yourself. I have not met one person that has not used my mind against me, so I am just not sharing anything personal with anyone anymore. Always be safe when it comes to talking about "mental" things. Especially with any reference to illness lol. 

 

On that note, I often experience myself standing next to myself, as though my other self is trying desperately to convey a message. It is very ethereal, and very fleeting if I try to focus in on it, or concentrate on it too hard. A friend of mine from another board sent some killer lucy to me, and I am planning a large dose for New Years. I am going to try and come face to face with my pseudo self. Best of luck to you!


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#8 Marleyahu

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 04:57 AM

I am exact opposite of that. I take a lot of pleasure out of talking to people about these experiences and trying to spread the word and knowledge of what is possible with these substances and how they have helped people like me. Even to some people that I know are going to judge me and try to as you said @onediadem "Use my mind against me". I challenge them to do so. I hope for everyone I speak to, to have the ability to change my mind through conversation if it is needed, I enjoy having a good intelligent conversation and am open to anyones ideas they throw at me.

 

I just understand that having an intelligent conversation and being able to change you own view points on something because of it is the only true way to become a true intellectual, but to this day anyone that has opposed the things I stand for never seems to do it in a respectful manor. They go straight to me being a drug user and that I am just a bad person ruining my mind and thats not so. No one wants to share an intelligent conversation about my side vs. the opposing side they simply want to condemn you. 

 

Once someone does that to me I no longer waste my energy on them. But if I let that bother me and let them use my mind against me, then I am doing myself a complete dishonor by in some way valuing something that they said or think about me more than I value my own morality. I am not bothered by the ones who think I'm crazy because they are obviously not important. If they could have followed my story and seen where I started they would understand that I am a lot less mad than my earlier years. Something that everyone needs to come to the understanding of though is what the Cheshire cat has to say

were-all-mad-here-luis-navarro.jpg

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#9 Soliver

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:46 AM

 

On that note, I often experience myself standing next to myself, as though my other self is trying desperately to convey a message. It is very ethereal, and very fleeting if I try to focus in on it, or concentrate on it too hard. A friend of mine from another board sent some killer lucy to me, and I am planning a large dose for New Years. I am going to try and come face to face with my pseudo self.

 

I've never heard it explained in that manner, but I know the sensation you're talking about ... 7am in the shower when the morning kratom tea is kicking in usually does it for me.  No telling. 

 

WTF is Lucy?  Another one of those kewl-kid substances I missed out on, no doubt?  :)

 

soliver


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#10 Cuboid

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:55 AM

Lucy == LSD
(Presumably in reference to "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds")
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#11 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:23 PM

What hurts us is our own taking a thing personally.   We, the person, must remain guarded, when it is how we identify.    If and when we see we are much more than our ideas of self, and that the ideas are and were never more than a constantly changing set of ideas, what is there that someone else's ideas could threaten? 

 

 

All problems are personal.

~Mooji


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#12 bennylava

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:07 AM

 

I often feel half mad. Like some part of me is no longer sane.

 

 

...you have nothing to worry about.  Keep eating them at least every month, and that nagging sense of reality falling away from you will eventually fall away from you.

 

Trust me.

 

 

 

Oh thank God. You have no idea how comforting it is to hear you say that. I'm so glad to have heard that from just one person. I used to have such a hold on reality it and now its gone. Now I just have to go through the day ignoring it to the best of my ability. If I think about it, here comes some anxiety/fear. I mean, now I know that my hold on reality was only ever really an illusion at best. But ignorance is F****** bliss. It ain't much fun to have your reality shattered. You get real uncomfortable. I can't remember feeling worse, than to have that taken from me. Its the worst feeling I've ever known. Or at least that I can remember. I get to thinking that my life isn't even real, that nothing I've ever known was ever real. The world used to be very small and now its huge. I was a man, the primary species. And now I'm an ant.

 

What dosages would you recommend taking them in every month? The small doses do seem to have something of a curative effect on me, for mental issues.

 

And could you elaborate on "newborn mental minority"? I think you're onto something there. Understanding is what I need. I think that is a big part of my problem, I do not understand what is happening.


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#13 OysterFarmer

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:23 PM

In response to this I tried finding that Monty Python pic where they were describing God as BIG  really really BIG.  I failed.  But at least I tried.  And that is all we can do.  The mushrooms help us with our trying.

 

They do change you.  I'd hope for the better.  I too used to worry about them causing some sort of brain damage but my life being such a shit sandwich and the world apparently being a run away train manned by a conductor screaming MORE COAL IN THE BOILER! after a point I realized I had nothing to lose.

 

I take them more days than not.  Probably five days a week at least.  And have done so for over a year.  The only comments I've gotten from friends is that I don't post on facebook any more.  And the mushrooms did help me see what a colossal waste of time it was.

 

I think in the sixties one of the main complaints parents had about psychedelics was that they 'changed' their kids.  Well you know maybe if your kid doesn't want to run off to a strange land and shoot people he is making some important life changes.  Or what if he just happens to be gay and doesn't want to marry the girl from church?  What if he decides he wants to be a painter or walk people's dogs for a living? 

 

Another thing they have definitely changed in me.  Well the change wasn't in me.  I used to have this problem with people coming up to me and well just being fucking aggravating.  No matter where I'd go or what i was doing people somehow would take it upon themselves to just come up to me and fucking blah, blah, blah ,blah.  Yeah I know, I know this happens to anyone living in a big city.  But it was much, much more in my case.  Friends would even remark on it on the level of what the fuck dude....

 

Somehow the mushrooms have 'changed my vibrations'.  LOL I hate that phrase.  I've heard so many fuck heads use it.  So I'm taking the phrase back I guess cause I don't know how else to describe it. 


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#14 niemandgeist

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

Things like this can take a lifetime for us to begin to comprehend in any meaningful way. I continue to look back at my past experiences in life, so far as life in general and things I've lived through as well as my past experiences with psychedelics. Over the years I continue to learn more and more, to find new insights, new understanding, new meanings, new interpretations, different ways of looking at everything. I believe that this is a process that will continue throughout the remainder of my life.

 

There is the saying "Know thyself". I've found that this is not a very easy thing to do because I am not a constant. I'm always changing. I try to understand myself to the best of my ability, and I feel that I've become better at it over time, but will I ever truly know myself? I don't think it matters. I think it matters more that I do try and that I continue to become more comfortable with who I am, who I've been, and what I've done.

 

This is a safe space to wonder out loud about these things, but as others have cautioned it may be best to keep most of this to yourself. Once you do manage to find some meaning in it all you can share it with others bit by bit over time if you like, but you can never know what others might think of what you'll have to say. Some things are best written down and shared that way while assuming another identity. It's not uncommon for authors to share their work or their beliefs, particularly if they might go against societal norms or the status quo, by using a pseudonym instead of expressing themselves by using their real name. You can do that here, but you certainly don't have to. :)


Edited by niemandgeist, 27 December 2017 - 02:32 PM.


#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

There is the saying "Know thyself". I've found that this is not a very easy thing to do because I am not a constant. I'm always changing.

 

Have you not seen that this "I" which is not constant, always changing, has been there in your seeing all along?  Has there been a time when this seeing was not there, whether acknowledged or not?   Could you, as the seeing, be unchanging and constant, the true you?   Ponder this.  

 

Namasté


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#16 bennylava

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:35 AM

Things like this can take a lifetime for us to begin to comprehend in any meaningful way. I continue to look back at my past experiences in life, so far as life in general and things I've lived through as well as my past experiences with psychedelics. Over the years I continue to learn more and more, to find new insights, new understanding, new meanings, new interpretations, different ways of looking at everything. I believe that this is a process that will continue throughout the remainder of my life.

 

There is the saying "Know thyself". I've found that this is not a very easy thing to do because I am not a constant. I'm always changing. I try to understand myself to the best of my ability, and I feel that I've become better at it over time, but will I ever truly know myself? I don't think it matters. I think it matters more that I do try and that I continue to become more comfortable with who I am, who I've been, and what I've done.

 

This is a safe space to wonder out loud about these things, but as others have cautioned it may be best to keep most of this to yourself. Once you do manage to find some meaning in it all you can share it with others bit by bit over time if you like, but you can never know what others might think of what you'll have to say. Some things are best written down and shared that way while assuming another identity. It's not uncommon for authors to share their work or their beliefs, particularly if they might go against societal norms or the status quo, by using a pseudonym instead of expressing themselves by using their real name. You can do that here, but you certainly don't have to. :)

 

On this, I take the opposite point of view. I feel I must say it all. Doing so here has lead me to incredible insights, that I likely wouldn't have had, or may have taken years to get to otherwise. I can't hold back. To do so feels to me like some kind of betrayal. There are a number of reasons. We're all here to help each other. And this really is our only safe space, so to speak. Well, places like this. For now, until finally on some great day when it becomes legal. Which will happen. During a trip I was granted a small vision that let me know that the time of the mushroom is dawning. It was just a huge mushroom with the sun barely peaking over the cap. And its true, lots of research is once again being done and more people than ever are using them.

 

But if we don't say what we've been through, then what help can you really hope to get? The mushrooms help but we do need each other as well. Take for example the golden teacher that comes down from on high to teach lessons to us lowly mortals. When that thing enters your mind, there are no secrets. Its all knowing, all seeing. Its laughable if someone ever thinks there's something about them that it doesn't know. So I choose to model after it as best I can. After all, what better role model exists?

 

And some of the things that I thought were the worst parts of me, that I must always hide, it dismissed as though they were nothing. Told me those things were to be expected when your body shares so much in common with a monkey. Mainly aggression, easily angered, tribal mentality, powerful sex drive, etc etc. I thought those were my failings. It said those are all par for the course, and just recognize what they are and you'll be fine. And that there are other things which are much more important to concern myself than those trivial things which I thought were so important. For me there has been too much secrecy. Too much obfuscation, too much confusion, too many lies. Time for all of that to end.



#17 Soliver

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:41 PM

 

 

I often feel half mad. Like some part of me is no longer sane.

 

 

...you have nothing to worry about.  Keep eating them at least every month, and that nagging sense of reality falling away from you will eventually fall away from you.

 

Trust me.

 

 

 

What dosages would you recommend taking them in every month? The small doses do seem to have something of a curative effect on me, for mental issues.

 

And could you elaborate on "newborn mental minority"? I think you're onto something there. Understanding is what I need. I think that is a big part of my problem, I do not understand what is happening.

 

 

"Newborn Mental Minority" = people who have cleared away the bullshit trappings of American life in the new millennium and realize there's ... just maybe ... something more meaningful than keeping up with the Kardashians and accruing followers on insta-ego.  If you've ever taken a picture of a beverage or a meal and then obsessively checked to see how many of who "liked" or commented or whatever on you magical choice of first-world problem, you're in the majority.  If your choice of beverage was a Pabst Blue Ribbon and you ordered it not because you like PBR (nothing wrong with a PBR) but for its ironic value, then you need to shave your beard and join the Hari-Krishnas or something - you're beyond hope ....  :)

 

One gram a month, generally upped with another gram or so after 90ish minutes seems to keep me sane without making me scream and run naked for the hills every time I go to a restaurant to find 95% of the patrons staring at their phones and the other 5% staring at one of the 30 flat-screen TV's. 

 

I'd like to dose more, but my current lifestyle doesn't make it easy.  Or, to rephrase, I haven't made more time to do so - I could / should, but I also don't like maintaining what I think of "massive grows" on a regular basis. 

 

Telling any / everyone that you now see the truth after dosing an illegal hallucinogen is the best possible way I can think of to lose friends and family and possibly end up alone and / or incarcerated.  Having your new truth and lifestyle outed only takes ONE asshole about 15 seconds in the era of social media, and I know plenty of folks who'd do it just for the 'likes,' even if they agree with you.

 

In the new world, an allegation that seems sorta likely rapidly becomes communal truth, whether it is or not. 

 

:)

 

soliver


Edited by Soliver, 29 December 2017 - 06:43 PM.

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#18 Guy1298

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:06 PM

I'm learning to be quiet about how I feel and think after a good trip. Silence is a good thing. 

 

It's subjective enough too that you can talk to someone who has used plenty of psychedelics and they won't understand what you're saying. Maybe they haven't used in years. They're tolerant, but they don't feel things like you are at the moment. And there are also people that can use psychedelics and never come to anything deeply ground-breaking. They might have it better though. 

 

And even though I try to step off the edge and conceive of the world as genuinely mind-made. I am rejective of a lot of particularly wild perspectives in and around psychedelics... I'm more and more of the opinion that the skilled psychedelic-user is well-grounded in reality and not unwilling to see bullshit in bullshit when bullshit should be seen. 


Edited by Guy1298, 29 December 2017 - 08:18 PM.

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#19 OysterFarmer

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 04:46 PM

I think a lot of that bullshit is about power and control like so many human interactions.  People telling you exactly how you should feel is actually the voice of someone who wants to control all their situations.  What can be more controlling than telling other people how to feel?


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#20 Marleyahu

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:06 PM

I think a lot of that bullshit is about power and control like so many human interactions.  People telling you exactly how you should feel is actually the voice of someone who wants to control all their situations.  What can be more controlling than telling other people how to feel?

 

I agree with this and hope that anything I have said hasn't come off as how you should feel because they are no more then the thoughts of how I feel. Regardless I still hope what I have said is something that can be related to by someone out there.






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