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What have I become?


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#21 OysterFarmer

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 04:49 PM

I certainly wasn't directing the comment at you.  I've seen it a lot though how people even more so now adays respond to your individual experience by saying things like "Well that's just your perception".  Its an incredibly ignorant and dismissive thing to say and yet its incredibly common.


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#22 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:19 PM

What if someone said, "well that's just your perception," and it wasn't at all taken in a personal way?    When anything thought or said is not met with a defense of a personal identity then there is no personal charge.   The us against the world stance is an elective position, as is the world against us.    It's just my perception that we can keep our blood pressure in check by not constantly wishing the world was free of perceived assholes.   Communications in a world made of the concepts of language based thought is a major remove from what's actually going on in the world that exists outside of our terms of such thought, what we could call, "what is."   Can we see the world without the weight of our nouns and adjectives?    I see that it's possible, because I have seen it so.   For me, it was a great lightening of my psychological load.   Just consider that the world is a much more peaceful place than the generally conditioned view of our trained minds.   Just thinking out loud here.   Nothing meant to be taken personally, eh what?



#23 OysterFarmer

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:32 PM

What if someone said, "well that's just your perception," and it wasn't at all taken in a personal way?    When anything thought or said is not met with a defense of a personal identity then there is no personal charge.   The us against the world stance is an elective position, as is the world against us.    It's just my perception that we can keep our blood pressure in check by not constantly wishing the world was free of perceived assholes.   Communications in a world made of the concepts of language based thought is a major remove from what's actually going on in the world that exists outside of our terms of such thought, what we could call, "what is."   Can we see the world without the weight of our nouns and adjectives?    I see that it's possible, because I have seen it so.   For me, it was a great lightening of my psychological load.   Just consider that the world is a much more peaceful place than the generally conditioned view of our trained minds.   Just thinking out loud here.   Nothing meant to be taken personally, eh what?

Well that's just your perception.


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#24 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

 

Well that's just your perception.

 

Nailed it!


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#25 OysterFarmer

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

True you don't have to take it personal and I don't.  But I also choose not to interact with people who take a dismissive approach to others selective feelings and observations.  It speaks of a very primitive mind I feel.  I see the phenomenon a lot in high stress toxic work environments.  Some psychotic co worker going off and you need to address the issue and co workers are "Well that's just your opinion"  because the environment has gotten so toxic and psychotic that no one wants to stick their neck out about anything anymore.



#26 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:13 PM

Out of context, I realize:

 

gallery_131808_1351_9487.jpg

 

 

gallery_131808_1351_6746.jpg

 

All right Dude; have it your way.



#27 Marleyahu

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

I think I'm picking up what your putting down @OysterFarmer . Everyone obviously has their own perception of things but pointing out and saying something like "Thats just your perception" instead of engaging in a conversation by representing your perception of it is just a kind of snobby way to respond to someone else's view.


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#28 OysterFarmer

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:36 PM

Yeah that's basically what I'm saying.  I've seen it a lot in bad workplaces. 


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#29 Marleyahu

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:39 PM

Anyways... Back to the question at hand. What HAS he become. What do you think you have become @bennylava ?



#30 Soliver

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:13 PM

I experienced a non-toxic workplace exactly once - I was self-employed for several years in the sprawling nationwide medical industry. 

 

Yet after four years of auto-employment, I came to the conclusion that my boss was a self-centered asshole with no actual grasp on the realities of the industry, no concrete goals or discernible skills, or any positive traits one would like to see in an immediate supervisor. 

 

Oh, and most of his ties were really, really ugly; he thought they were ironic and/or cute, but they were just plain ugly, and (like I said, he was an asshole) he simply refused to see it.  What a tool!

 

So I fired him and marched myself to the unemployment office, after which I drew unemployment for six months while pretending to find gainful employment in the same industry.  It didn't work, as I was actually making soap and reading all of Gabriel Garcia Marquez's novels in the kitchen while drinking an endless stream of Icehouse beer.  I mean, the checks kept coming, but the industry became a distant memory / blockhouse, and I created an alternate reality for myself.

 

That was a few realities ago.  It's good to switch up every few decades, I've found, otherwise I get bored and start making bad decisions.

 

So (in a roundabout way I'm on-thread here) - it's not what you're becoming, because (hopefully) you're constantly becoming. 

 

Otherwise shit would be seriously boring, no?  If your current "becoming" stage isn't what you want to see - well, to borrow an overly hackneyed phrase, "be the change you want to see in your blah blah blah." 

 

Hopefully that doesn't involve stacking expired teenage transexuals in your basement like cordwood, but if you end up making soap out of Alder, we'll all understand.

 

One love,

 

:)

 

soliver


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#31 Marleyahu

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:57 PM

Yet after four years of auto-employment, I came to the conclusion that my boss was a self-centered asshole with no actual grasp on the realities of the industry, no concrete goals or discernible skills, or any positive traits one would like to see in an immediate supervisor. 

 

Unfortunately that seems to be the case 9 times out of 10 doesn't it. I am currently dealing with the same situation in the machining industry. It seems inexplicably hard for me to take orders on how to do my job from a man who has never done my job a day in his life... Such is life though I guess.

 

 

That was a few realities ago.  It's good to switch up every few decades, I've found, otherwise I get bored and start making bad decisions.

 

So (in a roundabout way I'm on-thread here) - it's not what you're becoming, because (hopefully) you're constantly becoming. 

 

Otherwise shit would be seriously boring, no?  If your current "becoming" stage isn't what you want to see - well, to borrow an overly hackneyed phrase, "be the change you want to see in your blah blah blah." 

 

Hopefully that doesn't involve stacking expired teenage transexuals in your basement like cordwood, but if you end up making soap out of Alder, we'll all understand.

 

I don't particularly try to change my job up as you did, I actually enjoy my job aside from my asshat of a supervisor. I do find myself constantly picking up new hobbies though. The other ones don't ever disappear they just don't get done as much. Gardening and mushroom growing have seemed to become my big ones though. I don't know what it is about them, there are just so many things to do with these 2 hobbies it seems that it never gets boring. 

 

I like the way you described this though. "It's not what your becoming because hopefully your constantly becoming". Very well put. It seems for me I am just constantly trying to become a jack of all trades.


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#32 bennylava

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:49 PM



"Newborn Mental Minority" = people who have cleared away the bullshit trappings of American life in the new millennium and realize there's ... just maybe ... something more meaningful than keeping up with the Kardashians and accruing followers on insta-ego. If you've ever taken a picture of a beverage or a meal and then obsessively checked to see how many of who "liked" or commented or whatever on you magical choice of first-world problem, you're in the majority. If your choice of beverage was a Pabst Blue Ribbon and you ordered it not because you like PBR (nothing wrong with a PBR) but for its ironic value, then you need to shave your beard and join the Hari-Krishnas or something - you're beyond hope .... :)

One gram a month, generally upped with another gram or so after 90ish minutes seems to keep me sane without making me scream and run naked for the hills every time I go to a restaurant to find 95% of the patrons staring at their phones and the other 5% staring at one of the 30 flat-screen TV's.

I'd like to dose more, but my current lifestyle doesn't make it easy. Or, to rephrase, I haven't made more time to do so - I could / should, but I also don't like maintaining what I think of "massive grows" on a regular basis.

Telling any / everyone that you now see the truth after dosing an illegal hallucinogen is the best possible way I can think of to lose friends and family and possibly end up alone and / or incarcerated. Having your new truth and lifestyle outed only takes ONE asshole about 15 seconds in the era of social media, and I know plenty of folks who'd do it just for the 'likes,' even if they agree with you.

In the new world, an allegation that seems sorta likely rapidly becomes communal truth, whether it is or not.

:)

soliver



To clarify I don't go ranting and raving this stuff to the 4 corners of the earth. I was just talking about here, and with a few close friends who also trip from time to time. They're cool. -hahahahah

Anyways... Back to the question at hand. What HAS he become. What do you think you have become @bennylava ?



No.. no ... no... I was just getting over this lol.

j/k

Anyway to answer the question, I wish I knew. If I had to hazard a guess, I've become a much more empathic person to other people's moods, and indeed what they should do to solve their problems. And I NEVER used to care about that. I had a meanness about me, where I'd laugh at their problems and the stupidity that it must take to have those problems. (not in front of them). No longer. That guy was quite an ass.

So I guess I've become a better human being. And a stranger one. I was always weird, but now I'm real weird. But somehow nobody can tell. They just think I'm "normal" weird. I know that doesn't make any sense. I connect with people much better now. Social anxiety is a thing of the past. I just have to be careful not to tie my brain in knots. Its a real risk for me. Also I could have done without the subsequent panic attacks. I had one several days ago that I could feel in my chest. Although somehow, I know that it wasn't physical. It was an "emotional" feeling in my chest. Just a little reminder not to go back to high dosages. At least not with cubes, after I've gained some knowledge that they're kind of known to be somewhat "meaner" than many others. If I ever do go big again, it will be on the ones that are somewhat known to be "nicer" than others.

If it happens again I may become enraged at my ego for telling me to kill myself. That is definitely not who I am, I am neither suicidal nor depressed. I've had about enough of that shit from whatever is telling me to do that, and I'll be seeking to get my hands around its neck next time. Sounds kind of angry/violent, but whatever it is could use a good throttling.

Edited by bennylava, 05 January 2018 - 02:52 PM.

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#33 Guy1298

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:53 AM

I find it important to lay down some intentions before a trip. In particular, I make it known that I love this world and everyone in it, love God (or whatever), etc. And I make it known that I don't want to die, etc., etc. I find it an important thing to lay down. Because I've been there a couple times when I fully made the decision to kill myself on a trip. It hasn't happened yet (though I have thought it happened a few times), but the feelings and freedom when you're mind lets go of life completely and sees something else and trusts it... in that death can look enticing. But, don't be fooled. If in death there is God (or whatever), just so there is God (or whatever) here. Of course, you're situation is probably different. I'm just saying, be clear about that, and you might find that it doesn't arise.


Edited by Guy1298, 06 January 2018 - 01:56 AM.

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#34 Marleyahu

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:58 AM

It's so weird for me to see this from the other end of the spectrum. Mushrooms are something that helped me to get over my depression and my want to just end it. But then I hear you guys talking about the exact opposite and wanting to do it while on them. I have never had that feeling whIle on them. (knock on wood) I hope I never do because the feelings I already have normally would probably just help to encourage that to happen. I always find that my trips make me realize that this life is beautiful and I don't want to take myself out of the only chance I have at it.
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#35 Guy1298

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:10 AM

I suppose for me death isn't an end... from the trip, it's looks like a movement forward, letting go of oneself completely, full relief. It's not necessarily because I'm miserable or depressed during the trip.

 

Could just be a delusional state. In any case, I'm careful about it. 


Edited by Guy1298, 06 January 2018 - 02:14 AM.

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#36 Marleyahu

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:21 AM

I guess it depends on your thought process about it. There is just too much to question in death for me to view it as a new beginning. That's why I just view it as an end and it is still very appealing. That's why I hope I never have one of these trips. If I were to find it as an end as well as a new begjning I would likely do it even if I was being careful about it.

I haven't had thoughts like this in many year though so I would probably be OK now even if I did come to that conclusion or realization if it truly is a new begining. I think I have the woman in my life to thank for that. I now have something to live for that helps me to make things better in our life instead of always almost helping things get worse and become more negative like I used to. Either way I still hope that I never think that during one of my trips. Might be the first time I actually have a bad trip if I do.
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#37 Alder Logs

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:13 AM

Try to see what it is that has an urge to die.  

 

I spent a very large part of this lifetime hating myself, to the point of drinking myself to oblivion.   At age 23 or thereabouts, I ate my first acid and saw something beautiful in myself.    I had gotten out of the self image of the learning disabled misfit extrovert who was trying to get a reflection of identity he found pleasing.   Yes I came down off the acid, and attempted to integrate what had been an ego death back into my ego life.   So, while I was effectively cured of my urge to drink myself into oblivion, I still had the baggage of ego identity with the memory of the misfit outcast.   

 

That identity drove an idiotic and addictive craving to be not just a better person, but to be a perfect person.   I still harbored suicidal images which jumped up in my imagination every time I reflected in thought about some action I remembered which fell short of the perfect human being I was insisting my persona to be.    So, who was it that wanted the life to end?   Was it my true self, or was it the self as an image, held in identity?    Where did that made up self see itself as being?   I will tell you; it was between the ears and behind the eyes.   The suicide image that repeated in mind from my mid teens to my mid sixties was of me putting a pistol to my head and shooting the imagined self hiding in there.

 

That identity was a frightened little creature in my head.   To tell the truth, that little prick needed to die, as long as it believed it was actually a thing.   Putting it differently, its virtual life needed to end.    How does something that doesn't exist come to its end?   It is seen to not be real.   Then the question of killing it simply drops.   All the mushroom trips certainly helped keep me from taking a real pistol and shooting that virtual person to virtual death, taking the physical body and its thinking capacity with it.    That head and body would have been killed in a true case of mistaken identity.

 

Who is the identity now associated with that body that here types these words now?    Nobody!    How could he stop being a nobody?   By making up some new virtual existence, and though it could be the best one yet, it would be just as much of a bullshit story as all its predecessors.    I say 'all' because the ego selves were a constantly changing story all through the years.   The story was of course seen as the true story, but it was a situational truth.   What kind of truth is that?   That ego is the quintessential politician.   

 

What have I become?   Nothing.    If I think about anything I might see in the moment as what I am, really think about it, it's bullshit, and I  am not that.  I see the judge of true and false, and it itself is false.   Only the seeing is true.   What can I say of the seeing, as the seer?   It has no attributes, for the seer is not the seeing either.   The seeing depends on something prior to it.   Faster than time, it is.  No instant available for a thought of it.   And yet, It is.  

 

As nothing, I can be.   The No Thing became the one, the two, the three, and the ten thousand things.   They have their being which starts and ends in the seeing we all share.    When we arise as some thing, we name the other things, see them come into being and leave.   When we believe ourselves to be a thing, only things are believed to be real.    Nothing will escape the grasp and be shunned as non-being.     No wonder the sage laughs.   


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#38 bennylava

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:03 PM


What have I become?   Nothing.    If I think about anything I might see in the moment as what I am, really think about it, it's bullshit, and I  am not that.  I see the judge of true and false, and it itself is false.   Only the seeing is true.   What can I say of the seeing, as the seer?   It has no attributes, for the seer is not the seeing either.   The seeing depends on something prior to it.   Faster than time, it is.  No instant available for a thought of it.   And yet, It is.  

 

 

 

 

Makes me think of what the mushroom voice was telling me: "You will be whatever you choose to be." So if you choose to be a frightened child, you will be a frightened child. But if you choose to be a courageous adult who wins through, then you will be a courageous adult who wins through. Its like a decision that has to be made. I had to decide that what I would be.

 

If I had never read about the trips where a handful of people had killed themselves, I may never have had any issue. It was a fear in me. A fear of the unknown. I imagine that without having ever heard about that, I may have just given in to pure fear and bolted off running down the street. In an effort to find somewhere to hide. Obviously there is nowhere to really hide, but as you all know that makes little difference to someone in the throes of psychedellics. They'll seek whatever they seek regardless of any plausibility of the desired outcome. I also think that it may have been some form of a test. Like it went around trying to find a weak spot, where it could latch on and tear. It couldn't find anything else I'd be afraid of. I have a somewhat warrior mentality and as such if it offered anything else, I'd just want to fight. And, I'd likely even enjoy the fighting. But it found the weakness, in the fear of harming myself. How do you fight yourself? Nothing to beat on there. Nothing to aim your aggression and anger at. Nothing to attack.

 

Even during the trip I didn't want to kill myself, but I was being told to by some voice. Saying that I had to. That I'd basically already done it, and that all I needed to really do is just complete the act. Sheer stubbornness and enacting a pre designed plan helped me through it. I stuffed down a bunch of food, which will pretty much kill my lower dosage trips. Put on some very calming music, and began talking to people in tripsit chat. The fear still came in waves, but it was at least limited to those waves. If I didn't have anyone to talk to, then there would have been no waves of relief and comfort. Only solid fear. Stress was through the roof. Heart was pounding and I was pouring sweat. Worst day of my life, bar none. Any other bad day is a distant second. I'll be able to say, at least its not like that time where I was like "I think I'm starting to get the fear" - Fear and Loathing in Las Vagas

 

And I really wish I knew exactly what it was all about. If I ever fully understood it, and just knew that I knew that I knew, I seriously doubt it could happen to me again. You know what they say about knowledge being the antidote to fear, and knowledge killing fear. To name a thing, and all that. If I could put a name on it, label it, it would diminish its power. If it came back I could at least say, "I know your name and I know what you're about". Which may lead to a shift in my mind, which wasn't one where I was feeling the fear. I am convinced that there is a lesson in all this somewhere. That I was being tested, or being taught something by this horrific ordeal. Just have to find out what.


Edited by bennylava, 06 January 2018 - 02:19 PM.


#39 Guy1298

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:41 PM

I have gradually been getting better at recognizing my panic and fear. On the come down, I'll notice my resistance, and I'll notice this is the place where I'd been taken before by fear, etc. And I'll listen, my heart is racing a thousand miles an hour. I do trust the spirit in the mushroom even if I resist it, there is nothing to fear. Instead I focus on my heartbeat and I coach myself slowly out of a potential spiral. As soon as I recognize and focus on my heartbeat I relax. It's that panic reaction that has been the figurative death of me not in a good way.

 

But, my trust isn't as deep as it should be, nor is my respect. It might be the panic is a response to trying to get off too soon. Last night's trip taught me 3 hours demands attention. I wanted to chill after 2 hours, but there was still more to learn and I suppose there isn't enough respect for the event taking place if I just want to relax. Who knows? I noticed too that a lot of my fear and awkward feelings in mushrooms during visions and what-not are literal tests set up to see if I can see through them. When I see through them I move on, into deeper experience. 

 

Should note there are aspects of your experience that are far different from mine. No voices telling me to kill myself. If I found something like that I'd hang out at low doses too. But, it might also be something you were meant to learn, so that you won't fall into it again. I'll never come into a high dose with the sort of insecurity and negativity as I had on that trip (from awhile back) where I felt that I became something suicidal and devilish. Maybe the voices telling you to kill yourself are mushrooms asking for deeper respect and preparation? More loving-kindness and maybe a little skepticism... I've always found that mushrooms will fuck with me, I will feel feelings and understand things that don't correspond with reality. You want the messages to be grand, true, and beautiful because they feel grand, true, and beautiful. But, maybe sometimes it's just wishful thinking and it's worth seeing through the message even when apparently in the face of something God-like. 

 

Just my thoughts. I won't use large doses anymore, seemingly. Especially since 1.5g with meditation can be more intense than anything I've ever experienced. I have a feeling I will always be a low dose mushroom-user. I think If I'm going to go deep, I'll do it with ayahuasca and a shaman. 


Edited by Guy1298, 06 January 2018 - 08:20 PM.


#40 Soliver

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:55 PM

Who is the identity now associated with that body that here types these words now?    Nobody!    How could he stop being a nobody?   By making up some new virtual existence, and though it could be the best one yet, it would be just as much of a bullshit story as all its predecessors.    I say 'all' because the ego selves were a constantly changing story all through the years.   The story was of course seen as the true story, but it was a situational truth.   What kind of truth is that?   That ego is the quintessential politician.   
 

 

Attached File  On Bullshit.pdf   109.6KB   31 downloads

 

 

My friend Harry Frankfurt of Princeton wrote an important essay about bullshit.  It's a good read, if anyone has a moment.

 

:)

 

soliver






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