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McKenna's Stoned Ape theory


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#21 Sweezi

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 06:18 AM

I don't necessarily disagree and I'm not saying it's beyond the realm of possibility but context is missing. McKenna essentially put it out as fact that "increased visual acuity" is a definite result of ingestion and in a way that is evolutionarily beneficial. Fischer's paper just does not back this up. Seriously, how many people who make this claim have ever read the paper? Or critiques of McKenna's claims based on the paper? I know which side of 1% my guess falls on.

You do make a good point tbh, there should definitely be more research into it; and you we could literally do it for free take a few people, give them an object to identify at a certain range and test sober against low dose of shooms...

And I've never read that paper I just know the outlines of it, I'm gonna investigate xD

Tbh it's good to see someone who stands by their views and not falls into conformity

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#22 August West

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:24 AM

I don't necessarily disagree and I'm not saying it's beyond the realm of possibility but context is missing. McKenna essentially put it out as fact that "increased visual acuity" is a definite result of ingestion and in a way that is evolutionarily beneficial. Fischer's paper just does not back this up. Seriously, how many people who make this claim have ever read the paper? Or critiques of McKenna's claims based on the paper? I know which side of 1% my guess falls on.

...take a few people, give them an object to identify at a certain range and test sober against low dose of shooms...

There's a lot of context missing from this experiment. Among other things, you'd need to be hunting mega fauna and participating in other activities that would confer evolutionary benefits.

#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:57 PM

Mushrooms could also take us beyond the us-and-them mentality and perhaps create a different relationship between man and beast.  I used to hunt, and I had a good kill, where I experienced a deer giving itself to me, and a final 'bad' kill, where I found myself taking what was not given.  That was a major step on my way to being mostly vegetarian.   The 'good' kill involved a dreaming of the animal and in the dream, seeing exactly where it was, waking, dressing, and heading out to the exact spot where the deer was.   It was a cold winter and we were nearly broke, and in need of food.   The other experience was strictly from my mind, and was a hard lesson for me.    I woke up and had the thought, I think I will go get a deer.   There was no need.   I just wanted to do it.    Nothing about doing it felt right, and there were details I won't go into that made it clear I had no business doing what I did.

 

Before that, when my awareness was still heavily shaped by my growing up experience in the L.A. burbs, back when I first landed in rural SW Washington State, I fell in with a sport hunter, and under his influence, sought to shoot crows, as they were considered worthless, except as target practice.   And even before that, in the So.Cal. deserts and mountains, I did as my father had taught me, I killed rattle snakes, after going into their territory and hunting them to their deaths.   Both of those things taught me to stop doing them, as I slowly heeded my heart's demands. 

 

Our aware hearts are made more available to us with our mushroom sacraments.  At least that's the way I have seen it.  The magic side of living this life comes closer, and it's not just a meat machine that can see better.



#24 August West

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 01:30 AM

However, in McKenna's context, if mushrooms made one a vegetarian, then I imagine hunter/gatherers would've starved, either through lack of calories or lack of nutrition. I would tend to believe the idea that they wouldn't have needed mushrooms to have a different relationship with beasts, as you say. Their reverence would have come through living in relatively close quarters, sharing similar environments, walking a similarly precarious line of life and death and understanding the connection between the animal's death and the life it conferred upon the hunter and his people.

 

I don't understand hunting for sport but, even putting that, aside, a clean shot from a hunter is going to be about as "peaceful" (a presumably human concept anyway) of death that any wild beast will have. It's not as if without hunting wild animals die in their beds surrounded by loved ones. Their lives are short and deaths are typically brutal - whether through starvation, predator or some other means. 



#25 Alder Logs

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:50 AM

I would have to call that first deer I killed a shamanic kind of experience.   If I have had one of these without an entheogen directly involved in my early life, that was the one.   Whatever mushrooms' affect on the development of the species, they are central to many shamanic lines of evolution.    Shamans were frequently consultants to the hunt.   Just sayin' that beyond the details of McKenna's thinking, I would not be surprised if there isn't something to it by some means.   Anyway, it's always been a good story, and this was Terence's forte. 


Edited by Alder Logs, 07 March 2018 - 09:54 AM.

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#26 Harpua

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 03:30 PM

I had a “bad trip” 18 years ago and still have not eaten meat since. I guess it actually turned out to be a good trip cause I wouldn’t change a thing.
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#27 Gladjeflicka

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:39 AM

I'm not sure if I can articulate this well enough to do it justice but, I have been microdosing for almost 2 years. I have been recently listening to a TON of McKenna. And Watts. When I heard him talk about visual acuity I was actually relieved because it explained why I was seeing things so much clearer. I had been noticing all sorts of things, actually. I began to check with others if I was correct in what I was seeing, I was worried maybe I was accidentally taking more than I thought. But, i know I'm not. In fact, I'm likely taking less than the usual. I'm overly careful sometimes. But, my visual acuity is most definitely effected. And my connection to nature and its movements and subtleties has certainly intensified.
McKenna is not any sort of fraud and had mention tests having been done that confirm it.i personally believe it's got to be part of your regular diet to really be noticable.

#28 jkdeth

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 02:31 AM

Pertaining to visual acuity, I've never really noticed any difference with mushrooms. The reason I know that I haven't, is because I do have greatly enhanced visual acuity on lsd.

#29 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 10:05 AM

Pertaining to visual acuity, I've never really noticed any difference with mushrooms. The reason I know that I haven't, is because I do have greatly enhanced visual acuity on lsd.

 

To me, LSD has a more "Crystally" or even "Crinkly" (like that colored cellophane) feeling and visual sense, whilst shrooms have a more "rounded", soft (like boobies!) feeling and visual sense. 



#30 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 10:09 AM

Well, if one thinks of microdosing in terms of homeopathic dosages, some affects could actually be heightened.  






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